Welcome back to
the "Liberty Insider."
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Before the break
with guest Orlan Johnson
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we sort of gone
uphill down dale with--
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we were ending up
talking about young people
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and the
challenge in North America.
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Started off making an
illusion to the Middle East
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and I think
there is a connection.
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What happens in
other parts of the world
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you can easily say it's
somewhere else on earth.
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But I think young
people sensibility
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is affected by this.
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I know that the--
the Jesus movement and,
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and the
agitation with the anti-war
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agitation of young
people in the Vietnam era
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that was everything to do with
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what was happening in the world,
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they were unsettled.
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And right now with Afghanistan
winding down and in Iraq
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which immediately
called on the energy
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of mostly young people.
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Absolutely.
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I think the continuing
instability in the Middle East
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and, and I'm trying to
think how to characterize it
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but fundamentalist
Christians in the United States
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I think they
have done themselves
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or the society as
service by sort of emphasizing
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the apocalyptic nature
of the support of Israel.
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So that's sort
of gives the sense
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that might go up in a
big mushroom cloud again.
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I think we somehow need
to tell young people that
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yes, these things are important
but what's really important is
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where you're spiritually
and what you're scented on.
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Right.
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Now I think
that's truly important
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and its interesting
when you even go to meet
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at ambassador's offices now
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and they bring contentions
from their countries.
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There's generally someone
in the room that representing
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a young contingent of some
sort because they realize that
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if you don't deal with
issues that impact young people
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and it's the same issues
everywhere, unemployment,
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you know,
opportunities for education,
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the ability to be trained.
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You know, many of the terrible
things that happen in life is
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because of lack of
opportunity to do anything else.
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And if you can get
young people to be involved,
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I think that's critical and
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but I think the
point that you've made is,
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what's the most important
point for all young people.
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I think about it
with my own children
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and try to pray about it
for them regularly is that,
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they develop their own personal
relationship with Jesus Christ.
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They won't be able to
live their Christian life
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through my experiences.
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It has to be
something where they develop
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their own experiences
and it will have to be
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something that sometimes
its parents difficult to know.
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It will be independent of me.
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It's now and then you
can't save the situation.
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This is a negative example
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but it's really impressed on me.
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As a parent I've got teenage--
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well, one
teenager and one almost.
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And you know, I think
am I succeeding or failing,
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you know, they are
making the right choices.
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They think about, Samuel
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one of the most
godly man in the Bible.
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He sort of
struck out with his kids
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and on top of that Eli.
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We tend to think of
Eli is not doing great
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but he was a godly man.
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Yeah. Horrible sons.
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Yeah.
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But both of them I
think were praying and hoping
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and there's other
cases in the Bible
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where young people did
answered to the challenge.
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Absolutely.
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And I do believe that
young people have that idealism
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that I spoke about.
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But let's connect
again to the Middle East
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and I'm trying to join
two very disparate things.
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I've been startled
looking at those headlines
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we were talking
about a week or so ago
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now as we film this to
see images of Pope Francis
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in the Middle
East, best time for him
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is predicative
too back John Paul
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finished his
pontificate by literal pilgrims
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to the Middle
East leaning on a staff
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and I've
mentioned on this program
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but very telling
to me that John Paul,
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before he went to
Jerusalem stopped in Ramallah
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had that meeting with
Arafat and they signed
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an actual
agreement that Jerusalem
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couldn't be settled
without being involved.
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So I know that religious powers
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are very much involved in
this political conflict there.
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Absolutely.
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So to see Francis
there at the Wailing Wall,
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to see him the dividing wall,
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the security wall at a memorial.
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What did you
make off all of that?
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Well, you know--
Does that mean anything.
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Or is it over rights
for the Catholic Church?
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Well, you know, I think,
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from the Catholic
Church's standpoint,
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the one thing that
I've always thought
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they have done a good job
of-- is to create an environment
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where they can always been seen
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and always be in
the midst of things.
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And this probably no
better what I would call
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headline in the
world than, you know,
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you were helping to break
a peace in the Middle East.
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So for Francis to
say, I'd like to get
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the Palestinians
and Israel's together
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and to sit down and to talk
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and to come to
some point of peace.
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In reality to have
someone in that position,
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at the level to in
anyway be able to claim
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to be part of the peace process,
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I think that and of it
itself whether you want to say,
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it's really what the
church there wants to do
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or it's
propaganda or whatever it is
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I think it causes
people to be talking about you
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and I think that's part of
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what I think the
overall objective is.
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And you know, I wrote something
about this the other day
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and we got to be honest and fair
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that on the simplest
level it's admirable.
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Yeah.
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Who can say it's a bad thing
for this particular pope to be
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wanting to make peace.
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From a historical
protestant point of view
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it's sort of can be ominous
because it's a reminder of
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when the Roman Catholic
Church was a power broker
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not because they
were a facilitative
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but they were the authority,
they demanded that the kings
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and the rulers do what they say.
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And you know, it's
not a good dynamic.
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We're not there now. Right.
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But it just tells me
that things can shift.
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But, yes, I really admire
this pope and his initiatives,
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so I think it's good.
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Yeah. I think it's good.
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I admire the initiatives
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but I think it also begs
the question as to, you know,
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what we're doing
and also being clear on,
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sometimes when
there is this cry of unity
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and we should all be on accord
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that you also still have to
be balanced in that approach
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because if this world
were to every "get unified"
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in the name of religion,
I don't think they would be
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going to church on Sabbath,
that we recognized the day
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and that's why we still
have to be always vigilant
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and always in my
opinion working constantly
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to remind people
about religious liberties
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and what we really believe.
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Well, in some
ways that we could have
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a whole program on this
it was trendy as long as
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30, 40 years ago
for the Christian world
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and the World Council of
Churches led the way on that
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to be pursuing
unity from a point of
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everyone combining together
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and sort of getting
rid of the differences
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and we unite around a
common sort of a description.
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I think that time is
passed and I don't hear
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especially out of Rome
that sort of a call anymore.
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The call now is under
headship to acknowledge
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the primacy of the power
of Rome and the prerogatives,
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and its spiritual role
and that's not good either
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because that goes back
against to the reformation.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But unity, if it
were to come on anything,
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political and spiritual,
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unity is not just
come by our own feeling.
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It either comes two ways.
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That either you
put away your beliefs
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or you adopt
contrary in emulative beliefs.
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So we used to use the word,
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no I've
forgotten it, syncretism.
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Syncretism in religious
circles where you sort of mix
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the opposites
together and make a stew of
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that's very dangerous.
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Right.
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And not likely to
happen but where you
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compromise your principles
that's not good either.
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So unity is great
but unless it's qualified
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it's either
meaningless or dangerous.
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I couldn't agree
more and let's face it.
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The Catholic
Church is no different
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than any other
organization there
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trying to figure out how
to continue to have growth,
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how to continue to be relevant,
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how to continue to impact their
young people and young adults
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because they have had
some issues that they have been
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grabbling with, that
they are trying to figure out
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how to do a better job with it.
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So it's, it's admirable
and it's, in my opinion
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the type of
thing that is you know,
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apple pie and you
just really can't say
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this is something wrong with it,
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but we still have
to always be cautious.
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But it is not wrong.
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It's a very telling movement
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because its got
historical analogs
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that should remind
us of what once was
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and even some prophetic
intimations of the world
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moving towards as were
saying, a false sort of a unity.
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But as far as the actual
event, amazing and we'll see if,
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if this pope can
succeed where president's failed
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before, Jimmy Carter
and Bill Clinton and so
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and they have
all tried their best
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and not much good
is coming out of it
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and along the
way bizarre things.
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Yasser Arafat as I
remember got he peace prize
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and what's that?
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Nobel Peace Prize.
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I think we as
Christians are all aware
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that we would love to see peace
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and the cries
of peace everywhere
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but we know this world
is probably gonna get into
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a situation where it's
gonna get a whole lot worse
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before it gets
a whole lot better
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and which is one of the
cries that we have to understand
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on a worldwide
basis, although we'd like
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everything to be, you
know, smooth and no problems
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but it's just not realistically
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where the prophecy is
telling us we're gonna end up.
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What does the prophecy says,
when they say peace, peace,
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sudden destruction.
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So we shouldn't worry
about apocalypse per say,
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but not pursue false peace.
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It should be the
peace that passes
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all understands
that Christ brings.
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One last thing and then
I'll let you make a comment.
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But I was taken,
while as the pope
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walked up into his plane.
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Did you know this,
he took the time to talk
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to a young woman standing
near the door of the plane
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and that's what
we need to do again.
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Yeah. Let's
involve our young people.
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Well, I think our young people
being involved is critical.
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There's no other
way that as a church
00:10:03.63\00:10:05.39
we can continue to grow.
00:10:05.42\00:10:07.04
If you don't have young
people who on the forefront
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and really making a
difference in this world
00:10:09.82\00:10:11.71
it's gonna be very
tough to remove forward.
00:10:11.74\00:10:13.82
So let's just get them involved
and let religious liberty rain.
00:10:13.85\00:10:18.95
One of my
weakness is reading books
00:10:18.98\00:10:21.85
in meetings or in places
00:10:21.88\00:10:23.31
where I should be
paying more attention.
00:10:23.34\00:10:25.31
Perhaps I've gotten
a few more straight "A"
00:10:25.34\00:10:27.96
if I had been careful
of that back in college.
00:10:27.99\00:10:30.93
But recently in a meeting
I was reading a hardcover
00:10:30.96\00:10:34.32
pictorial history
of the Middle Ages
00:10:34.35\00:10:37.29
and so a picture
that startled me.
00:10:37.32\00:10:39.57
It was a painting
from that era that showed
00:10:39.60\00:10:42.33
one of the emperors
of the Holy Roman Empire
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lying on the ground on his back,
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in a position
very much like a dog
00:10:47.69\00:10:49.97
and subservient
position at the feet
00:10:50.00\00:10:52.64
of one of the popes of Rome.
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I never knew that such
objects of vision was required.
00:10:54.69\00:10:59.69
Recently when Pope Francis
who has shown great personal
00:10:59.72\00:11:04.85
energy and
compassion lent his office to
00:11:04.88\00:11:09.17
perhaps bringing
peace in the Middle East
00:11:09.20\00:11:11.77
and invited both of the leaders
of the Palestinian and Israeli
00:11:11.80\00:11:16.71
factions to his
office, to his private quarters
00:11:16.74\00:11:20.77
to discuss peace I thought yes,
00:11:20.80\00:11:23.48
this is a possibility for peace.
00:11:23.51\00:11:25.39
And yes, perhaps this is
history repeating itself,
00:11:25.42\00:11:29.02
acknowledging a
religious force again.
00:11:29.05\00:11:34.41
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:34.44\00:11:38.01