Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is the program bringing
you up-to-date news, views
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and discussion on
religious liberty events
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around the world
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and in the United
States on occasion.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Kim Peckham
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and you are a
man of many talents
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but I will at least
pin you down by saying
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that you've carried
the communications function
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at the Review and
Herald Publishing Association,
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near where I live in
Hagerstown, Maryland.
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An institution that
we may talk about later,
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that's in transition.
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Let's say. Let's say that.
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Well, Kim, let's
talk about things
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and I will go back to one
of your earliest involvements
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with Liberty Magazine.
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You've got many skills
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and one of them
you could visualize
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and put together some great
promotional material on video
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and I needed help one
year in putting together
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that is Liberty
promotional video.
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I don't make to many pretensions
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because they can't be fulfilled
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but I had filmed myself
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interviewing
Pastor Anthony Alexander
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who had been released
from jail in Sri Lanka
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on terrorism changers,
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then done some rowing footage
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and I wanted you to
make it a great video.
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Yeah, we put
together the pieces on that.
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I remember you were part of it,
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you focused on America's
dedication to religious liberty
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from the earliest, earliest days
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we went down there to the
Jefferson Memorial in D.C.
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and did some
shots down there and--
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I had forgotten that.
I see its coming back.
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Yeah, of course,
that I forgotten too
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and then you had
that great story.
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What was the-- remind me,
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that's the part I
forgotten was a story--
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Well, Pastor
Alexander and I've mentioned it
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recently even in some
sermons as I traveled around.
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So wonderful story started
off very badly in Sri Lanka
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at that time
country driven by civil war
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and in my mind I'm says my
age as I think of Sri Lanka
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as Ceylon that it's a
country in the modern ear
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fell into civil war
between the Buddhist
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and the Hindus
and two ethnic groups
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and the Guerrillas
the Tamil Tiger Guerrillas
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had actually attacked
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the capital of
Colombo at one point.
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They destroyed jetliners at
the airport, terrific thing.
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And here Seventh-day Adventists
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and in particular
this Seventh-day Adventist
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teacher and
pastor Anthony Alexander
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was teaching at
a boarding school
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in the middle of the civil war.
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One of his student
came from the outlying area,
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the government
identified the student
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as actually a member of
the Tamil Tiger Guerrillas
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and here a Christian
teaching a Tamil Tiger
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he must be part
of the same thing
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and he was arrested
and charged with terrorism
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and this was before 9/11.
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So what was he
upshot with this pastor?
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Well, the upshot
took a while to shoot
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but at least two
years as I remember
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his trial dragged on,
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our lawyers and others
went across and met with the--
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well, they usually just
sat and caught and listen
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but they came
back very depressed
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that they
thought if he was lucky
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he wouldn't get
the death penalty
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but that was the risk.
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He was in jail all that
time and just when we thought
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that it was last
without any warning
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he was suddenly
released pending a further trial
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and he was spirited to the US
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and he has finished his--
continued his ministry there
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but we say God's leading
in his providential release
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but the context was horrible.
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Before 9/11 for
a Christian teacher
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in another country doing
what God had called him to do,
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not middling in politics at
all here accused of terrorism.
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Well, it seems like often
the ideas of religious liberty
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get caught up
in politics lately.
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Well, nearly always.
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The two things you don't talk
about are religion and politics
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and when you are
talking religious liberty
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it does involve those things.
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So they assumed it
because he was teaching
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he who had a political interest
in the Tamil Tigers then.
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Yes, and very often
Christian missionaries,
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particularly those
coming from the United States
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they seen as
agents of imperialism
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or the opposition.
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So there is
baggage to the situation
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even if that person
is very squeaky clean
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and purely biblically
based and mission oriented.
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It's a difficult situation.
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But to say you put that
video together, right, remember?
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I do, I know, its all
bits that are coming back.
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And as I was telling
you before the program
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it obviously
worked because of any--
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I was gonna say promotional
but that sort of a crossword
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but if any informational video
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that we had and
we do want to air
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at least that one
got the best response.
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It connected with our
donors in a very efficient way.
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Have you speculated
on why that was because--
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I think it because
you put it together.
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Well, I'm glad.
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Let's, let's go
with that by all means
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but I mean its almost surprising
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because here is a situation
on the other side of the world
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and why would that
connect with your people
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who are mostly in North America.
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Why would they say,
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you know, any identify
with this poor man over--
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Now I'm getting the
benefit on the video.
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We have a whole
spectrum of materials
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during that time of the
year, the video was one element.
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I think another visual element
we had I was sure and a poster
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that we sent out
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mostly to
Seventh-day Adventist churches
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and that poster showed a
young girl behind a mess,
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screen sort of
a barbwire screen.
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And I do know,
you know this too,
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you sort of go through
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an emotional contact with people
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when you use young
children and animals.
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Right?
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Yeah, so the next year
we will use a puppy dog.
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I keep telling our people to
do that but we haven't featured
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but next year our
video will feature a dog
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that was forbidden
to go to the kennels
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on Sabbath I think.
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Silly dog. That's silly.
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We-- now it is
very serious stuff
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but at the same time as
you know it's our obligation
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as stewards and
custodians of the care
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in this case of the
magazine and the message.
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You know, we want
to maximize the effect
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and put it in a way
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that's emotionally
appealing to people
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and I think it was
something about that story
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and the visuals that
came with it that did connect
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and I'm always looking for that.
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And our latest
issue of Liberty Magazine
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has on the cover
a refugee fleeing
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from the
murderer's intent of ISIL,
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this terrorist Jihadi group in--
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from Syria coming into Iraq.
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And, you know, I think
that that should appeal
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to people the same way.
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Now I think you were
telling me this several days ago
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that their policy is
almost religious cleansing
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that they are--
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No, it's not always it is.
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And yeah, we may even
have a whole discussion on that
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but, yes, its worth remembering
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for those that are
watching this program
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and I hope it is
not too longer leg
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between us filming
it and it going out
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but things are not
likely to change much
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but it's only a few weeks
ago now that the city of Mosul
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and as I remember
that's the second largest city
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in Iraq was over
run by this group
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and there were
many Christians in Mosul
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and many other religious
minorities other than Muslims
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and all of them were rounded up,
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all of them were threatened.
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Christians immediately
were told that they must wear,
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it was a funny
letter and I don't know why?
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I think it was
an "M" like the star
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of David in Hitler's Germany.
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They had to wear that.
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They were told that, that
they had a choice initially
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of convert to Islam
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or pay the demi,
the religious tax
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but within a few hours
not have been the same day
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then it was harden to, you
become a Muslim or you die.
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And those that didn't
immediately flee were killed
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and many thousands of
Christians were killed.
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There are no Christian
in Mosul anymore, none.
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There is the
points you covered there
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it's so reminiscent
like the middle ages
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where those who were
dissenting with the main church
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were actually had to wear a
yellow cross on their clothes
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and were
sometimes outright killed
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if they didn't get and run.
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And I've said this
on this program before
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and I don't think
this program can be accused
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of being of excusing
these sort of things,
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particularly at the
moment with Jihadi's
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and so called radical
of fundamentalists Islamism
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but in the bigger context
we know that many religions
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and certainly Christianity
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in the middle ages
of acted similarly.
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This is why we need Liberty
Magazine and religious freedom
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because the natural tendency
of monolithic religious society
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is to persecute the opposition.
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Yeah, I'm always proud
of Liberty that it functions
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or like to keep
that in our minds,
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you know, a sort
of like you may say,
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well, we don't
really need police
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because everyone in
my neighborhood is nice.
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But there is always
this sort of this reminder
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that there is this standard
that we need to be aware of
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and that needs to be-- we
need to be reminded of it,
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protect it even though right now
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sometimes it doesn't--it seems
like are long way from ISIL
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right now in that situation.
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Well, this is turning
into a discussion of ISIL.
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So I will tell you
but I wrote an editorial
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and that's just come
out in our current issue
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for the beginning of 2015
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and I had to comment on it.
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You can turn on your
TV almost any day now
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and there will be
something on ISIL.
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It's the talk of the town.
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Yes.
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But an aspect that I
thought needed to be brought out
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and it is discussed now
but at that time it was latent.
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Was the idea that here is
a group in coming from Syria
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or into Iraq they call
the Islamic State of Syria
00:11:04.53\00:11:11.50
and Iraq or the Islamic
State of Syria and the Levant
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which is the area
between Turkey and Egypt
00:11:17.24\00:11:22.21
or as the Bible puts
it the glorious land,
00:11:22.24\00:11:25.25
that's the holy land.
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So that's their claim but
there is lot of discussion
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and dismay about it.
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I noticed the Pope of
Rome even deviated a little
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from the calls for peace
00:11:35.76\00:11:37.33
and restraint and he said
00:11:37.36\00:11:40.53
that they needed to be
attacked which is interesting.
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And I thought in a curious way,
no ones much remarked on it,
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that's not dissimilar
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from I think Pope Urban
00:11:47.67\00:11:49.60
declaring the
crusades, you know.
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Heaven demands it said,
Urban, you know, go there.
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So there whole civilized,
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quite civilized
world is confronted by this
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but what I believe
is the real danger.
00:12:00.48\00:12:02.95
It's not what
they're doing there
00:12:02.98\00:12:04.32
which is just
stabilizing to the error
00:12:04.35\00:12:06.62
and probably never
has a chance of becoming
00:12:06.65\00:12:11.39
the global
caliphate that they demand.
00:12:11.43\00:12:13.93
But it can change the
map of the Middle East.
00:12:13.96\00:12:16.87
But the real danger is
the young men and women
00:12:16.90\00:12:20.94
who are fighting there,
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they come from your neighborhood
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and my neighborhood.
00:12:24.47\00:12:25.81
They might even be
someone from Hagerstown there.
00:12:25.84\00:12:28.34
Are you sure?
00:12:28.38\00:12:29.71
I'm not sure about Hagerstown
but it's not impossible.
00:12:29.74\00:12:33.52
It's already been noted
that these beheading videos,
00:12:33.55\00:12:37.82
so far there are
nearly always a person
00:12:37.85\00:12:39.75
with an English accent.
00:12:39.79\00:12:41.12
They seem like they come
from booming endless of world.
00:12:41.16\00:12:43.22
Yes.
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They are not locals,
00:12:44.66\00:12:46.90
these are Islamic
fundamentalist adventurers,
00:12:46.93\00:12:51.20
young people
usually from Australia,
00:12:51.23\00:12:53.84
from Canada, from
England, from the US, Germany,
00:12:53.87\00:12:59.27
all throughout Europe.
00:12:59.31\00:13:01.28
They've been
recruited from allover.
00:13:01.31\00:13:03.01
Now I went and looked online
00:13:03.04\00:13:04.98
and did some research on ISIL
00:13:05.01\00:13:07.72
and they don't
really know the number
00:13:07.75\00:13:10.05
but it's a time they
were gathering figures,
00:13:10.09\00:13:12.19
they were guessing
maybe 15,000 of them
00:13:12.22\00:13:14.82
and 7,000 of them
were Saudi Arabians
00:13:14.86\00:13:17.13
which should tell something
00:13:17.16\00:13:19.83
but the overwhelming
this is the largest group
00:13:19.86\00:13:23.20
but beyond that there
were a couple of hundred,
00:13:23.23\00:13:26.13
five of six hundred
from the US I think,
00:13:26.17\00:13:28.20
from all over
the major countries.
00:13:28.24\00:13:30.97
Now they are there now
00:13:31.01\00:13:34.11
and unless the
bombing kills all of them
00:13:34.14\00:13:36.08
they will come
back just as soldiers
00:13:36.11\00:13:38.61
come back from all wars.
00:13:38.65\00:13:40.12
They will come back with
clearly a very radical agenda.
00:13:40.15\00:13:44.15
They will come back
with military training.
00:13:44.19\00:13:45.92
They will come back
with unresolved antagonisms
00:13:45.95\00:13:49.96
toward the west and
the religions of the west
00:13:49.99\00:13:53.76
something will happen.
00:13:53.80\00:13:55.20
Not to mention the
appeals that are being put out
00:13:55.23\00:13:58.23
on the internet
too our neighborhoods
00:13:58.27\00:14:00.90
and many of those young
people can't or won't go
00:14:00.94\00:14:04.54
but they share those attitudes
00:14:04.57\00:14:06.37
and so I wrote this.
00:14:06.41\00:14:07.74
I said, this is the danger.
00:14:07.78\00:14:09.64
It will put religious
liberty under severe stress.
00:14:09.68\00:14:12.25
How the
authorities going to deal
00:14:12.28\00:14:14.55
with this up bubbling of
violence in our community
00:14:14.58\00:14:18.15
from these Jihadi's?
00:14:18.19\00:14:21.22
Is my neighborhood
00:14:21.26\00:14:23.93
and are the so
called civilized countries
00:14:23.96\00:14:26.93
going to have the patience
to root them out one at a time
00:14:26.96\00:14:31.20
or will there be some blanket
00:14:31.23\00:14:33.40
prohibition of the
whole class of people
00:14:33.44\00:14:35.67
or a class of
religious thinking?
00:14:35.70\00:14:38.37
Because there has
been a shift since 9/11
00:14:38.41\00:14:42.61
to saying
fundamentalism is dangerous
00:14:42.64\00:14:45.11
whether it's
Christianity or Islam.
00:14:45.15\00:14:46.75
It's called extremism
00:14:46.78\00:14:48.12
as how so is
referred to, extremism.
00:14:48.15\00:14:50.12
Extremism.
00:14:50.15\00:14:51.49
So if you're
religious but you don't--
00:14:51.52\00:14:54.99
not too serious about it
00:14:55.02\00:14:56.39
you are okay
but if your religion
00:14:56.42\00:14:59.16
is central to your life,
00:14:59.19\00:15:00.53
you are seen as
potentially dangerous.
00:15:00.56\00:15:01.90
Exactly, that seems to be
00:15:01.93\00:15:03.26
that to the picture
that's been painted here,
00:15:03.30\00:15:04.83
if you care about religion
you are somehow dangerous
00:15:04.87\00:15:08.24
and if you just
don't take it too seriously
00:15:08.27\00:15:11.07
then you are
welcome in our area.
00:15:11.11\00:15:13.98
Yeah, so how would
you communicate this
00:15:14.01\00:15:16.64
if you had to do a
video of this sort of thing?
00:15:16.68\00:15:19.31
What's the image that we should,
00:15:19.35\00:15:21.32
that we should seize upon?
00:15:21.35\00:15:24.62
Sorry, I'll give you a
moment to think about it.
00:15:24.65\00:15:26.65
Let's-- we'll
come back after a break
00:15:26.69\00:15:29.12
and continue this program.
00:15:29.16\00:15:30.49
So stay with us
for this discussion.
00:15:30.53\00:15:32.33