Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program bringing
you discussion, news, updates
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and analysis of
religious liberty
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Charles Mills.
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As we were just
joking a producer
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of TV programs on occasion
but for Liberty Magazine
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you are the co-host
of our radio program.
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And welcome to
this program. Thank you.
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Thank you very much.
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I want to talk a little
bit of at your background.
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And I title this PK in ME
and few people in this studio--
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Might want to
explain that one, yes.
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Probably for that.
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In our church
there's lot of joking
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about PK as Preacher's Kids.
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Preacher's Kids, yes.
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You and I are
both in that character,
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usually PK is known for being
trouble makers in high school
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and running the gaunt
look to becoming a pastor
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themselves later often
but embarrassing themselves
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and many other
people on the way.
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You haven't done
that-- Thank you.
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And the ME is the
Middle East. Middle East.
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Because I know a little
bit about your life story
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and you are the child
of missionary parents.
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Yes.
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Some amazing stories
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but the Middle East
is where I want to end up
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but even when you were younger,
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what was one of
your earliest memories?
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You told me
yesterday and I thought
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this is an amazing story.
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I probably can safely
say that I'm the only person
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possibly in our
viewing audiences
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and in the studio for sure,
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who had Douglas
McArthur blow his house up.
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This actually
happened we were living in--
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If Douglas
McArthur had have his way
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to blowing everyone house up.
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Everyone's house up, yeah.
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And everyone that
dropped the atomic bomb on--
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Exactly, luckily it was
the smaller bomb on this one.
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But I was born in Korea,
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and so Korea right
before the Korean War
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and we were
evacuated very exciting story,
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and my mom and my brothers
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and I were put
on a fertilizer ship
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undercover of
circling American airplanes
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sent to Japan for safety
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This was while
the North Koreans--
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North Koreans were
on-- Danish invaded.
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We could hear, they
could hear the gunshots
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on the other side of Seoul
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as we were leaving
the other side of Seoul,
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so that's how close they were.
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But Douglas
McArthur did not want
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any of the
better houses in Seoul
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to be falling into enemy hands
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and our houses--
those simple, very simple
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in the compound there at Seoul.
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He ordered them blown up
so they-- Americans went in
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and blew up everybody's house
and so my house was blown up.
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My dad has a
picture of the shell
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that blew it up
and the house in--
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so anyway kind of, kind
of a unique thing to say
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that McArthur blew the house.
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They blew your house up.
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But anyway, what
you're looking for here
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is my time in the Middle East
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and that
happened in 1966 to 1970.
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I took two years of high school
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there in Home
Study International
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and one year Middle East College
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now Middle East University.
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And it was a unique
experience to live in a country
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where you, I was
the religious minority,
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Seventh-day
Adventist Christian there
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you could not get further away
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than that from a lot of,
a lot of the religion there.
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And the experience
taught me something
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that I think is
very, very important.
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Number one, not everyone
is a militant, not everyone.
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Most people aren't.
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When we would have wars
and rumors of wars over there,
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I realized this
was not the grocer,
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this was not the guy
that worked in the photo shop
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where I went, this was not
the person it did the lawns
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and not came and
cleaned the office,
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this is not my
neighbor, this is not the doctor
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that worked on worked
in people down the road.
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These were people-- excuse me,
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these were people who
were very, very different
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from most of the
people in the Middle East.
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I learn that this
is very different.
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Number two, that
a lot of the people
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who were militants
were not really living
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the full belief of the religion.
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That was
important for me to learn.
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So that when something happened
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and we were under attack
or when we were asked to leave
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I could identify what
was causing the problem.
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I didn't turn against
everybody that I knew,
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I didn't turn
against the instructors
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at Middle East College,
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I didn't the
aerobic instructors,
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I did not turn
against the service drivers,
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I did not turn
against the people
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I see walking the sidewalks.
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There was something
else, something else
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that was driving the violence,
driving the intolerance
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and it was not the normal
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everyday people
that I love, I still do.
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You know this was the
first modern round of civil war
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and I read that
you were therefore,
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so what really did drive them?
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What-- where did it come from?
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I'm positive one of my reasons
that I gave in another program
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is that this was
the postcolonial period
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and hadn't yet sorted that
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but as far as the religion goes,
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what this
minority what started them?
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Where did they come from?
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Well, that
happened after I left.
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We're talking about the
60 war when I was there,
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but after I left
the huge civil war
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that rocked Lebanon,
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but the seeds of it were brewing
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they were planted at that time
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and it just
comes down to exactly
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what you're saying
before on another program.
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You're different from I am,
we only have so much resources,
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I'm right and you are wrong
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and I'm going to
make sure that I survive
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and that my
belief systems survives
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and to do that I'm
gonna take you out.
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That's exactly what is going on.
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But again even that was
the small minority of people.
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We have wars
fought around the world
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not Nazism, China, look
at all these great battles,
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these great
genocides of the past
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were operated by
small groups of people
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who were able to
pull the war over
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a large group of people IS.
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Well, you know I've studied
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this sort of
phenomenon in history
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and I've read different figures
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but I don't remember
which one made the most sense,
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just plucking a
number out of thin air,
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I don't believe it
needs more than about
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five to eight
percent of the population
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to create a revolution.
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But you have to realize
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when it comes to our
Muslim brothers and sisters
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five, eight
percent is a lot of people,
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it's a lot of people
enough that they can do things
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and they can cause things
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and they can do horrible damage.
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Of course a lot of
people but you don't, you know--
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lets get real we're filming
this in the United States
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and you know I
studied history here
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and I love US history
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I don't believe quite all of it.
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That sounds
anti-American I don't believe--
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The interpret.
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You don't believe the
interpretation of all of it
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I don't believe anything
I read in any history of it,
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because history is
always more complex
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and less one dimensional
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then the great
school of history books.
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And one of the
myths that I think
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the history books
not so inadvertently
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but in an effort to make a nice
narrative the myth they create
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is that the whole the colonies
rose up against the British,
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this is not true.
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And it's obvious even
in president Adams era,
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he had the alien
and sedation acts
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because he
couldn't rely on the loyalty
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of the entire New England area
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they are still loyal to England.
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It was a small
minority of people
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that were thoroughly motivated,
precipitated the event
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and then polarize the situation
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to bring the
others along with them.
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And this is not the
damn American history
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because this happens everywhere.
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Yes, yes. But I'm just saying--
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When Paul Revere,
where Paul Revere is right
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the British are coming
a lot of you went good.
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Welcome, yeah, I'm
glad they're coming.
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Thank you it's been
so long, good to see you.
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A lot of people said that.
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And I have no problem
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with America
separating from England
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would have
happened sooner or later.
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They were
conflicts in here at the--
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but we need to
just recognize this
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when we're talking
about religious liberty
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and religious up welling
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and IS the Islamic
State in Iraq and Syria.
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This is a very small group
but incredibly highly motivated
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they have sympathies
that are in a broad's way
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of their own
Sunni minority in Iraq.
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But by no means that
I think that there is--
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I'm not so sure
they are even up to that
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five or eight
percent of the population
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but they're bringing
down the whole country.
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But the question is
how do you stop that
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knowing that that's
how human beings work
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and when we do
with religious liberty
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and religious
fraternity and live and let live
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and you know,
all of the very ends
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that come under healthy
religious liberty concept?
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How do we get back to that
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from where we are
now in those areas?
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I've asked you this
question before and I love--
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I've asked you a
question and you ask me.
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I know but I want to
make sure we have this,
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because a lot of
people may be thinking,
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why is this possible?
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Five percent of billions
of people are the bad guys,
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95% of billions of
people are the good guys
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and the 5% controls the
95%, how is that possible?
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Well, they don't
really control it
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but they catalyze the
actions and most people follow,
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is not that many
peoples that'll lead us
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once a groundswell starts
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people throw their
loyalties and obviously
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but they're not
activist they're not initiators.
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Well, either throw
your loyalty in a bit shot
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or dragged out of
your home and executing--
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One of the things and
once intimidation kicks
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in very few
people challenge that
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and this is why
I believe the ISIS
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are beheading people and so on.
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They are not
numerically superior
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and in spite of what the US says
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about the
terrorist and all of those
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which is true
in a classic sense.
00:10:03.48\00:10:05.83
But this is a standard
phenomenon of an under group
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that don't have a
superiority and they exhort--
00:10:08.87\00:10:11.52
they resort to extreme
measures to as force multiplies.
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Yeah, yeah.
00:10:14.46\00:10:17.82
I'm not pro-terrorist
in any shape or manner,
00:10:17.85\00:10:21.37
but you know I see
Al-Qaeda and these groups
00:10:21.40\00:10:25.83
when they take down a building
and do this sort if things,
00:10:25.86\00:10:28.72
that's the sort of thing
that revolutionaries have done
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from time a memorial
to terrorize the majority.
00:10:31.68\00:10:35.69
If they had an army,
they would use the army
00:10:35.72\00:10:38.94
but I think they
Rumsheld even developed
00:10:38.97\00:10:42.80
the concept of
asymmetrical warfare.
00:10:42.83\00:10:46.49
Yes, we have a big army
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and overwhelming
power on one model of force
00:10:48.20\00:10:51.95
but fighting asymmetrical
as the American colonist did
00:10:51.98\00:10:55.57
with small groups
hiding behind trees,
00:10:55.60\00:10:58.24
which was rude at that
time, the British you're men,
00:10:58.27\00:11:02.79
you can't stand out in the
open and fight like normal--
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Yeah, you are not
standing there in a row
00:11:04.02\00:11:05.05
so we can shoot you.
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This is cowardly. Yes.
00:11:06.14\00:11:07.90
But that won the day for them.
00:11:07.93\00:11:09.72
So we shouldn't
confuse the tactics
00:11:09.75\00:11:11.96
which are in my
view all war tactics
00:11:11.99\00:11:14.01
are brutal and satanic,
00:11:14.04\00:11:15.99
killing one human of another.
00:11:16.02\00:11:18.14
I don't think you
can excuse it in any form
00:11:18.17\00:11:20.72
this things that create
the human necessity for it.
00:11:20.75\00:11:24.41
It doesn't make it right. Yeah.
00:11:24.44\00:11:26.52
But we need to look at--
00:11:26.55\00:11:27.89
you know, what is
the underline dynamic
00:11:27.92\00:11:29.70
that we can improve in
some way to minimize this
00:11:29.73\00:11:34.76
and to bring
religion into a positive role
00:11:34.79\00:11:37.61
instead of being seen
as the Christopher Hitchens
00:11:37.64\00:11:40.71
and the others of
the world have said
00:11:40.74\00:11:42.04
this is the cause
of the world's grief.
00:11:42.07\00:11:44.73
Do you believe that-- well,
I'm asking you a question now,
00:11:44.76\00:11:46.78
I'm playing the
interviewer here again.
00:11:46.81\00:11:49.34
Do you believe that religion
is the answer to the problems
00:11:49.37\00:11:54.58
or is there something else
that might include religion?
00:11:54.61\00:11:58.09
Well, I have to believe
that religion is the answer.
00:11:58.12\00:12:00.14
Really?
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Otherwise we don't
need religion in the world,
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that's the whole reason the man
searches for faith beyond him.
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We've reasoned a
little beyond the caveman era,
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but to just imagine, you know,
this simple subsistence farmers
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and all the rest in there,
being prayed on by alliance
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and other things and
droughts are killing them off.
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Why are you living?
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You know, is it just
to get the next meal?
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Everybody needs to
have a more of the sense
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that they're important,
that they fit into something
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and so this been a
reaching toward the transcendent
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toward God for a long, long time
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and I think human shrivel
up and become intelligent
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but still animals if
they don't have a religion
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and I think God did
reach across the man.
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I don't just think
it's nice convenient model,
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I'm believing evidences
that God has reached out to us,
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and we have as
the social scientist
00:12:58.82\00:13:01.45
have said recently in Time
and Newsweek in big studies,
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we have a God
shape void with in us,
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there is something in
our psyche that demands
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that we discover
God and relate to Him.
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But it's so important
that when it gets out of whack,
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since this is
dealing with something
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beyond my
survival for the moment
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then it's so big that
that I would actually, not me
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but, you know, human beings
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will harm somebody else
to further that over all go.
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It's heavy stuff.
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I have a question for you
when we come back from break.
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Yes, you see like me,
the time is getting away so--
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Please stay with us
00:13:36.25\00:13:37.57
and we gonna get
into some heavy stuff,
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pretty soon we'll be discussing
the meaning of nothing.
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That's something I wasted
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a lot of time on philosophically
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or do you think as I think
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but you know we're
dealing with the philosophical
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base of religious
liberty here very important.
00:13:49.02\00:13:51.51
Stay with us.
00:13:51.54\00:13:52.57