Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Orlan Johnson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000259B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break with guest Orlan Johnson, 00:11 we were riffing on about 00:13 some of the problems initially with Islam, 00:15 but it's really a greater problem with Christianity, 00:18 not so much that the Christians are radical 00:21 or extreme or revolutionary, the reverse. 00:25 Too many Christians are milk toast, 00:27 quiet or even worse than that, perhaps going to church 00:32 and then living totally different during the week. 00:35 Yeah, I think to me 00:37 one of the most important things 00:38 that we can do is really just understand, 00:41 you can't hide your Christianity. 00:42 I think you have to be upfront about it 00:44 because if people know that you are supposedly a Christian 00:47 and you don't act that way 00:48 or you are supposedly Seventh-day Adventist, 00:50 you don't act that way. 00:51 Then what it does in my opinion, 00:52 it ends up confusing them to understand 00:55 what your real principles are, 00:56 I mean there's nothing worse 00:57 than living an unprincipled life, 00:59 whether you go in one direction or another. 01:02 You know, and I think that's why the Bible talks about, 01:04 you know, lukewarm is about as bad as it gets. 01:08 The important things that we do in the North American Division, 01:11 mostly at the union level 01:12 but it often comes up to the General Conference 01:14 or NAD level is defending Seventh-day Adventists 01:18 in the workplace. 01:19 And I'm sure you've noticed it, 01:21 well before you came into this present job, 01:24 that the people that are living their life 01:27 and making a clear witness through everything 01:30 they do in the workplace. 01:31 When a conflict arises, 01:33 where they're asked to work on a Saturday 01:35 or something like that. 01:38 Then there's no question, it's well known. 01:40 'Cause these persons, they've got integrity 01:42 and they're more likely to get it. 01:43 It's when they are hidden Adventist 01:46 or, I remember one case, 01:48 the employer discovered that person on Saturday, 01:51 I think it was a local race track, 01:53 well, he says why should 01:54 I give him Sabbath off, you know. 01:55 That's tough part. 01:57 You want your prisoners 01:58 and your members to live the consistent life, 02:01 and I think one of the strongest things 02:03 we do in the Adventist church 02:04 is to protect the Sabbath accommodation, 02:06 I think we've done that extremely well over the years 02:09 and I think that's probably given us more of a recognition 02:13 as a church than anything else and-- 02:16 And it's really interesting because specially nowadays 02:19 you have Adventists that are in church every week, 02:21 but they seem to come from all different walks of life 02:24 and the ability to tell them, that we would like 02:27 for you to continue to live a consistent life 02:29 and then but also understand that when you fall off, 02:31 that Christ still loves you and you can come back. 02:34 Trying to find their appropriate balance 02:36 is always been a tough part of the job there. 02:38 Well, it's a balance of witness that you give me an opening, 02:43 that will link nicely with what we opened the program, 02:45 was talking about fanatical extremist of another religion 02:50 and of course religious liberty 02:51 we defend the right of anyone to believe anything. 02:53 Absolutely. 02:54 There is truth and error but for religious freedom, 02:56 it's the right to follow your conscience, 02:59 but how do we as Christians 03:05 and particularly a Seventh-day Adventist, 03:06 how do we rejuvenate not just ourselves 03:09 but the whole-- a group thing, 03:13 it's like we become active and vibrant 03:16 and, you know, not people 03:18 that will grab school girls out of a environment like that, 03:22 but people that make a difference in society 03:24 that we are catalyst for change. 03:26 I mean, the word that comes to mind is revival. 03:28 How do we get there? 03:29 I think part of what we have to-- in my opinion do 03:32 is go back to the basics of understanding that, 03:35 trying to make an impact in your own concentric circle 03:38 wherever it is it's key. 03:40 I think sometimes we as Adventist think that 03:43 unless you're making an impact 03:44 at the highest level as possible 03:46 that it's really not worth your time and energy, 03:49 but I think it goes back to the grassroots 03:51 of touching your community first, 03:53 touching your neighbors first, 03:54 you know making an impact there and when you do that, 03:58 I think that's where the revival begins. 04:00 I don't think it begins with a huge 04:02 ten and thousands of people. 04:03 I think it begins by your neighbor 04:05 seeing you every Sabbath go to church 04:07 and one day wondering, 04:09 you know, what are you doing? 04:10 And then you being able to tell. 04:12 I'll tell you a perfect example. 04:13 When I was out of the country one time, 04:15 I had a flood in my house 04:17 and I was not able to get there. 04:19 And I called some friends of mine from church, 04:21 and they were able to come by and they kind of, 04:23 you know, got out the carpet called groups 04:26 that would come in and help out 04:27 and I had this big bin outside, we were throwing away things. 04:30 And one day somebody drove up 04:32 while I was throwing something out 04:33 and said hey, I saw some people 04:35 at your house a couple of days ago. 04:36 Who were those guys? People watched them. 04:38 Yeah, and I said, well, they were 04:39 just guys in my church, and he said 04:42 and they were here on Super Bowl Sunday 04:44 to help to clean out your basement 04:46 because of this, and I said yeah, 04:48 and he said what church do you go to? 04:50 And it caused us to have a little bit of a conversation 04:53 and I wasn't looking for this individual, 04:55 I didn't get up that morning with the idea, 04:57 I'm gonna throw out some trash and witness. 04:59 But sometimes just living a life 05:01 where you are able to be able 05:03 to just give somebody something, 05:05 and it caused me to think about it little bit, 05:07 definitely to me is where revival really begins. 05:10 Absolutely, so it's-- I wish I could remember a hymn 05:13 but a musical song comes-- Cinderella comes to mind 05:17 in my own little corner of the world. 05:19 Yeah. Yeah. 05:20 Joe Lowes Dean actually has a nice phrase. 05:23 We say just bloom where you plant it. 05:25 Stop worrying about being able to make a difference in places 05:28 where you don't exist, 05:29 but if you can make an impact in whatever circle you're in, 05:32 to me that's when revival begins. 05:34 Well, I'll turn it on its head. 05:36 Sometimes with the religious liberty or public affairs, 05:39 and religious liberty week meet and contact movers 05:43 and shakers in the government or in society. 05:46 And we think that's good and it's better than not. 05:48 But it seems to me that, 05:49 that moment will be more significant 05:51 if they have an image from word of mouth 05:55 and perhaps their own life come in contact with Adventist. 05:58 So just for some functionary to shake their hand, 06:01 you know, I'm this and that and the other in the church. 06:04 They're doing that all day long. 06:05 But for to really resonate 06:07 there has to be something back of it. 06:09 Something positive. Yeah. 06:11 I mean, you know in the name of Adventism in my opinion 06:15 it starts out with being Christian. 06:16 You have to be Christ like first. 06:18 Because once you can impact somebody 06:20 with the love of Jesus Christ, 06:22 then I think they want to ask you more about the life 06:24 that you live and want to know about your doctrines, 06:27 want to know about your health message, 06:28 want to know about things of that nature. 06:30 And that's why to me it's still important 06:32 to give someone Jesus 06:34 and not because you think you're gonna save them, 06:36 but because maybe one day 06:38 you may need that person to give Jesus back to you. 06:40 And I think what's the plus 06:41 with their religious liberty messages 06:42 that I laid it to you before, 06:43 we are not or shouldn't be just pushing 06:46 for religious liberty to help ourselves. 06:48 Absolutely not. 06:49 To make life easier for our operation, 06:51 or our institutions, that is a byproduct 06:54 but we should be promoting all people. 06:58 And I'm really happy to see that 06:59 we're doing more of that in our church. 07:01 We're doing it at the NAD where we're actually 07:04 sending in briefs and support for example, 07:07 you know, a young lady who... 07:08 'Amicus Brief' friend of the court is here. 07:09 Yeah, that she could not, 07:11 you know, where you have job, on the job 07:13 because of certain, you know, 07:15 style issues and things of that nature 07:17 and although that has nothing to do 07:18 with Seventh-day Adventism, 07:19 we as a church have come and said that's wrong. 07:21 Well, it has a lot to do with their principles. 07:23 Absolutely. Yeah. 07:24 And that to me is really the key. 07:26 Coming in and being consistent with who you are, 07:29 it's not about simply being self serving, 07:31 but it's a lot more just doing what Christ would do. 07:34 When you think about when He was on this earth, 07:36 He'd mingled with everyone. 07:37 He put Himself in a position 07:39 where people would question Him, 07:40 but that's what life is really all about. 07:43 Didn't it says that He went about seeking people's good? 07:46 That's true. 07:48 And I think that was the power of Jesus 07:50 that someone could inherently recognize 07:52 this person's here to help me. 07:54 And we've got to be careful, 07:55 we don't condemn people by our godliness. 07:59 Which we don't usually have. Right. 08:02 But I think we can help 08:03 and religious liberty has been a great help 08:06 and I think more and more 08:07 with some of their contacts in Washington and so on. 08:09 We're seen as people that have an interest way 08:13 outside our sectarian organizational 08:17 and it's-- that's good. 08:18 And I know you're making a strong lead on that already. 08:20 Oh, I think we're moving in the right direction. 08:22 I think we have a strong team 08:24 that really is looking forward to making a difference. 08:27 But I believe that if we can just simply go out 08:30 and be consistent and be Christian 08:32 in everything that we do, 08:34 I think everything else starts to take care of itself. 08:36 I mean, I'd love that anybody would say, 08:38 oh, Seventh-day Adventist, 08:40 I mean, we know about our health message, 08:42 we know about the Sabbath 08:43 but it'd be great if someone says, 08:44 you know, those are the kindest people 08:45 I've ever met. 08:46 And in case with that love that you impact people 08:49 that they really want to know more about who you are 08:52 and the God that you serve 08:53 because when they first meet you, 08:55 it doesn't hit you. 08:56 It reminds me of when Paul, 08:58 you know, when he came out of his blindness, 09:00 he saw Ananias. 09:02 First person that he sees- He didn't want to be there. 09:04 Yeah. He didn't want to be there. 09:05 But suppose Ananias went about the wrong way 09:08 and the first interaction 09:09 Paul had with Christianity was a bad one. 09:12 Who knows where things would have gone? 09:13 Yeah, it's true. 09:14 So it's interesting to think about your life 09:16 as treating somebody supposedly 09:19 you may be the only Christian they ever see. 09:21 And what impact have you made in their life 09:24 to want to draw them close to the God. 09:25 Yeah. 09:26 It's a heavy responsibility we all have that sometimes 09:30 we might be the only face of truth that they will see. 09:34 And the truth exists a little beyond this. 09:37 But how we present that is vital. 09:39 And unfortunately back to the beginning 09:41 I think Islam is being poorly represented at the moment. 09:46 And we need to somehow help it if anything, 09:50 the word comes to mind, give it a reformation. 09:53 Well, I think in terms of reformation 09:55 that any extremist views are always gonna be 09:58 considered to be something 10:00 that's taking people in the wrong direction. 10:02 It's so important as we as Christians understand 10:04 that it's never gonna be about us, 10:06 that it's always gonna be about God. 10:08 And if we can get to the point in our lives 10:09 where we realize it's about elevating Him 10:12 and drawing more men and women close to Him. 10:14 That to me is the powerful aspect of religious liberty 10:17 we can engage in and hopefully as Christians 10:19 we'll continue to do so. 10:23 There can be no greater loss for a parent 10:26 than to lose their child. 10:28 So it's no mystery that much of the world 10:31 is stirred over the very public abduction in Nigeria 10:37 of 2 or 300 young women from their school 10:40 to parts unknown 10:42 but it's indicated by the leader of Boko Haram, 10:45 the Islamist revolutionary organization there 10:49 that has taken them, 10:50 they may well be sold into slavery 10:53 or sold into forced marriages and along with that 10:58 as many of those girls were Christian 11:00 forced into a new religion, in this case, Islam. 11:03 We live in a strange world where in this case Islam 11:07 but different times and places, other religions have decided 11:11 that they can force someone in their community 11:15 or another community nearby, forced them to believing 11:19 as they believe at the edge of the sword, 11:22 it used to be that Islam symbol was conversion by the sword, 11:26 not by sword's loud clashing, 11:28 but by deeds of love and mercy says the hymn. 11:32 We too should be working toward deeds of love and mercy. 11:37 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-02-12