Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest Orlan Johnson
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we were going over what
constitutes persecution,
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because we've
seen on a committee
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that we both attend
in its most raw sense
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where Seventh-day Adventist
in Togo was accused of gross
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and barbaric murderous act.
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Essentially because
of his religious views
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that put him in the suspicion,
it was not seen positively.
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But you
mentioned before the break
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that churches
building permit situation
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that church can signal a
very antagonistic attitude
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from the community or
sometimes just the board
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that are authorizes
it, concerning board.
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Absolutely, you see tremendous
amount of that activity
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I was mentioned and that
I believed in jurisdiction
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where they were over
800 churches in one county
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and the county
decided that, you know what,
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we're not issuing
anymore permits for new churches
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because all that's doing is
taking away from the tax base.
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You have a church and it becomes
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extremely
difficult to get your permits
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in order to do any development
or additional development.
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I go to a church in
the middle of the city
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and the whole time
we're doing renovation,
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we have neighbors
that are peaking in,
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hoping they be
able to call somebody
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and slow things
down and shut things down
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and I think all of
that is part of the process
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and I think that's what we
also need to be cautious about
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but it's also important that
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we dwell
ourselves into our community
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so that they have a better idea
of who we are and what we do.
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I need to make a
comment on zoning
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and yet it sometimes
used against churches
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but I think part of what
sharpened this zoning problem
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is gasoline and Casino
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or some people often
come from somewhere else
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than where they worship
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and there is something
to be said for a church
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surrounded by the
community of believers
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because they changed
the community view point.
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Yeah.
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And it's very easy
nowadays not just Adventist
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but it's a whole so phenomenon
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but a church
being built somewhere
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it can be seen by the immediate
names as an in position
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because they don't
know the people there,
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they have no neighbors
they belongs to that group.
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But, you know, it's
interesting, Lincoln,
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that happen so much
because I think it requires
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so much work to really
find out how can you be impact
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for your community
especially in, you know,
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in America and most of our
communities would have been--
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which have been
change in dramatically.
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I mean, I've been
at the same church
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for maybe 20
years and the community
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that surrounds my church
is completely different today
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than it was 20 years ago.
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Which means all
of the great things
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I may have done from
a community stand point
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20 years ago are not
really appropriate now
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and the willingness to
want to put your time and energy
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into finding out how can I
be impact for with this group
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sometimes it
requires a type of energy
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that most of us
may not want to use.
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We don't have it then. Yeah.
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But that's part of the job.
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But and I'm gonna
sound-- well, this is critical
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but I think there
is an upside to it,
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but I've had to do an
experiment of necessity
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before GPS
particularly before I had one.
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There were number of
cases where I had an appointment
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in the church directions
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when people
gave your directions,
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we don't know what's so good
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that someone even
their address itself
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is not expressed correctly.
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And I've had cases, I
remember once in Canada
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I drove up and
down this main road
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I started early, I was
early for Sabbath school
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and I barely made
church in the end.
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I drove more and more desperate
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and in the end I
was reduced gas stations
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where I asked at first
I think feeding stores.
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But I was reduced to
go like door to door,
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is there an Adventist Church.
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I could tell you the closest
I asked was two doors down,
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never heard of an
Adventist is such a church,
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never heard of them.
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Yeah. It's, it's a truth.
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Makes you
wonder. It's the truth.
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And which is a critical question
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that most churches
should asked themselves
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if your church were
to disappear tomorrow
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would your community miss you?
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Yeah.
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And if the
answer is they probably
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wouldn't even know we left.
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Then you have to realize
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you probably not
doing the best job there.
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I mean, the individual members
can be wonderful Christian.
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Sure.
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Who-- you and I
can't say definitive
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but any other
human being but I think
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we can make a
reasonable statement
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about the effect of
this in a community of
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like cluster of
people of the church
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and the answer
comes in many fronts.
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It's their personal relationship
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with their
neighbors, it's the way
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that the church
may project itself
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like at the church
that I go to at the moment.
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They're running a very expensive
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outreach
program for young people
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and they brought people
in from England to run it.
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And supposedly they advertised.
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I never saw it either but
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and they've got a
signup from the front yard
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that's lying almost on
it side so can't see it.
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Barely see it.
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And I don't know my daughter's
bringing a friend from school
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which is good.
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I haven't seen any other
non-Adventist at the program.
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So this happens to be Adventist
but I think many churches
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aren't really
projecting themselves out.
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They need to be as
they were in the Middle Ages
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at the time we spoke
about another program
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when there was persecution
but a church used to be
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an expression of
community activity.
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And I think we
can get back to that.
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I think I've shared
with you once before,
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my church is in the
middle of urban environment
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and we wanted to find out
how can we be more impactful
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and our church
started this running club.
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And this running
club we kind of saw that
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we have a lot of
people in neighborhood
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that like to jog and
things with that nature
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and part of what we try
to do is to create a club
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that kind of focused on exercise
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and you can come and you can run
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and you stop by our
church and maybe there would be
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some refreshments and
things of that nature.
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So all of the
sudden now you're proceed
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is been something
other than an entity
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that takes a parking
spaces on Sabbath morning
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and but it
requires time and energy
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to kind of figure
out how to do that
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and I think
those are the new ones
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is that can help us
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as we really try to
impact our community
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and also be able to fend off
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someone the new answers
of life there and be active.
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Maybe it's simplistic thinking.
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I do, I can describe
what needs to be done
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or what's not being
done but I really don't think
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the answer is a
checklist of things.
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I think the answer is
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people falling in
love with their faith
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and having a great
compulsion to tell other people
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then all sorts of
things sort of happen.
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Yeah.
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Now, I think it
is because I think
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at the end of the
day no matter what we do
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we still have to
wait for the Holy Spirit
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to come in and do its work.
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And my opinion the only thing
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the Lord ask us to
do is to be faithful
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and what He calls us
to do and not worry about
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the success of our
faith but just to be faithful
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and allow the
success of our faith
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to take place on its own.
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And I do believe
that as Pastor Monteiro--
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well, I rephrase it.
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I believe that Pastor Monteiro
while he was "persecuted"
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was given a
wonderful opportunity
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in our church there
was given an opportunity
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and those negative
television programs
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you could be
embarrassed and I would be too
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and yet by the same token
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it spread the word
and the name Adventist.
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In Australia we had
while I was back there
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in the 70s and
80s we had the problem
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with the Lindy Chamberlain trial
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many of our
viewers will remember
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this Adventist
pastor and his wife
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when camping in there infant
daughter was taken by dingo
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in first there
were all sad for them
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and then it turned
into a charge of murder
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and she was
convicted and it was horrific
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the church didn't
know how to deal with this.
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And I remember we
got an Adventist doctor
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who was on one of the
main television programs
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like Johnny
Carson is the doctor,
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doctor Sanjay Gupta
is equivalent of that.
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And we got him
to advice our church
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how do we deal with this.
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And he got up and he says well--
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he says I don't know, he says,
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but any publicity
is good publicity,
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the Lord will
tell well at the end.
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Yeah.
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It was a little bit
simplistic but, you know,
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9/11 for Islam is
showing the same thing
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that some degree when we brought
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face to face with
either authorities
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or insoluble
situation or test of our faith
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it has to have a
very positive outgrowth.
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You know, I think it
does and I think, you know,
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at the end of the day, you know,
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I know there is a
little bit of a stretch
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with all publicity
is a good publicity,
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but I think--
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He said that but I don't
think it's quite that simply.
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You know, but I do
think it's important that
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if they are not talking about
you in some form of fashion
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then that means you probably
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are not making
any kind of impact.
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That mean sometimes
no matter what you do
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they may talk
negatively about you
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but the fact that you're doing
something makes a difference.
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And I think that's where,
you know, when we think about
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trying to impact the world
where we really want to go.
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Yeah.
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We started talking
about the cases of persecution
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and we mentioned
this young man in Pakistan
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but it was sort of
an affair of the heart
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that got a bit of that.
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He wanted to marry
this young girl, of course
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there are arrange marriages
in that part of the world.
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The parents so
otherwise they married her off
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to a Pakistani living in England
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and he kept an
affinity with this woman
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which probably does not ideal.
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Well, there is no
indication anything wrong
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and said was a jealous husband
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over hearing their
telephone conversation
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and I don't even
think he heard the contacts
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that just
reported them to Pakistan
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saying that they
have defame the prophet
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and that's a case of
where this is an extraordinarily
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one dimensional law
that you run fell of that
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just an accusation is enough.
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But that existed in
the Middle Ages in Europe.
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Oh, yeah.
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That if you bless famed,
if you spoke against the king
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or the pope your
life was forfeit.
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And honestly most of
us would like to believe
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they will never see that happen
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again in our
lives or where we live
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but the reality is, is
that really is gonna be
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to some degree,
some of it will do--
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It could happen. It
has several many times.
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We're in a little sitzkrieg
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in the war of faith or for faith
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and we need to be
prepared not nervously prepared
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but ready for
the challenge, right?
00:09:59.29\00:10:01.11
I mean, I think the challenge
that we have as Christians is
00:10:01.14\00:10:04.27
understanding that it
is so important for us
00:10:04.30\00:10:06.71
to be up there in a
forefront and constantly
00:10:06.74\00:10:09.57
just following God
wherever He directs us to go.
00:10:09.60\00:10:12.32
It's never gonna be easy,
it's never gonna be something
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that's always gonna be pleasant
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but just like all
of the forefathers
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we've seen in the
past if we are faithful
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and just be faithful not
worry about being successful
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just being faithful will
be go all right in the end.
00:10:24.61\00:10:29.40
Only few days ago
I visited Normandy
00:10:29.43\00:10:33.56
the scene of the
great D-day invasion
00:10:33.59\00:10:36.25
and went to the
American cemetery there.
00:10:36.28\00:10:39.33
It was almost
too much to take in
00:10:39.36\00:10:41.92
and in reality to
see those white crosses
00:10:41.95\00:10:45.11
some of them
Jewish stars of David
00:10:45.14\00:10:48.24
but mostly white
crosses stretching almost
00:10:48.27\00:10:51.59
as far as you could
see in any direction.
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We rightly honor those
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who have given
all for their country.
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But as Christians
as people of faith
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there has to be an
acknowledgment that those
00:11:02.44\00:11:04.64
who have given their lives
00:11:04.67\00:11:06.68
literally their existence,
their life force an expanded it
00:11:06.71\00:11:10.95
and it's been
taken from them often
00:11:10.98\00:11:12.91
by force,
violence, by fire, by garrote
00:11:12.94\00:11:17.30
and all of the other
devices of the inquisitions
00:11:17.33\00:11:20.76
and other punishments
those that have done that
00:11:20.79\00:11:23.43
in the name of
Christ and of their Lord
00:11:23.46\00:11:26.07
we should honor those people
00:11:26.10\00:11:27.57
because to be
faithful unto death,
00:11:27.60\00:11:30.90
death itself not
the death that's the end
00:11:30.93\00:11:34.02
but that is the proof that
someone is willing to give all
00:11:34.05\00:11:37.90
because their faith is all
and in all for their very life.
00:11:37.93\00:11:44.30
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:44.33\00:11:47.80