Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Orlan Johnson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000260B
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00:06 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:07 Before the break with guest Orlan Johnson 00:11 we sort of gone uphill down dale with-- 00:13 we were ending up talking about young people 00:15 and the challenge in North America. 00:17 Started off making an illusion to the Middle East 00:20 and I think there is a connection. 00:22 What happens in other parts of the world 00:24 you can easily say it's somewhere else on earth. 00:26 But I think young people sensibility 00:28 is affected by this. 00:29 I know that the-- the Jesus movement and, 00:33 and the agitation with the anti-war 00:35 agitation of young people in the Vietnam era 00:38 that was everything to do with 00:39 what was happening in the world, 00:40 they were unsettled. 00:42 And right now with Afghanistan winding down and in Iraq 00:47 which immediately called on the energy 00:50 of mostly young people. 00:52 Absolutely. 00:53 I think the continuing instability in the Middle East 00:56 and, and I'm trying to think how to characterize it 01:00 but fundamentalist Christians in the United States 01:03 I think they have done themselves 01:05 or the society as service by sort of emphasizing 01:09 the apocalyptic nature of the support of Israel. 01:12 So that's sort of gives the sense 01:13 that might go up in a big mushroom cloud again. 01:16 I think we somehow need to tell young people that 01:18 yes, these things are important but what's really important is 01:22 where you're spiritually and what you're scented on. 01:24 Right. 01:25 Now I think that's truly important 01:27 and its interesting when you even go to meet 01:29 at ambassador's offices now 01:31 and they bring contentions from their countries. 01:33 There's generally someone in the room that representing 01:36 a young contingent of some sort because they realize that 01:40 if you don't deal with issues that impact young people 01:43 and it's the same issues everywhere, unemployment, 01:45 you know, opportunities for education, 01:47 the ability to be trained. 01:49 You know, many of the terrible things that happen in life is 01:52 because of lack of opportunity to do anything else. 01:55 And if you can get young people to be involved, 01:58 I think that's critical and 02:00 but I think the point that you've made is, 02:01 what's the most important point for all young people. 02:04 I think about it with my own children 02:05 and try to pray about it for them regularly is that, 02:08 they develop their own personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 02:11 They won't be able to live their Christian life 02:14 through my experiences. 02:16 It has to be something where they develop 02:18 their own experiences and it will have to be 02:20 something that sometimes its parents difficult to know. 02:23 It will be independent of me. 02:25 It's now and then you can't save the situation. 02:29 This is a negative example 02:31 but it's really impressed on me. 02:33 As a parent I've got teenage-- 02:34 well, one teenager and one almost. 02:37 And you know, I think am I succeeding or failing, 02:40 you know, they are making the right choices. 02:42 They think about, Samuel 02:44 one of the most godly man in the Bible. 02:46 He sort of struck out with his kids 02:48 and on top of that Eli. 02:50 We tend to think of Eli is not doing great 02:53 but he was a godly man. 02:54 Yeah. Horrible sons. 02:55 Yeah. 02:56 But both of them I think were praying and hoping 02:59 and there's other cases in the Bible 03:01 where young people did answered to the challenge. 03:03 Absolutely. 03:04 And I do believe that young people have that idealism 03:07 that I spoke about. 03:10 But let's connect again to the Middle East 03:12 and I'm trying to join two very disparate things. 03:14 I've been startled looking at those headlines 03:18 we were talking about a week or so ago 03:21 now as we film this to see images of Pope Francis 03:25 in the Middle East, best time for him 03:28 is predicative too back John Paul 03:31 finished his pontificate by literal pilgrims 03:34 to the Middle East leaning on a staff 03:36 and I've mentioned on this program 03:41 but very telling to me that John Paul, 03:45 before he went to Jerusalem stopped in Ramallah 03:48 had that meeting with Arafat and they signed 03:52 an actual agreement that Jerusalem 03:55 couldn't be settled without being involved. 03:56 So I know that religious powers 03:58 are very much involved in this political conflict there. 04:02 Absolutely. 04:03 So to see Francis there at the Wailing Wall, 04:05 to see him the dividing wall, 04:08 the security wall at a memorial. 04:10 What did you make off all of that? 04:12 Well, you know-- Does that mean anything. 04:14 Or is it over rights for the Catholic Church? 04:16 Well, you know, I think, 04:17 from the Catholic Church's standpoint, 04:19 the one thing that I've always thought 04:20 they have done a good job of-- is to create an environment 04:24 where they can always been seen 04:26 and always be in the midst of things. 04:27 And this probably no better what I would call 04:31 headline in the world than, you know, 04:33 you were helping to break a peace in the Middle East. 04:36 So for Francis to say, I'd like to get 04:38 the Palestinians and Israel's together 04:41 and to sit down and to talk 04:42 and to come to some point of peace. 04:45 In reality to have someone in that position, 04:49 at the level to in anyway be able to claim 04:52 to be part of the peace process, 04:54 I think that and of it itself whether you want to say, 04:56 it's really what the church there wants to do 04:58 or it's propaganda or whatever it is 05:01 I think it causes people to be talking about you 05:03 and I think that's part of 05:05 what I think the overall objective is. 05:07 And you know, I wrote something about this the other day 05:09 and we got to be honest and fair 05:11 that on the simplest level it's admirable. 05:13 Yeah. 05:14 Who can say it's a bad thing for this particular pope to be 05:18 wanting to make peace. 05:22 From a historical protestant point of view 05:25 it's sort of can be ominous because it's a reminder of 05:28 when the Roman Catholic Church was a power broker 05:32 not because they were a facilitative 05:34 but they were the authority, they demanded that the kings 05:38 and the rulers do what they say. 05:41 And you know, it's not a good dynamic. 05:44 We're not there now. Right. 05:45 But it just tells me that things can shift. 05:47 But, yes, I really admire this pope and his initiatives, 05:51 so I think it's good. 05:52 Yeah. I think it's good. 05:54 I admire the initiatives 05:55 but I think it also begs the question as to, you know, 05:59 what we're doing and also being clear on, 06:01 sometimes when there is this cry of unity 06:04 and we should all be on accord 06:05 that you also still have to be balanced in that approach 06:09 because if this world were to every "get unified" 06:13 in the name of religion, I don't think they would be 06:15 going to church on Sabbath, that we recognized the day 06:18 and that's why we still have to be always vigilant 06:21 and always in my opinion working constantly 06:25 to remind people about religious liberties 06:27 and what we really believe. 06:28 Well, in some ways that we could have 06:30 a whole program on this it was trendy as long as 06:35 30, 40 years ago for the Christian world 06:38 and the World Council of Churches led the way on that 06:40 to be pursuing unity from a point of 06:44 everyone combining together 06:46 and sort of getting rid of the differences 06:49 and we unite around a common sort of a description. 06:53 I think that time is passed and I don't hear 06:57 especially out of Rome that sort of a call anymore. 07:00 The call now is under headship to acknowledge 07:03 the primacy of the power of Rome and the prerogatives, 07:08 and its spiritual role and that's not good either 07:11 because that goes back against to the reformation. 07:13 Yeah, yeah. 07:14 But unity, if it were to come on anything, 07:18 political and spiritual, 07:20 unity is not just come by our own feeling. 07:24 It either comes two ways. 07:25 That either you put away your beliefs 07:27 or you adopt contrary in emulative beliefs. 07:31 So we used to use the word, 07:33 no I've forgotten it, syncretism. 07:36 Syncretism in religious circles where you sort of mix 07:40 the opposites together and make a stew of 07:42 that's very dangerous. 07:44 Right. 07:45 And not likely to happen but where you 07:48 compromise your principles that's not good either. 07:50 So unity is great but unless it's qualified 07:54 it's either meaningless or dangerous. 07:56 I couldn't agree more and let's face it. 07:58 The Catholic Church is no different 08:00 than any other organization there 08:02 trying to figure out how to continue to have growth, 08:04 how to continue to be relevant, 08:06 how to continue to impact their young people and young adults 08:09 because they have had some issues that they have been 08:12 grabbling with, that they are trying to figure out 08:14 how to do a better job with it. 08:16 So it's, it's admirable and it's, in my opinion 08:19 the type of thing that is you know, 08:22 apple pie and you just really can't say 08:26 this is something wrong with it, 08:27 but we still have to always be cautious. 08:28 But it is not wrong. 08:30 It's a very telling movement 08:31 because its got historical analogs 08:35 that should remind us of what once was 08:37 and even some prophetic intimations of the world 08:42 moving towards as were saying, a false sort of a unity. 08:45 But as far as the actual event, amazing and we'll see if, 08:50 if this pope can succeed where president's failed 08:53 before, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and so 08:58 and they have all tried their best 09:00 and not much good is coming out of it 09:03 and along the way bizarre things. 09:05 Yasser Arafat as I remember got he peace prize 09:07 and what's that? 09:08 Nobel Peace Prize. 09:09 I think we as Christians are all aware 09:11 that we would love to see peace 09:13 and the cries of peace everywhere 09:14 but we know this world is probably gonna get into 09:17 a situation where it's gonna get a whole lot worse 09:20 before it gets a whole lot better 09:22 and which is one of the cries that we have to understand 09:25 on a worldwide basis, although we'd like 09:27 everything to be, you know, smooth and no problems 09:31 but it's just not realistically 09:33 where the prophecy is telling us we're gonna end up. 09:34 What does the prophecy says, when they say peace, peace, 09:36 sudden destruction. 09:37 So we shouldn't worry about apocalypse per say, 09:41 but not pursue false peace. 09:43 It should be the peace that passes 09:44 all understands that Christ brings. 09:46 One last thing and then I'll let you make a comment. 09:49 But I was taken, while as the pope 09:51 walked up into his plane. 09:52 Did you know this, he took the time to talk 09:54 to a young woman standing near the door of the plane 09:57 and that's what we need to do again. 09:59 Yeah. Let's involve our young people. 10:00 Well, I think our young people being involved is critical. 10:03 There's no other way that as a church 10:05 we can continue to grow. 10:07 If you don't have young people who on the forefront 10:09 and really making a difference in this world 10:11 it's gonna be very tough to remove forward. 10:13 So let's just get them involved and let religious liberty rain. 10:18 One of my weakness is reading books 10:21 in meetings or in places 10:23 where I should be paying more attention. 10:25 Perhaps I've gotten a few more straight "A" 10:27 if I had been careful of that back in college. 10:30 But recently in a meeting I was reading a hardcover 10:34 pictorial history of the Middle Ages 10:37 and so a picture that startled me. 10:39 It was a painting from that era that showed 10:42 one of the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire 10:44 lying on the ground on his back, 10:47 in a position very much like a dog 10:50 and subservient position at the feet 10:52 of one of the popes of Rome. 10:54 I never knew that such objects of vision was required. 10:59 Recently when Pope Francis who has shown great personal 11:04 energy and compassion lent his office to 11:09 perhaps bringing peace in the Middle East 11:11 and invited both of the leaders of the Palestinian and Israeli 11:16 factions to his office, to his private quarters 11:20 to discuss peace I thought yes, 11:23 this is a possibility for peace. 11:25 And yes, perhaps this is history repeating itself, 11:29 acknowledging a religious force again. 11:34 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17