Welcome to Liberty Insider.
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This is a program for
those that regularly follow it
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that brings you
updates, information, analysis
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and general understanding
of religious liberty events
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on the
program is Dr. John Graz,
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Secretary General
of the International
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Religious Liberty Association.
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Pleasure to be with you.
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And a good associate.
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We had many good
sessions together
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on this program
and another places.
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I know you
traveled the world a lot
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and there's
some very interesting
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developing places
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that may be in the
west or in the United States
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we don't really acknowledge.
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I remember years ago
going to Rio de Janeiro
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and being just
bowled over by that
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incredible cosmopolitan city.
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Of course, most
young people now know it
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because of a cartoon
program Rio with the birds.
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But I know that the economic
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powerhouse city of
that country is Sao Paulo
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Yeah. Sure.
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Many of the cars
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that the American's buy
are assembled there now.
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You had an event
there not to long ago
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where you
celebrated religious liberty
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and tens of thousands of
people gathered together.
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Tell us a little bit about them?
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Yeah, you know, in 2006
we start a new year program
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which was called a
Festival of Religious Freedom
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and we start in Sao Paulo
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and for the first
time in our history
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and I think for the
first time in the history
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of the churches and so on,
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we have brought more than
12,000 people in the stadium,
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20,000 were outside.
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So you basically
filled the stadium?
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We filled the stadium,
it was not a big stadium
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but it was an indoor stadium.
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12,000 I thought that
only 4 or 3,000 will come.
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That was the revelation for me
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and that was an answer
to my prayer, you know.
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I read the text on the Bible
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where the promise of
the Bible saying that
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I will make you the--
the Lord will make you
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the head, not the tail.
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I said how it can be
apply in religious freedom
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and I thought that he found
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that we can put
10,000 people together
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that would be fabulous
and I talked with my friend
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who was in charge
of religious freedom
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in South America at this time.
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V.M Costa and I said you know
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if one day we were in
2006, and one day maybe 2009,
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let's say 2009, we
could put 10,000 people
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to celebrate religious
freedom that would be fabulous,
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to say publicly thank you God,
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thank you my country
for religious freedom.
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And he said, "Yes,
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but why do you
want to wait 2009."
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And I said 'cause
that's not possible,
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people are not
interested at all.
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You can have 1 million people
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when you have a
concert and so on
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but religious
freedom no one will come.
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He said, "Huh, we
can do that in 6 months."
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And less than 6 months
later we had this festival
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and we start with the
idea that we could have
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the maximum of
people you know everywhere
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we have religious
freedom to say it publicly
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we love religious
freedom, we want to keep it.
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So it's to
celebrate communal celebration
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of this
incredible aspect of allies
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that we can practice our faith,
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we can be protected in
that by the government.
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Let's thank you. Thank you God.
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Thank you to the country. Yeah.
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That is the concept very easy,
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you know, and from this point
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we decided to have
festival in many countries-
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I remember in
Dominican Republic,
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we went to one
with the entire stadium.
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12,000 people or 13,000.
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Then we went to, we
decided to have a world festival
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of religious
freedom every 5 years
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and the first
one was in Lima, Peru
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where we had 45,000
people in the stadium
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and also 40,000 people in Angola
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and 15,000 people in Bogota.
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So this is not
just a local phenomena,
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it's everywhere.
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No, on the five continents,
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There's a readiness for people
to celebrate such a freedom.
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You know, the
idea is very simple
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and this is
what I try to promote
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that everywhere
around the world.
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We will have a big one
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in Papua New Guinea in
December and probably around
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30,000 something like that.
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The idea is very simple.
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I visited just a few
weeks ago to Gettysburg,
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and several other
places where you see
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the price people
pay for our freedom.
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You know thousand,
sometime million people
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in the story gave their life
for the freedom we have today.
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And I think that
at least once a while
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we should say
thank you to the country
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which protects our
freedom and how can we do that?
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Or can you do that
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in having a
meeting with 25 people.
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I know you've had it.
I'll play the devil's advocate.
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You had some of
them in countries
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that have a less
than stellar record
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of defending religious liberty,
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but it seems to me
your by acknowledging
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what they have
granted, you are holding them
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to a higher
standard by this public.
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Exactly and of
course you cannot do that
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in North Korea, you can imagine.
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You cannot do
that even in China,
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even in Vietnam, in
some other countries.
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You do that in country
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where you have
religious freedom.
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You may have
problem with human right,
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that's okay, that's clear.
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It doesn't mean that
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because you have
religious freedom,
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all human rights are protected.
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There are some other country,
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they are very good
in religious freedom,
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very poor in human right.
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There's a certain connection
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between the two
but you're right.
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Yeah, but still you
know on the five continents
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still you do that and
we have the second world
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festival of
religious freedom in Sao Paulo
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and about 25-30,000 people
came which is interesting is,
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at the beginning I
thought that the festival
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will be just an event,
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but everywhere we
have our festival,
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we have a congress
before or symposium
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and now we had liberty concert.
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Now, you also had the
number of public officials.
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Didn't the
governor of province come?
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Of course, we
invite public official.
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That is the reason
we have these event.
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Also, one of the reason
is we can have relations,
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built relations
with the officials.
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You know when you
invite them to speak
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even 5 minutes
before 30,000 people.
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People enjoy to hear them.
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They pay attention.
Politicians love that stuff.
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Exactly and you know
after the first festival
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in Lima, Peru, they
passed a legislation
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which recognized all the church
not only the Catholic Church.
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It means now they have
all the church recognize.
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It has changed a lot for
churches like our church.
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And in Brazil what
did they do in Sao Paulo?
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They decide that the
day of the festival May 25
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will become the day
of religious freedom
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for the city of Sao Paulo.
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And now, everywhere
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we have a festival
of religious freedom,
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I ask all people to propose
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to the city or to their country.
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To declare that day, yeah.
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That was the case in Haiti.
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Now they are talking about
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having a day of
religious freedom.
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We will do the same
in Papua New Guinea.
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I proposed the same in Manila,
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where we had also
thousand and thousand people,
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and you know that's
very simple concept.
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People die for the
freedom we have today.
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Our country still protect
our freedom, that's time.
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Time has come to
say just thank you,
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thank you for that.
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And this is why I
dream to have a big festival
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in Washington with
thousand and thousand people.
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But it will
happen one day I think.
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I hope, I hope.
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But you have to find people
who are ready to organize that.
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But if there is a
place in the world
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where people should mobilize,
be mobilized time to time
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to say thank you
for religious freedom.
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And also, you know, I used to
ask people to repeat after me.
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Thank you God for
religious freedom.
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Thank you to my
country for religious freedom.
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We love it. We want to keep it.
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It means it's not
just a celebration,
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it's also a call
to we want to keep it.
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And we invite
people from other religion
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because it has no sense
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to celebrate
religious freedom alone.
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We want to show
that we are grateful
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for religious freedom for
us but also for the others.
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And I think one big
advantage I can see at this,
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and I know you
are very aware of it,
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but you don't often say it.
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This is a way to
involve young people.
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A lot of
religious liberty events,
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it's more like--
well, not academic
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but more
technical, legal and so on.
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And I don't think that
draws the young people as much
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but hear lot of music.
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Yeah, lot of
music. Yeah, excitement.
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And young people
play, you know, they play--
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Yes, the young people
are involved directly,
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they attend, they've
seen that this is a plus,
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religious liberty is something--
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Pathfinders you know,
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thousand pathfinders helping us.
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The pathfinder.
Yeah, the youth finder.
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Fabulous, you know, last
time in the Merida, Mexico,
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if you have seen
you know these beautiful
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pathfinder walking with
the flag of their countries
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and the official
were very impressed,
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that's beautiful.
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No, I think the dynamic is good,
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and I know from not
just religious liberty,
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my father used to be
involved in temperance,
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holding rallies the same way.
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Once you get the
public officials involved,
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you made a contact with
them, then there's a follow up.
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They're now a patron basically
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ongoing
religious liberty programs.
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They are very positive
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for the churches
that are involved
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and the dynamic
that you represent.
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So if that was all that it was.
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Yes, this may be spectacular,
but I think it's a catalyst
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for ongoing
activities, isn't there?
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And you know
that's-- we are helping,
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we are receiving
support from other groups,
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and the Mormons are very
good in religious freedom,
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they have some top leaders
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and Catholics, of
course Protestant and so on,
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but we have a special,
you know, work perishing
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with the Mormon in
several part of the world.
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Because, you
know, we are minority
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they are minority, we
can understand each other.
00:10:03.00\00:10:05.76
And I was
invited to give a lecture
00:10:05.79\00:10:08.35
to the universities in Utah,
00:10:08.38\00:10:11.65
you know the
beautiful Brigham University,
00:10:11.68\00:10:15.02
Brigham University,
00:10:15.05\00:10:16.77
and that was to talk
to the top level leaders.
00:10:16.80\00:10:20.83
And I said that, you
know, I was impressed
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because you have
beautiful stadium here.
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And I said, "I
want to challenge you."
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Did you get a commitment?
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I want to challenge you,
I repeated several times.
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I want to challenge you.
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You know, fill the stadium
to celebrate religious liberty
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at least once and
I would like east,
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even, you know, when
I visited Notre Dame,
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the beautiful
Catholic University.
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They have a huge stadium.
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South Bend, Indiana.
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Yeah, yeah, huge
stadium and every Sunday
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or during the week,
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you know they fill the
stadium for football game.
00:10:51.20\00:10:55.16
I said, mine, once you should
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fill the stadium,
to say thank you God
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and thank you our
country for religious freedom.
00:10:59.70\00:11:01.73
So there's a lot of
potential to organize this.
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You better stay
around a few more decades
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and make it
happen, I can see that.
00:11:05.30\00:11:06.64
Well, you are my role I say,
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I have to say my role was really
00:11:08.32\00:11:10.17
as they said in Peru to seed
you know to spread the seed,
00:11:10.20\00:11:14.90
to promote, to encourage people
and they find the team there.
00:11:14.93\00:11:20.08
They had
fabulous team to do that.
00:11:20.11\00:11:22.42
Imagine then in Lima, Peru,
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they had, they
brought 500 buses.
00:11:24.68\00:11:28.40
When the program was
over beautiful program
00:11:28.43\00:11:31.94
in 15 minutes the
stadium was empty.
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Fabulous
organization and in Sao Paulo
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and everywhere, you
know, of course it--
00:11:39.83\00:11:42.49
there was a lot work behind
but when people capture their--
00:11:42.52\00:11:46.93
capture the concept, you know,
00:11:46.96\00:11:49.57
and I think and
sometime they say
00:11:49.60\00:11:52.94
we would like to do that,
00:11:52.97\00:11:54.06
but that would be
difficult we are not involved.
00:11:54.09\00:11:55.30
People want to do it.
00:11:55.33\00:11:56.36
You know, there
might be some people
00:11:56.39\00:11:57.42
watching that have a burden.
00:11:57.45\00:11:59.36
How can they
contact you? You know--
00:11:59.39\00:12:04.08
And I said to them
you are not obliged
00:12:04.11\00:12:07.26
to start with the meeting
00:12:07.29\00:12:08.50
with 10,000
people or 50,000 people,
00:12:08.53\00:12:11.74
but feel obliged to
start with something.
00:12:11.77\00:12:14.22
Even if you'll start with 500,
00:12:14.25\00:12:16.06
even if you'll start in a church
00:12:16.09\00:12:18.10
you know by a
concert, liberty concert.
00:12:18.13\00:12:20.21
That's very easy.
00:12:20.24\00:12:21.44
In many, many
churches you have a choir.
00:12:21.47\00:12:24.46
Why you should
not have once a year
00:12:24.49\00:12:27.26
a religious liberty concert,
00:12:27.29\00:12:29.78
then you can see
that something can happen
00:12:29.81\00:12:32.66
and you can jump
up to the next step.
00:12:32.69\00:12:36.38
And one day, you know one day
00:12:36.41\00:12:37.98
you will have a big, big, big--
00:12:38.01\00:12:39.74
Yeah. Most of these festivals
are very good combination
00:12:39.77\00:12:42.27
of musical events and very small
00:12:42.30\00:12:44.90
but significant
little many speeches, right?
00:12:44.93\00:12:46.92
May be five to ten minutes.
00:12:46.95\00:12:48.25
It depends where are you.
00:12:48.28\00:12:49.31
You know the first festival
00:12:49.34\00:12:50.37
we did not have
a lot of speeches
00:12:50.40\00:12:52.25
but a lot of music.
00:12:52.28\00:12:53.67
We had fabulous
orchestra and children choir
00:12:53.70\00:12:58.49
in some other you
have most like in Indonesia
00:12:58.52\00:13:01.63
that was interesting.
00:13:01.66\00:13:02.96
When I saw that the
older religious leader
00:13:02.99\00:13:05.99
that they had invited I
think that they will speak
00:13:06.02\00:13:09.39
all of them and I asked
00:13:09.42\00:13:11.14
and they say yes, I said
but you know people will leave,
00:13:11.17\00:13:14.30
they will never stick
that was the opposite.
00:13:14.33\00:13:17.19
You know people
enjoyed the music
00:13:17.22\00:13:19.01
but they enjoyed
more of the speeches.
00:13:19.04\00:13:23.29
And we don't want to bore people
00:13:23.32\00:13:25.33
and too long a
classroom session can turn
00:13:25.36\00:13:27.79
even the most eager
student to a sleepy head,
00:13:27.82\00:13:30.86
but that said,
you and I know that
00:13:30.89\00:13:32.95
the people lacks
specific information
00:13:32.98\00:13:34.85
on religious liberty.
00:13:34.88\00:13:36.22
So an event
that can inspire them
00:13:36.25\00:13:38.01
and yet if they can hear
that, what is religious liberty?
00:13:38.04\00:13:40.90
Where is the challenge?
00:13:40.93\00:13:42.07
What do I need to do?
00:13:42.10\00:13:44.06
I think this is very practical.
We'll take a break now.
00:13:44.09\00:13:47.39
We'll be back
after a few seconds
00:13:47.42\00:13:49.21
to continue this
discussion of the celebrations,
00:13:49.24\00:13:52.53
festivals of religious
liberty that are breaking out
00:13:52.56\00:13:55.78
with some organization
all around the world.
00:13:55.81\00:13:57.53
Stay with us.
00:13:57.56\00:13:58.59