Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Wintley Phipps
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000263A
|
00:16 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:18 This is the program bringing you news, 00:20 views discussion and up-to-date information 00:22 on religious liberty issues in the United States 00:25 and around the world. 00:27 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine 00:30 and my guest on this program, 00:32 very special guest is Wintley Phipps. 00:34 Now this is where I make a big pause 00:37 because how do I summarize you-- 00:40 religious liberty activists. 00:42 Yes, yes. 00:43 You've worked sometime for our church even. 00:45 Yes. 00:46 Pastor. Yes. 00:47 But I think the thing that single thing 00:49 that defines you is "The Voice." 00:50 Yeah, there well. 00:52 I call it my dominant gift. 00:54 Yes, that's a good way of put to your gift 00:56 and it's certainly been a central part 00:59 of your ministry over the years. 01:01 Yes. 01:02 My kids are very keen on TV program called The Voice. 01:05 Oh, yes, yes. 01:06 And I have watched that and I have been struck 01:08 by how many less than talented voices 01:10 there are in the world. 01:12 But you've sung before presidents, 01:14 you've sung all over the world 01:16 and your voice is really been a medium 01:18 to project in incredible values. 01:21 I think-- Thank you. 01:22 Not just a talent but there's a message there. 01:24 Yes. 01:25 But what I want to talk about too 01:28 is another aspect a recent aspect of your career. 01:31 It's Liberty author. Ah, yes. 01:34 Thanks to you and I was very grateful 01:36 for the opportunity you gave me 01:38 to share my experience in religious liberty 01:44 in South Africa and seeing it from my perspective 01:47 and being able to put that and print that. 01:49 Yeah, I have got a lot of good feedback 01:52 from that night certainly hope our viewers 01:54 read Liberty Magazine. 01:56 And its program is partly intended to be a stimulus 02:00 for them to read this regular magazine. 02:02 It comes out six times a year 02:04 and its largely targeting thought leaders, 02:07 politicians, presidents, mayors and so on. 02:11 And allow me to say that next to Brother Hegstad 02:17 who you know was the editor for-- 02:20 He was Mr. Liberty in my mind. 02:21 He was Mr. Liberty for over 30 years. 02:23 Yeah, absolutely. You've done an amazing job. 02:26 Oh, thank you. 02:27 And I want to thank you for your contribution. 02:28 Well, it's nice to get a few kudos. 02:31 If we sit off cameras not always positive. 02:33 That's right. 02:34 But no, I feel very comfortable that Liberty 02:36 and I feel privileged that I could be part 02:38 of what Hegstad and others before him-- 02:40 Yes. Put in place. 02:41 Let's-- it was began in 1906 02:44 that's a long time ago. 02:45 Well, yes it is. 02:46 And it's very close to the origins of our church 02:48 and it went back further with A. T. Jones 02:50 but that's another program. 02:51 Right, right. 02:53 Yeah the article you wrote was very particular 02:55 it wasn't just about South Africa 02:57 it was about Nelson Mandela. 02:58 Nelson Mandela. 02:59 And for me he's been an inspiration for many years 03:02 because I read his story way back 03:04 and he spent those years in prison. 03:06 Yes. 03:07 And the best part of his life 03:08 when you really think about 27 years. 03:10 Yeah, 27 years, yeah. 03:11 Plenty of people that kill someone in cold blood 03:14 and they're out in you know 10-15 years. 03:16 Yeah, that's right. 03:17 He had high aspirations for the freedom 03:19 in his country and for all 03:21 he knew he would have died in prison 03:23 but came out to lead his country 03:25 and that's what really got my attention 03:28 how this man who as a socialist early on, 03:32 he was a revolutionary. 03:34 Right. 03:35 He was rousing up against unjust system 03:37 and then he was sent to jail probably to finish his life 03:41 but when he came out there 03:42 didn't appear to be any bitterness. 03:44 That's right. 03:46 He healed the wounds of his country 03:48 and was a moral model I think for just like Mahatma Gandhi. 03:53 Also from South Africa most people don't realize 03:55 they think he was, 03:56 he was an Indian but grew up in South Africa 03:59 and I think Nelson Mandela 04:01 was an inspiration and your story 04:03 I think encapsulated that beautifully. 04:06 And you were there at the couple of 04:07 at least one key point in this story. 04:09 Yes, well, it was 1990 04:13 I got a call from my friend Jessie Jackson 04:17 who is a very intuitive, very wise man experiences 04:23 from civil rights and you know 04:25 he marched with Doctor King and learned a lot. 04:28 He was one of the junior to King. 04:29 Yeah, well, exactly. 04:31 And his instincts are very unusual 04:34 and he said to me come go to South Africa with me. 04:37 And I said okay. 04:38 And so I jumped on the plane 04:40 and found myself landing in Johannesburg 04:45 on the 8th of February 1990. 04:53 The next day we are in the office 04:56 of President F. W. de Klerk. 04:58 This is the president of the old regime of Africana. 05:02 Exactly. Yes, my father visited there. 05:05 My father use to work for temperance 05:06 for the Seventh-day Adventist church 05:07 and I remember once he came back 05:09 from a visit to South Africa 05:10 and he said he met with probably was de Klerk 05:12 because it was about that era 05:14 and met with the top guys and he came back 05:16 and he says "I never met with a harder hearted 05:19 more rigorous sort of a group." 05:22 It was like before the Grand Council. 05:26 You're right, right. They were tough cookies. 05:27 Yeah, yes. 05:29 And we also met with not only F. W. de Klerk 05:33 but both of who is really the foreign minister 05:37 who was behind a lot of the intrigue 05:40 that was going on. 05:41 He was very-- And the police action. 05:42 Yes the police action 05:43 but he was very wise and he carried on-- 05:46 But that states they had seen the way 05:49 that winds were blowing. 05:50 Well, actually... 05:51 when we after the diplomatic pleasantries here 05:54 he said to us "you've come a long way 05:58 to tell us apartheid is wrong. 06:00 He said but we want you to know 06:02 you're now preaching to the choir. 06:05 He said "We know it's wrong." He said "But we need time." 06:09 And he cast plea was for time 06:11 and of course it's very its I should put it its very easy 06:16 when you are the oppressor to plead for time. 06:19 Yes. 06:21 And so those who were being oppressed 06:23 where not taking kindly to any pleas for time. 06:27 But you have to wonder 06:30 when they got the true religion on this. 06:32 Yeah. 06:33 I have to believe that they themselves knew 06:35 that was wrong long before. 06:37 Absolutely. 06:38 World opinion turned against them. 06:39 He would think so and then he said we need time. 06:43 And those who were being oppressed 06:46 felt that that plea for time 06:49 was also for how they would use the time 06:53 and the time they thought would be used to privatize 06:57 many of the public holding at the time South Africa 07:00 the diamond mines the gold mines were all controlled 07:04 by the state as it were. 07:06 And so they thought to plea for time 07:08 was to privatize and sell off they opinions. 07:11 Oh, you put your finger on why South Africa 07:13 got away with this so long controlling 07:15 so much of the world gold and diamonds? 07:18 Yeah. 07:19 It was not in the interest 07:20 of the great powers to bring them down. 07:22 That's right and so-- 07:23 But yet Nelson Mandela really was the passive vehicle 07:26 from prison to bringing them down, wasn't it. 07:28 Well, which is interesting for me 07:31 we have this amazing meeting with the president 07:35 and then he did not tell us 07:37 that the very next day he had a secret meeting 07:41 with Nelson Mandela to inform him 07:45 that the next day 10th 07:48 that he was going before the cameras 07:51 and the press to announce to the world 07:53 that the next day the 11th 07:55 that he would be released from prison. 07:58 And so as a consequence 07:59 I was privileged to be there in the crowd 08:04 that welcomed Nelson Mandela when he came out of prison. 08:07 Well, prison and it was an electric time 08:10 it's very difficult to explain the joy 08:14 the excitement that gripped South Africa in that moment. 08:18 And then to see this man 08:22 who had spent 27 years in prison 08:26 come out and as you said with no bitterness 08:30 with one word of bitterness, 08:33 one word of rancour one word of anger. 08:37 He could have set crowd the whole at loose. 08:39 Yeah, he could have really brought flames 08:42 South Africa could have gone up by flames. 08:43 I've listened to that speech. I have got it on a CD. 08:46 And I have listened to it many times. 08:47 And it's wonderful and he says 08:49 I'm just to serve I don't know if you use the word serve. 08:52 But I am here at your service. Yes, yes. 08:53 He didn't speak as those here 08:55 I have come to take what's mine. 08:57 Exactly. 08:58 It was very good speech. 09:00 In the article I have mentioned 09:02 God gave me this phrase that he literally 09:05 counseled a nation back from the brink of extinction. 09:10 Because South Africa would not be the South Africa 09:13 today had not Nelson Mandela 09:17 had the kind of magnanimity, 09:19 the kind of spiritual in afforded 09:23 to take the cause of the earth. 09:25 Spiritual power I believe. Yeah, absolutely. 09:28 Talking to you or listening to you speak 09:30 I could see hear your singing voice. 09:31 It's resonating to me. 09:33 I know you've volunteered to do this. 09:34 Absolutely. 09:35 Why don't we take a moment and now you've got a song 09:37 that I think will fit in here nicely. 09:38 Absolutely. 09:40 Sing to our audience "I believe." 09:41 "I believe" and it's a song believing 09:44 when things are tough 09:46 you still have to keep believing. 09:47 Absolutely. 10:20 I believe for every drop of rain that falls 10:27 A flower grows 10:31 I believe that somewhere in the darkest night 10:38 A candle glows 10:43 I believe for everyone who goes astray 10:49 Someone will come 10:53 To show the way 10:59 I believe 11:04 I believe 11:10 I believe above the storm a smallest prayer 11:16 Will still be heard 11:21 I believe that someone in the great somewhere 11:27 Hears every word 11:33 Every time I hear a newborn baby cry 11:39 Or touch a leaf, or see the sky 11:47 Then I know why 11:53 I believe 12:03 I believe above the storm a smallest prayer 12:10 Will still be heard 12:15 I believe that someone in the great somewhere 12:21 Hears every word 12:26 Every time I hear a newborn baby cry 12:33 Or touch a leaf, or see the sky 12:41 Then I know why 12:46 I believe 12:53 Every time I hear a newborn baby cry 13:00 Or touch a leaf, or see the sky 13:07 Then I know why 13:13 I believe 13:19 Then I know why 13:23 I believe 13:48 Amen. 13:49 We got to believe in freedom. Yes, yes. 13:51 And all of the higher values. 13:52 Let's a take a break, 13:54 we can't talk too much after that. 13:55 Let's take a break we'll be right back 13:57 to continue our discussion 13:59 with Wintley Phipps, "The Voice." |
Revised 2014-12-17