Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Orlan Johnson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000261B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break with guest Orlan Johnson 00:10 we were going over what constitutes persecution, 00:14 because we've seen on a committee 00:16 that we both attend in its most raw sense 00:19 where Seventh-day Adventist in Togo was accused of gross 00:23 and barbaric murderous act. 00:26 Essentially because of his religious views 00:29 that put him in the suspicion, it was not seen positively. 00:33 But you mentioned before the break 00:35 that churches building permit situation 00:39 that church can signal a very antagonistic attitude 00:43 from the community or sometimes just the board 00:47 that are authorizes it, concerning board. 00:49 Absolutely, you see tremendous amount of that activity 00:53 I was mentioned and that I believed in jurisdiction 00:55 where they were over 800 churches in one county 00:59 and the county decided that, you know what, 01:01 we're not issuing anymore permits for new churches 01:04 because all that's doing is taking away from the tax base. 01:07 You have a church and it becomes 01:09 extremely difficult to get your permits 01:11 in order to do any development or additional development. 01:15 I go to a church in the middle of the city 01:17 and the whole time we're doing renovation, 01:19 we have neighbors that are peaking in, 01:21 hoping they be able to call somebody 01:22 and slow things down and shut things down 01:25 and I think all of that is part of the process 01:28 and I think that's what we also need to be cautious about 01:31 but it's also important that 01:33 we dwell ourselves into our community 01:35 so that they have a better idea of who we are and what we do. 01:39 I need to make a comment on zoning 01:40 and yet it sometimes used against churches 01:44 but I think part of what sharpened this zoning problem 01:47 is gasoline and Casino 01:50 or some people often come from somewhere else 01:53 than where they worship 01:54 and there is something to be said for a church 01:57 surrounded by the community of believers 01:59 because they changed the community view point. 02:02 Yeah. 02:03 And it's very easy nowadays not just Adventist 02:05 but it's a whole so phenomenon 02:07 but a church being built somewhere 02:08 it can be seen by the immediate names as an in position 02:11 because they don't know the people there, 02:12 they have no neighbors they belongs to that group. 02:14 But, you know, it's interesting, Lincoln, 02:15 that happen so much because I think it requires 02:18 so much work to really find out how can you be impact 02:21 for your community especially in, you know, 02:23 in America and most of our communities would have been-- 02:25 which have been change in dramatically. 02:27 I mean, I've been at the same church 02:29 for maybe 20 years and the community 02:30 that surrounds my church is completely different today 02:33 than it was 20 years ago. 02:34 Which means all of the great things 02:36 I may have done from a community stand point 02:38 20 years ago are not really appropriate now 02:41 and the willingness to want to put your time and energy 02:45 into finding out how can I be impact for with this group 02:49 sometimes it requires a type of energy 02:51 that most of us may not want to use. 02:52 We don't have it then. Yeah. 02:54 But that's part of the job. 02:55 But and I'm gonna sound-- well, this is critical 02:58 but I think there is an upside to it, 03:00 but I've had to do an experiment of necessity 03:03 before GPS particularly before I had one. 03:06 There were number of cases where I had an appointment 03:08 in the church directions 03:10 when people gave your directions, 03:12 we don't know what's so good 03:13 that someone even their address itself 03:15 is not expressed correctly. 03:16 And I've had cases, I remember once in Canada 03:19 I drove up and down this main road 03:21 I started early, I was early for Sabbath school 03:23 and I barely made church in the end. 03:25 I drove more and more desperate 03:27 and in the end I was reduced gas stations 03:30 where I asked at first I think feeding stores. 03:33 But I was reduced to go like door to door, 03:35 is there an Adventist Church. 03:37 I could tell you the closest I asked was two doors down, 03:39 never heard of an Adventist is such a church, 03:42 never heard of them. 03:43 Yeah. It's, it's a truth. 03:46 Makes you wonder. It's the truth. 03:47 And which is a critical question 03:49 that most churches should asked themselves 03:51 if your church were to disappear tomorrow 03:54 would your community miss you? 03:55 Yeah. 03:56 And if the answer is they probably 03:57 wouldn't even know we left. 03:58 Then you have to realize 03:59 you probably not doing the best job there. 04:01 I mean, the individual members can be wonderful Christian. 04:04 Sure. 04:05 Who-- you and I can't say definitive 04:06 but any other human being but I think 04:08 we can make a reasonable statement 04:10 about the effect of this in a community of 04:13 like cluster of people of the church 04:15 and the answer comes in many fronts. 04:17 It's their personal relationship 04:19 with their neighbors, it's the way 04:21 that the church may project itself 04:23 like at the church that I go to at the moment. 04:25 They're running a very expensive 04:28 outreach program for young people 04:29 and they brought people in from England to run it. 04:32 And supposedly they advertised. 04:34 I never saw it either but 04:36 and they've got a signup from the front yard 04:37 that's lying almost on it side so can't see it. 04:41 Barely see it. 04:42 And I don't know my daughter's bringing a friend from school 04:45 which is good. 04:47 I haven't seen any other non-Adventist at the program. 04:50 So this happens to be Adventist but I think many churches 04:54 aren't really projecting themselves out. 04:57 They need to be as they were in the Middle Ages 05:00 at the time we spoke about another program 05:01 when there was persecution but a church used to be 05:04 an expression of community activity. 05:07 And I think we can get back to that. 05:08 I think I've shared with you once before, 05:10 my church is in the middle of urban environment 05:14 and we wanted to find out how can we be more impactful 05:17 and our church started this running club. 05:19 And this running club we kind of saw that 05:22 we have a lot of people in neighborhood 05:23 that like to jog and things with that nature 05:25 and part of what we try to do is to create a club 05:29 that kind of focused on exercise 05:31 and you can come and you can run 05:33 and you stop by our church and maybe there would be 05:35 some refreshments and things of that nature. 05:37 So all of the sudden now you're proceed 05:40 is been something other than an entity 05:42 that takes a parking spaces on Sabbath morning 05:45 and but it requires time and energy 05:47 to kind of figure out how to do that 05:49 and I think those are the new ones 05:51 is that can help us 05:52 as we really try to impact our community 05:54 and also be able to fend off 05:56 someone the new answers of life there and be active. 05:59 Maybe it's simplistic thinking. 06:01 I do, I can describe what needs to be done 06:04 or what's not being done but I really don't think 06:07 the answer is a checklist of things. 06:09 I think the answer is 06:11 people falling in love with their faith 06:12 and having a great compulsion to tell other people 06:15 then all sorts of things sort of happen. 06:16 Yeah. 06:17 Now, I think it is because I think 06:19 at the end of the day no matter what we do 06:21 we still have to wait for the Holy Spirit 06:23 to come in and do its work. 06:24 And my opinion the only thing 06:27 the Lord ask us to do is to be faithful 06:29 and what He calls us to do and not worry about 06:32 the success of our faith but just to be faithful 06:34 and allow the success of our faith 06:36 to take place on its own. 06:37 And I do believe that as Pastor Monteiro-- 06:41 well, I rephrase it. 06:43 I believe that Pastor Monteiro while he was "persecuted" 06:48 was given a wonderful opportunity 06:50 in our church there was given an opportunity 06:52 and those negative television programs 06:55 you could be embarrassed and I would be too 06:58 and yet by the same token 06:59 it spread the word and the name Adventist. 07:01 In Australia we had while I was back there 07:04 in the 70s and 80s we had the problem 07:07 with the Lindy Chamberlain trial 07:09 many of our viewers will remember 07:10 this Adventist pastor and his wife 07:12 when camping in there infant daughter was taken by dingo 07:16 in first there were all sad for them 07:17 and then it turned into a charge of murder 07:20 and she was convicted and it was horrific 07:23 the church didn't know how to deal with this. 07:25 And I remember we got an Adventist doctor 07:28 who was on one of the main television programs 07:30 like Johnny Carson is the doctor, 07:33 doctor Sanjay Gupta is equivalent of that. 07:37 And we got him to advice our church 07:38 how do we deal with this. 07:40 And he got up and he says well-- 07:42 he says I don't know, he says, 07:43 but any publicity is good publicity, 07:46 the Lord will tell well at the end. 07:48 Yeah. 07:50 It was a little bit simplistic but, you know, 07:52 9/11 for Islam is showing the same thing 07:55 that some degree when we brought 07:56 face to face with either authorities 07:58 or insoluble situation or test of our faith 08:02 it has to have a very positive outgrowth. 08:05 You know, I think it does and I think, you know, 08:07 at the end of the day, you know, 08:09 I know there is a little bit of a stretch 08:10 with all publicity is a good publicity, 08:12 but I think-- 08:13 He said that but I don't think it's quite that simply. 08:15 You know, but I do think it's important that 08:17 if they are not talking about you in some form of fashion 08:20 then that means you probably 08:22 are not making any kind of impact. 08:23 That mean sometimes no matter what you do 08:25 they may talk negatively about you 08:27 but the fact that you're doing something makes a difference. 08:29 And I think that's where, you know, when we think about 08:32 trying to impact the world where we really want to go. 08:34 Yeah. 08:36 We started talking about the cases of persecution 08:39 and we mentioned this young man in Pakistan 08:43 but it was sort of an affair of the heart 08:45 that got a bit of that. 08:46 He wanted to marry this young girl, of course 08:51 there are arrange marriages in that part of the world. 08:53 The parents so otherwise they married her off 08:55 to a Pakistani living in England 08:58 and he kept an affinity with this woman 09:00 which probably does not ideal. 09:02 Well, there is no indication anything wrong 09:04 and said was a jealous husband 09:07 over hearing their telephone conversation 09:09 and I don't even think he heard the contacts 09:11 that just reported them to Pakistan 09:13 saying that they have defame the prophet 09:15 and that's a case of where this is an extraordinarily 09:21 one dimensional law that you run fell of that 09:24 just an accusation is enough. 09:26 But that existed in the Middle Ages in Europe. 09:29 Oh, yeah. 09:30 That if you bless famed, if you spoke against the king 09:34 or the pope your life was forfeit. 09:38 And honestly most of us would like to believe 09:40 they will never see that happen 09:41 again in our lives or where we live 09:44 but the reality is, is that really is gonna be 09:46 to some degree, some of it will do-- 09:48 It could happen. It has several many times. 09:50 We're in a little sitzkrieg 09:53 in the war of faith or for faith 09:56 and we need to be prepared not nervously prepared 09:59 but ready for the challenge, right? 10:01 I mean, I think the challenge that we have as Christians is 10:04 understanding that it is so important for us 10:06 to be up there in a forefront and constantly 10:09 just following God wherever He directs us to go. 10:12 It's never gonna be easy, it's never gonna be something 10:15 that's always gonna be pleasant 10:16 but just like all of the forefathers 10:19 we've seen in the past if we are faithful 10:22 and just be faithful not worry about being successful 10:24 just being faithful will be go all right in the end. 10:29 Only few days ago I visited Normandy 10:33 the scene of the great D-day invasion 10:36 and went to the American cemetery there. 10:39 It was almost too much to take in 10:41 and in reality to see those white crosses 10:45 some of them Jewish stars of David 10:48 but mostly white crosses stretching almost 10:51 as far as you could see in any direction. 10:54 We rightly honor those 10:56 who have given all for their country. 10:59 But as Christians as people of faith 11:02 there has to be an acknowledgment that those 11:04 who have given their lives 11:06 literally their existence, their life force an expanded it 11:10 and it's been taken from them often 11:12 by force, violence, by fire, by garrote 11:17 and all of the other devices of the inquisitions 11:20 and other punishments those that have done that 11:23 in the name of Christ and of their Lord 11:26 we should honor those people 11:27 because to be faithful unto death, 11:30 death itself not the death that's the end 11:34 but that is the proof that someone is willing to give all 11:37 because their faith is all and in all for their very life. 11:44 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17