Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest Orlan Johnson,
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we were again reminiscing
about Europe and the Huganas
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and it all
derive from our recent
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Great Controversy
bus tour of Europe.
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Now you were along, this was--
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you've been to Europe before.
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You studied at
Collonges in France.
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I did.
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I spend my first year
of college in Collonges,
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and which was a
little bit unusual
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because most students
go in their junior year
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but I've taken a few
years of French in high school
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and decided if I
didn't go next year,
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I probably never will.
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You probably found all
the friends around Europe,
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and that was almost like
the Collonges experience,
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so the new built experience.
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It was a little bit different,
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I was explaining to people
on the bus back in 1980-1981.
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We actually used to just
hitchhike everywhere we went.
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That seems worst. Yeah.
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We used to just, you
know, they call it fair to stop
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and you would
just go out and you--
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and we traveled all over Europe.
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Your own children, would
you recommend them to do that?
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Oh, absolutely not,
and I've teased my mother
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couple of times saying that
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when they send me
to Europe that year,
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and I thought it
was one of the most
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irresponsible things
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they've ever done
as being parents but...
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My sister went to New Walden
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and I used to tell my
parents the same thing.
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But that was the standard
pattern for students then,
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but I think that gave
you a wonderful background...
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Oh, absolutely.
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Not just the knowledge of Europe
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but of Adventism and...
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That was quite powerful
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and to be there nestled on
the silhouette of mountains
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and that's why
when we were driving
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around the Great
Controversy Tour,
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I would always
look up at the mountains
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and it reminded of Collonges
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because I lived in la-Rouge zone
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in the boy's dormitory
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and right behind
you just saw these
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great silhouette
of mountains behind us
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and you were just kind
of in this little valley
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and you could actually
see the Jet d'Eau of Geneva
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from the dormitory I
was in, quite a place..
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Mountain is the wrong term,
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it's really a
vertical cliff face.
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It really is.
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A solid rock face and
you probably know the height
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but I would say it's at least
3,000 vertical feet of stone.
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Well, you know,
it was unbelievable
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as there were lot of students,
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they used to climb
the face of that mountain
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while we were there,
some to their parallel.
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I made a resolution I'm
never going to send my son there
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because they were saying that
no students that have fallen
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but I think but young
people now and then fall off.
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I know my son, he would
want to stand on the edge
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with this toes curled over
and then brag to someone else
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that he could
jump off the tower.
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No, but there was a
nice little winding road
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you could take a safe
route up there as well,
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so we did that quite a bit,
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but there were
some that actually
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they scaled the
face of the mountain
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it went straight up, so
it was really incredible.
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The school area is really
throwing several generations
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of Adventists
ministers and missionaries.
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Absolutely.
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I know that French
missionaries in particular
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have gone through
many parts of Africa
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and the Middle
East said it, you know,
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I'm sure that
gave you a sense of
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as a Seventh-day Adventist
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that we have a mission
and a goal to reach out
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and to do
something in the world realm.
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It was probably
one of the first times
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I had been in an
institution where I was around
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so many
international individuals.
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I mean we had probably
every imaginable language
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spoken there on campus.
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Actually Dr. Ganune
and I actually met there.
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Now he is an
associate of Dr. John Graz
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in the General Conference
Religious Liberty Department.
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Absolutely.
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And when I came to the NAD,
I actually had not seen him,
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since I was at
Collonges 30 years before
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and I can still remember
meeting with a lot of friends
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from Africa, my
roommate who is from Cameroon,
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which is very interesting
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we're in the
Great Controversy tour,
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I was talking to Dr. Warri
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and he actually
knew this individual
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who I haven't seen in
years and told me where he was,
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I'm looking to
reach out to him as well
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but Collonges was just
an exciting experience.
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We had probably
about 20 Americans
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over there to time I was
there and still keeping contact
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with a lot of
those individuals today,
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so it was a great experience.
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So you got locked in early
on the church infrastructure.
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Now your mother has been
a church school teacher for
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and principal for many years.
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Absolutely.
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But you-- something
didn't take early on,
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you didn't
become a school teacher.
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You didn't become a minister.
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You didn't become a missionary.
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What did you become?
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I actually probably
became what most people way back
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in the day thought
Adventist should never become
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and I was an attorney.
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Yeah.
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And I've practiced
law for about 25 years
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and actually my father
and I used to always think
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my mother worked for the church,
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I would say for almost 40 years,
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teacher, principal,
superintend of schools,
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risk management,
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I mean I was probably seen
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every aspect of the
church growing up possible,
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but thought I
would never find myself
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anywhere near her
position for the church.
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When you say thought, you were
determined that you wouldn't?
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Well, I, you know, sometimes
you try never to say never,
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but in my mind it was
not on the bucket list,
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I'd put it that way.
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You know, we
haven't rehearsed this.
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I'm sure our viewers
know it's not rehearsed,
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but I didn't know,
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but in some ways I can
sense echoes of myself.
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My father was a church leader
in the temperance department
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and as a kid I used
to trail along with him
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and you know, I
somehow get into debates
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with different church
leaders and evangelists
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and they invariably
tapped me on the head.
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You gonna be a
pastor like your father.
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And I had nothing
against being a pastor
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but I didn't want to
be a clone of my father.
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You want to be
yourself. Right. Right.
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So he used to say there was
so anything but anything but.
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So I was sort of you know like--
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I was running away from it.
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And it's only a incredible
chain of circumstances
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that brought me really
back to where my father
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would have loved
me at the beginning.
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Well, you know, and I
think that's real good point
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because sometimes
you think that you know
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where you're gonna end up
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and through very
unusual stream of events
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you find out that the
Lord is actually preparing you
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for something
completely different
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and in my mind the
uniqueness at the time,
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I didn't have any family members
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that were lawyers,
and I had a lot of cousins
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and family members that
were in the field of medicine.
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So I actually was kind
of branching out on my own
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and it was a great
opportunity to kind of like
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carve a new niche
in our family per se
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and it was, you know,
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one of the most exciting things.
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Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
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Lawyers know all
about prerequisites.
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That's right, that's right.
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I mean today, you
know, there are few other
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family members that are lawyers.
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My daughter is thinking
about going to law school
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although I've tried
to talk her out of it,
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but that's probably
where she is going to end up,
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but I think it's
been exciting opportunity
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but the
opportunity to be here with NAD
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is exciting as
well and I think...
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Well, of course
with religious liberty
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legal background is more
than passing significance.
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It helps.
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We're dealing a
lot with the law.
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It helps and it
allows you to get through
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what I would call
the type of thinking that
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you can probably
use to be helpful
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in this
particular area, the logic,
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the understanding precedent,
the ability to kind of look
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its statues on the four
corners and do interpretations
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and so it can be
helpful to the church as well.
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Now before your pre-law studies
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did you focused in on history?
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You know, not really.
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I know, history is one
of the not prerequisites
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but it's pretty much a
usual base for lawyering.
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I actually ended up
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being an economics
major and it's a real...
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That's not the
usual combination.
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No, but my
combination ended up that way
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because after my
first year at Collonges
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and I transferred
to Andrews University
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and I was wondering
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what degree can I
finish in three years from now,
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and economics
actually kind of fit the bill
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and l liked the idea.
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We took a few classes
and that's how I became
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an econ major
with the French minor
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and that's how
it all came together
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and from there I
found myself in law school.
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It's interesting events
that I toyed with not the--
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I never thought I
would take economics per se
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but in college I particularly
took cost accounting
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and macro
economics, micro economics
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that had nothing
to do with my study
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but I was interested in it too.
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Oh, it's good stuff.
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And it really helped you to
kind of have a better idea of
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kind of how the world works
00:08:04.98\00:08:06.10
from a macro and
micro standpoint,
00:08:06.13\00:08:07.50
I've enjoyed it.
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And we don't have a lot of time
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but if you
could tell it quickly,
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there is a very
interesting story
00:08:11.23\00:08:13.86
not too many years ago
00:08:13.89\00:08:15.14
in the aftermath
of the international
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and US economic collapse,
00:08:18.95\00:08:20.80
one of the newses
story was the Madoff scandal.
00:08:20.83\00:08:24.94
Yeah. Yeah.
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Lot of money went vest on that,
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but you helped pull
some of it back, didn't you?
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Well, you know, I
was really blessed.
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I had an opportunity to be
appointed by President Obama
00:08:30.59\00:08:33.17
to be the chairman of
00:08:33.20\00:08:34.23
the Securities
Investor Protection Corporation
00:08:34.26\00:08:36.07
which took the lead
on all of the issues
00:08:36.10\00:08:38.02
that are related to
failed brokerage firms
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and when I came
on board in 2009,
00:08:40.62\00:08:42.98
one of the big issues
was the Bernie Madoff scandal
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and part of the work we
were doing was going out
00:08:45.96\00:08:48.49
and trying to see we
could recover funds and...
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And billions have gone missing.
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Billions have gone missing.
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Probably out of
pocket maybe in an area of
00:08:53.01\00:08:55.03
$25 billion for individuals
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and we were
very, very fortunate,
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we worked very hard
and we were looking for
00:09:00.19\00:09:02.98
a lot of ways to
really get funds back
00:09:03.01\00:09:05.42
and we found one individual
that we pursued heavily
00:09:05.45\00:09:08.60
and we were
fortunate that eventually
00:09:08.63\00:09:11.43
they decided to come to an
agreement to give back funds
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and we got back $7.3
billion from one individual.
00:09:14.45\00:09:19.28
Maybe I've to tell you
a story of a little firm.
00:09:19.31\00:09:21.59
But there was a woman
that her husband had died.
00:09:21.62\00:09:23.81
Her husband had died.
00:09:23.84\00:09:25.06
But she was in
possession of all of this money,
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not really
ill-gotten from her perspective
00:09:27.42\00:09:29.95
but it was money
00:09:29.98\00:09:31.25
that the people
have been defrauded off.
00:09:31.28\00:09:33.11
Yeah.
00:09:33.14\00:09:34.18
And you spoke to her
and initially she resisted,
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then she called
you up and said that
00:09:36.82\00:09:38.09
she's sort of a
social prior in her circle
00:09:38.12\00:09:40.30
and she decided to give it back.
00:09:40.33\00:09:41.80
And that's what had happened,
00:09:41.83\00:09:43.33
you know, the
interesting thing about Madoff,
00:09:43.36\00:09:45.39
he ended up taking only
money from close friends.
00:09:45.42\00:09:47.89
And so, all of a
sudden she was in a situation
00:09:47.92\00:09:51.43
where people in her synagogue
and people in her neighborhood,
00:09:51.46\00:09:54.52
they had all been harm
00:09:54.55\00:09:55.89
so you couldn't
really move around as freely
00:09:55.92\00:09:59.01
and she decided, you know, what?
00:09:59.04\00:10:00.99
I'm little too old
for this, you know,
00:10:01.02\00:10:02.90
and plus I've other--
00:10:02.93\00:10:04.07
Yeah. It must be nice.
00:10:04.10\00:10:05.27
Yeah, I mean and to
have the ability to give back
00:10:05.30\00:10:09.48
$7.3 billion out of your
bank account is something that
00:10:09.51\00:10:14.45
I could not even
conceptualize to be honest
00:10:14.48\00:10:17.02
and to see it happen
00:10:17.05\00:10:18.61
and to make those funds
available to the Madoff victims
00:10:18.64\00:10:21.96
was a
tremendous victory for all.
00:10:21.99\00:10:23.72
And let's, isn't the largest
ever recovery that you've made
00:10:23.75\00:10:26.16
Largest single
US asset forfeiture
00:10:26.19\00:10:29.02
in the United States history,
which is really incredible.
00:10:29.05\00:10:31.82
So you've got a real
notch in your legal belt
00:10:31.85\00:10:34.80
and the memory they
have put on the wall.
00:10:34.83\00:10:36.44
Well, it was probably
some of the most exciting time
00:10:36.47\00:10:38.78
that I've had
00:10:38.81\00:10:40.04
and the opportunity to really
be able to kind of focus on
00:10:40.07\00:10:43.76
how you can get involved in
something that can help people.
00:10:43.79\00:10:46.53
What I've really found that was
00:10:46.56\00:10:48.22
when you go out and try
to do the work of the Lord
00:10:48.25\00:10:50.51
and hopefully
put it in His hands.
00:10:50.54\00:10:52.33
I try to find out
how can I be useful
00:10:52.36\00:10:54.90
but then you find
out you know what,
00:10:54.93\00:10:56.38
I just got to put these
in the hands of the Lord,
00:10:56.41\00:10:58.22
because through God
anything can happen.
00:10:58.25\00:11:00.57
The Madoff
situation was something
00:11:00.60\00:11:02.30
that worked
very, very well for us,
00:11:02.33\00:11:04.46
but at the end of the day
00:11:04.49\00:11:05.63
it's really about helping people
00:11:05.66\00:11:07.11
and it's the same
thing with religious liberty,
00:11:07.14\00:11:08.75
go out, help others.
00:11:08.78\00:11:09.96
Do what you can.
00:11:09.99\00:11:11.02
Don't alleviate yourself,
00:11:11.05\00:11:12.16
just alleviate
God wherever you can.
00:11:12.19\00:11:16.32
When I was kid, I was
taken by many fairytales
00:11:16.35\00:11:19.91
and I remember there is a
story of a pencil upper tower
00:11:19.94\00:11:23.15
and I think a hair was used
as a bit of rescue mechanism.
00:11:23.18\00:11:26.63
You know, towers can
feature in a lot of stories,
00:11:26.66\00:11:29.85
there is a sign of strength
00:11:29.88\00:11:32.08
that is we
heard on this program,
00:11:32.11\00:11:34.53
there's a true story of a
Mary Durand, Marie Durand,
00:11:34.56\00:11:39.73
who for 38 years not
20 some years, 38 years
00:11:39.76\00:11:45.74
was kept in the
Tower of Constance
00:11:45.77\00:11:47.61
because of her
faith, because of her family
00:11:47.64\00:11:50.75
holding the same faith
00:11:50.78\00:11:52.28
and yet that woman
there all those years
00:11:52.31\00:11:55.04
living as a prisoner
under not just restriction
00:11:55.07\00:11:58.38
but demeaning circumstances
00:11:58.41\00:12:00.15
living in a communal
prison in an enclosed tower
00:12:00.18\00:12:03.04
with guards watching
every minute of the day,
00:12:03.07\00:12:05.51
could scratch
into the stone and work
00:12:05.54\00:12:08.93
that I saw clearly as
I looked at it recently.
00:12:08.96\00:12:12.09
Resist.
00:12:12.12\00:12:13.95
Resist those that
would change your faith.
00:12:13.98\00:12:16.79
Resist those that
would intimidate you
00:12:16.82\00:12:19.29
into living differently.
00:12:19.32\00:12:20.67
Resist as the Bible
says, resist the devil
00:12:20.70\00:12:24.51
and he will flee from you.
00:12:24.54\00:12:27.32
There's a great challenge
from those people of faith
00:12:27.35\00:12:29.86
of previous years.
00:12:29.89\00:12:33.64
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:33.67\00:12:37.05