Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Orlan Johnson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000257B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break with guest Orlan Johnson, 00:10 we were reminiscing about, 00:12 you know, really a life changing experience 00:15 with 22 other religious liberty leaders 00:18 and a few relatives and interested people, 00:23 but by and large we were people involved in religious liberty 00:27 touring through three countries of western Europe, 00:31 but looking particularly for evidence of faith 00:34 and persecution I guess, 00:36 but persecution showed the faith 00:38 and you'd mentioned the highlight for you 00:40 was that second Sabbath in... 00:43 Yeah, the church of-- Museum of the Desert. 00:45 Museum of the Desert. Yes. 00:47 And this was Albigenses as I remember. 00:49 Absolutely. 00:50 Which is another phase of the reform movement 00:53 that was represented in Northern Italy 00:55 by the Walt Denzy's. 00:58 This was in southern France not to far from Montpellier. 01:02 Yeah. 01:04 So, tell me more about those because... 01:05 Well.... It was a rich experience... 01:08 It really was and when I first heard 01:10 we gonna be having church under the trees, 01:12 I didn't know exactly what that meant. 01:13 Yeah. 01:14 And actually it was probably my wife's favorite as well 01:17 and when we got there and to see just the-- 01:20 just the set up, it just felt like 01:22 you were in this kind of Shangri-La environment. 01:25 You know, the breeze was blowing nicely. 01:27 All the chairs were set up, 01:29 but then that was juxtaposed against having a little burst 01:32 with the radio board in there, 01:35 so you kind of had a chance to take a look 01:36 at the past and the present, 01:38 all combined into one and just the idea 01:41 that the people they were just so happy to have us there. 01:44 And there were, how many would you think maybe 80, 90? 01:48 I think about 80 or 90 were there. 01:49 A French seventh-day Adventist from several churches 01:52 who'd gather together to hear 01:55 some of the religious liberty leaders, 01:57 but to share food. 02:00 The food was something... Yeah. 02:01 We had what I would call the French version of potluck 02:06 which I thought was quite interesting. 02:08 We just had all kinds of things to eat just quiches 02:12 from every walk of life you could imagine. 02:14 Yeah, it wasn't quite your bean stew 02:16 and your scalloped potato. 02:18 No, it's very different and but what I also enjoy 02:22 just the salad and the fruits everything was so fresh, 02:25 and I was speaking with one of the ladies there 02:27 and she said, "Well, did you enjoy the cucumber." 02:28 I said, "They were fabulous." 02:29 She said, "Well, I grew all of them in my backyard." 02:32 And, you know, you just had these view 02:34 of just a different lifestyle completely. 02:37 It was idyllic. 02:38 And of course made more idyllic 02:40 by the fact that it was a Seventh-day Sabbath 02:42 and it was a sacred moment 02:44 and I'm sure like me you're impressed 02:46 that first it seemed sort of odd, 02:48 they had a one of a better word, a raised lectern. 02:52 Yeah. 02:53 That Dr. Graz stood up there with Gilbert Wari, 02:57 division president from one of the African divisions. 03:00 The eastern division. He used to preach. 03:01 Yeah. 03:03 And wasn't really meant for two people 03:05 but they stood up so high and I'm thinking sort of odd, 03:07 you know, a little group 03:08 but then they said that this was an actual lectern 03:10 I think that would have been used. 03:11 Absolutely. 03:13 Some hundreds of years ago 03:14 by people worshipping in the same place. 03:17 Well, you know, it was the old vintage soup box look. 03:19 Yeah. 03:20 Where they were much higher than us 03:22 and actually I found it kind of intriguing. 03:24 It's always interesting when you're hearing 03:25 multiple languages in one sermons 03:27 well, and you go back and forth and someone like myself 03:30 who I spend time in Collonges and I learned to speak French 03:33 and I hadn't really practiced in a long time. 03:35 My mind was kind of getting confused, 03:37 almost going back and forth 03:38 as to which one I should really be listening to 03:40 but it was quite a powerful sermon by Gilbert Wari. 03:43 I'll make a joke with about John because, 03:47 you know, I appreciate him to the limit, 03:49 he's been on this program many times 03:51 and he is a fluent French speaker, 03:53 that's his language and he does pretty good in English, 03:57 but I can tell he gets his mind tied up in knots 04:00 going between English and French 04:02 and sometimes I'll tease him 04:03 because he will mispronounce a French word because... 04:06 That's right. That's right. 04:09 In his mind he is moved from French to English 04:11 so he's in English and trying to say a French word to you 04:14 but he thinks it's an English word 04:17 so he'd give a English spin. 04:19 Sometime while Dr. Wari was preaching, 04:22 John's interpretation might be slightly off 04:24 and then he would say it in French 04:25 and then John would say in English. 04:26 Well, we all had that experience. 04:27 And we were going back and forth a bit but... 04:29 It's not uncommon 04:30 and some of our viewers may not have seen this, 04:32 but different church leaders traveling around the world 04:34 often have to have translators. 04:35 Absolutely. 04:37 And almost for that exception 04:38 as the translation is preceding, 04:40 someone in the audience will yell out. 04:42 No, it's this. 04:44 That was quite a-- that was quite powerful, 04:46 but the sermon was powerful. It was. 04:48 It's one of the best sermons I've heard. 04:50 The opportunity was just great to be there 04:51 and I found that to be really 04:53 one of the highlights of the tour for me. 04:54 In fact I need to tell our viewers the topic. 04:57 I remember very clearly or the title it was not why. 05:03 Like we're always asking, you know, why Lord? 05:05 Why this is happening to me? Well, why should I do this? 05:07 He says not why, ask why not? Why not? 05:11 Why shouldn't I live for you? Why shouldn't I witness? 05:14 Why shouldn't I put my life on the line for faith? 05:16 Right. 05:17 To me that was an inspiring tilt rum 05:21 what we all struggle with putting it on the upside. 05:23 Well, I think his sermon was almost 05:25 a combination of our whole tour. 05:28 Absolutely. 05:29 That's the whole purpose of why people did 05:31 what they did, they came to the conclusion that why not. 05:34 I mean this is not the mainstream. 05:35 This is not what everyone wants to do, 05:37 but we believe it's important for us to be different. 05:39 Yeah. 05:42 You went at the very beginning 05:43 but I need to link it 05:45 with something, not the reformation. 05:46 In some way the tour was two parts, 05:48 because when we were in Rome, there was no reformation. 05:50 Right. Right. 05:51 We were talking about beginning of pre-Christian history 05:54 and then picking it up 05:55 with the Christians in the Colosseum. 05:59 We went to the Colosseum 06:00 and there is not strong evidence 06:02 that was a common practice there 06:03 as it was in other places 06:04 but some gave their lives in the Colosseum. 06:10 And I remember being taken by something 06:12 I've seen several times before 06:13 but never noticed what was carved on it. 06:15 The arch of Titus just near the Colosseum. 06:18 Okay. You been to Rome before. 06:19 I have but I don't remember the arch of Titus. 06:21 You're like me. Okay. 06:22 I knew about it and I remember 06:24 walking under it but until this tour-- 06:26 this is the value of this tour 06:27 sort of made us pose and think on this topic 06:31 where a tourist normally 06:32 in those places wouldn't see it. 06:35 And they are carved on the arch of Titus 06:36 which was celebrating 06:38 the victory of Rome over Jerusalem. 06:42 He got a carving of the soldiers 06:44 brining the golden candlesticks and the other furniture's. 06:47 Well, the other items of furniture 06:49 from the temple in Jerusalem. 06:50 You know, its kind of-- Hebrew slaves. 06:52 It's really interesting that you mentioned 06:54 that because I remember reading one of the incidents 06:56 that have to victory in Rome 06:58 that whenever the general came in 07:00 that they always had a slave that was actually inside the-- 07:04 his chariot with him 07:05 and the idea was to be a reminder 07:08 that you know, today you are victorious 07:09 but tomorrow you might be at the bottom here. 07:12 And it was means of making sure 07:14 that you understood that no matter, 07:15 how great your empire is 07:17 there's somebody waiting right behind the corner 07:20 to take you off the ledge as well. 07:21 Well, Rome discovered that 07:22 even though in many ways was still living under the echo 07:27 and the ghosts of the Roman Empire 07:28 certainly is a empire loss since it's gone. 07:32 It exists on best definition in the rump form 07:35 through the continuation of the Roman Catholic Church 07:37 because they, as they will themselves tell you 07:39 they inherited the political mantle from the Roman Empire. 07:43 Absolutely. Absolutely. 07:45 Which is a more legitimate claims 07:46 on the donation of Constantine, 07:50 you know, they were given their land per say. 07:52 They inherited the power and so more legitimate than 07:56 and even the gift of Jesus to Peter, you know. 07:59 Right. 08:00 He was definitely taping him for leadership 08:02 but did he give away all his power 08:04 or purgatives I don't think so. 08:06 I don't think so either. 08:07 But to me that was a good introduction. 08:09 We saw that Christianity was nurtured 08:11 in sacrifice and persecution 08:14 and then we jump forward where you picked it up 08:17 clearly in Italy and France and Switzerland 08:22 on the great reformers a long way down the story 08:25 where faith had been carried on but not a true faith. 08:28 Right. Right. 08:30 And of course, you know, we all have that problem, 08:32 I don't know about your life. 08:33 You know, I go through a lot of the motions of faith 08:35 and I mean well but its pretty easy 08:37 for the sort of deteriorate 08:38 but you need to go back to the Bible 08:40 and Great Controversy and sharpen yourself. 08:42 And I think most Christians if you ask them 08:44 if they have faith they would tell you absolutely 08:46 but truth be told most Christians hope 08:48 they never have to exhibit that 08:49 and they hope they never have 08:50 to really live the life of faith. 08:52 And I think in particular when I came a board 08:54 and we got to Geneva and you start to go 08:56 and see that reformation wall and-- 08:59 That's what I was wanting to bring up 09:00 in the little time left. 09:01 And so-- Didn't that impress you-- 09:04 in a better relief there larger than life? 09:08 These great figures and I guess 09:09 there was an arbitrary in the sub 09:10 which has great figures the reformation. 09:11 Absolutely. 09:12 Martin Luther and Oliver Cromwell 09:15 one of my heroes hated by many but great people. 09:18 You see Huss, you see Knox, you see-- 09:20 Calvin. 09:21 Yeah, Calvin and it was just the means of letting, you know, 09:26 the individuals have put their real lives on the line. 09:29 This was not just a matter of something 09:31 where they were playing games, 09:32 this was life and death every time. 09:34 And more than just their lives 09:35 and we can talk about this another program 09:37 but very often that was their families lives 09:39 that were threatened. 09:40 Absolutely. Absolutely. 09:41 So its one thing if you're gonna self him a like 09:44 but if that means that your wife or your children suffer 09:47 and prison or harmed that could be even much worse. 09:50 Well, I think in reality what we are looking for 09:52 is trying to always find those moments 09:54 where we can move towards doing God's will. 09:57 When you get a chance to see the reformation 09:59 and all the individuals there and their lives 10:02 that they put on the line, 10:03 their families lives were put on the line 10:05 you realize that they had to have a special faith in God. 10:08 The ability to want to put everything 10:10 on the line is just something 10:12 that most of us never really have to understand. 10:14 And I could still remember thinking about 10:16 can you imagine not being able to have your Bible 10:18 or having to hide of things of that nature. 10:21 But if you put everything in God's hands 10:22 and trust Him with all 10:24 and be willing to have the faith to follow Him 10:26 it just shows that God will always protect us all the way. 10:30 The religious liberty bus tour have focused my mind 10:34 in ways that I never imagined. 10:36 As the wheels on the bus went round and round 10:39 as the children's story goes 10:42 we moved from one location to another where we saw 10:45 undeniable physical evidence of people's faithfulness. 10:50 It was amazing to account 10:52 the words of the Great Controversy 10:54 written a hundred plus years ago 10:57 writing about events hundreds of years ago 10:59 and to be in those places and see written on the walls, 11:03 scroll on the stones of the floor, 11:06 written in the geography 11:09 as we accounted those locations. 11:11 The stories of people of faith 11:14 at any cost to worship God 11:17 to share and read His holy word 11:20 to give if necessary their lives 11:23 to tackle the proclamation of the truth. 11:25 The wheels on the bus went round and round 11:28 but the wheels in my mind went round and round 11:30 and memory was over whelming. 11:33 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17