Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Robert Seiple
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000248B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break with ambassador-at-large 00:12 first ever for the United States ambassador Seiple, 00:14 we were talking initially about Laos 00:17 and your experience there in advocating religious liberty 00:21 with some considerable success as you said. 00:25 There was success there. 00:28 I was invited to address a couple of conferences there 00:31 that they put on in a key note 00:34 and what you want me to talk about. 00:36 Why is this important to the United States? 00:38 We want you to also talk at the end of the conference. 00:41 What do you want me to talk about? 00:42 Why is this important to the world? 00:44 Well, these are great-- 00:46 I mean, I wish we have these opportunities 00:48 sometimes in the United States to explain. 00:51 They brought in people from every province. 00:54 Now they gave me a podium and that was a big thing 00:57 but so what they got them there. 00:59 Did they've come to the meeting or swim at the beach? 01:01 No, no all they came, 01:03 they came not like America and they came to the meeting. 01:05 No, you know, what I'm talking about 01:06 a lot of seminars 01:08 the opening session people are there and then they're gone. 01:11 Sure. And they listened to it. 01:14 And they developed-- 01:15 first of all they translated 01:17 the universal declaration of human rights 01:21 into the Lao language. 01:23 And then they put out-- 01:25 they eventually got their own religious freedom 01:28 legislation decree number 92. 01:30 They don't have many laws 01:31 they have about 60 laws in the bunch. 01:33 We can learn something from them there to. 01:35 But they came out with that 01:37 and they everybody that went home 01:39 and now we are talking about governors 01:41 and district officials and police chiefs 01:43 and so on all heard the same message. 01:46 Now, I could advertise 01:48 and you got to repeat it over and over and over again. 01:51 We have been doing seminars, 01:53 religious freedom seminars all over Laos 01:57 for the last five to seven years. 02:00 We have brought the highest level of Lao 02:03 in the Lao National Front people 02:05 into the United States. 02:07 We spent 15 days with them. 02:09 We showed them the polarity of our churches. 02:13 We sure we took them to Lao Buddhists temples. 02:17 We showed them a minority people like the Amish 02:21 and how they treat, 02:23 how they get treated in this government. 02:27 I'm sole on bringing people into this country 02:30 and just sitting back in watching them look at 02:32 what we have in by way of freedom. 02:35 Now may be we assume too much in this country 02:37 but we certainly have it today and we should not assume it 02:42 because we got to maintain it for tomorrow 02:44 but the Laos would go back. 02:45 In fact, on this particular occasion 02:47 we have 37 people Lao jails because of their faith. 02:52 That's a tough number. 02:54 Now one point there are about 60 as our. 02:56 Well, at this point in time 02:57 this was like in 2004 they had 37. 03:01 They went back on their own dime 03:03 because no body paid them to do this. 03:04 They run all around the country 03:06 and they opened the jails of 34 people. 03:09 Now, that's says something. Yeah. 03:11 That's very positive progress. 03:13 And new acumen of a decree on the religious freedom 03:17 shows progress the kind of reception 03:20 we get when we go back shows progress. 03:23 These things have to be maintained. 03:24 Tell me something, you know, it's very positive 03:27 education process with the government 03:29 and its undeniable evidence 03:31 that they were starting to understand it 03:33 and changing their behavior. 03:35 I have always wondered though 03:38 thinking as a Christian in any situation 03:40 if you were a citizen 03:42 living there a Christian citizen. 03:45 Jesus told us to go out and convert people 03:48 and spread this gospel with the kingdom. 03:50 Would you go out giving out Christian literature 03:53 knowing if it was in village that something would happen? 03:59 What should we do, what shall we encourage 04:01 in a country like that the actual on the ground 04:04 in the individual to the issue? 04:05 You just gave a methodology 04:08 and I would say that methodology can destroy message. 04:13 So I will not go out and hand down 04:15 religious liberty many places. 04:19 St. Francis said 04:20 "preach the gospel every chance you get, 04:22 use words if necessary." Well, that's true. 04:25 The second part of the Book of Ephesians 04:27 is all about taking the first part of our beliefs 04:30 and turning them into behaviors. 04:32 What do we do that is so radical? 04:35 What do we do in our every day lives 04:37 that is so good and so radical to other people 04:40 that it provokes the questions 04:42 for which Jesus Christ is the answer? 04:45 That's my formulae for the Vientiane. 04:47 That's a very good insight on 04:52 and I agree that it wouldn't be good 04:54 probably to precipitate problem 04:56 by doing a particular activity that would get a blow back. 05:01 I saw some evidence with some of the believers 05:04 that we contact that they were remaining 05:07 culturally Buddhist not communists. 05:11 Communism sort of superimposed over 05:14 really a Buddhist society. 05:16 But they were Buddhist they were not standing out 05:19 or even identifying themselves as Christians 05:21 or Seventh-day Adventist 05:22 except within the church building 05:24 and I'm uncomfortable with that but 05:27 and so fitting that into what you're saying 05:29 they would should take social opportunities to share 05:32 and present and to live openly more openly as their faith 05:36 but probably not, not antagonize the authorities 05:41 by something that specifically would cause a problem. 05:44 Yeah, it's interesting that countries evangelize 05:47 as a function how they were evangelized. 05:49 Well, it's a good point, ever thought of it before. 05:52 We evangelized South Korea in the 50s 05:56 and the Philippines about same time. 05:59 And it was kind of hard nose, you know if you died in 90 06:02 and didn't have Jesus in your heart 06:03 you know where you're going. 06:05 It was very, very hard in your face 06:07 and difficult in some ways abusive 06:10 and as a methodology it just wasn't good public relations. 06:15 And sometimes you could question the theology 06:17 but you could always question the public relations. 06:20 Well, the places that I have in religious freedom issues today 06:23 in Asia sometimes are because 06:25 those evangelists from South Korea, 06:28 those evangelists from the Philippines 06:30 doing at the way they did that we did it to them 06:33 are trying to impose the same methodology 06:36 and if that takes, if that takes in your lawns. 06:39 You know when Christ sent out the evangelists 06:41 He used to tell them two things. And we get it half right. 06:44 "He said be as gentle as a dove." 06:45 We got that part pretty right. 06:48 "Be assured as a snake, be assured as a snake. 06:51 Be pragmatic becoming sensical, understand how the word works, 06:56 be a pragmatist on the ground." 06:58 We don't do that very well. 06:59 You know, there is something else 07:01 and I'll apply especially here. 07:02 He said, if you go into a city 07:04 and they don't receive you shake the dust of the city 07:06 of your feet and go on your way. 07:09 Are there some places that you think 07:11 we are talking about Christian witness now 07:14 that it's not receptive if also we move on? 07:18 Yeah, you need to be careful how you, how you take. 07:22 It's a provocative thought. Or a metaphor. 07:25 And I mean, I have been 07:28 I have left churches in this country 07:32 quoting that first 07:34 shake the dust off my sandals I'm out of here. 07:38 But I think you have to be a pretty careful. 07:42 What God is requiring is something much more basic 07:46 and something that's much more difficult that a methodology 07:49 or even though where we are gonna proclaim the message 07:51 He requires obedience, Christ's faithfulness. 07:54 But you're right, you're point is very correct. 07:56 We are not called to confrontation per se, 07:59 confrontation often comes as a byproduct 08:02 but we are not called to create it. 08:04 Now and the confrontation has been one. 08:05 It was one at Calvary. Yeah. 08:07 It was one at the resurrection 08:08 when sin and death were defeated 08:13 and what we have now is, 08:14 is the most beautiful message in the world 08:18 that we have to find a way 08:19 that we give it out and way that doesn't destroy 08:22 the most beautiful message of the world. 08:24 Good, point. Good, point. 08:27 Back to Laos I know there is lot to talk about the, 08:29 I mean this is central to one. 08:32 A Christian would want to do there are of course 08:34 on religious liberty and I don't know about you 08:36 but there's almost two-- well, there are two hats. 08:38 It's the personal one as a Christian, 08:41 but when you're dealing with religious liberty 08:42 it's to create this, this mythical 08:48 but this so called level plain field 08:50 for all beliefs for conscience to exercise the soul. 08:53 But it may sometimes mean that you're protecting 08:56 people to believe something 08:57 antithetically your own faith, right. 09:01 I don't look at it that way. 09:03 Again I try to find what is the point of communality, 09:06 what is the most concerned to the Laotian government. 09:11 And the thing that's mostly you have concerned 09:13 on them the security. 09:14 Now we mentioned what happened in East Germany. 09:17 Number of years of later it happened in Indonesia 09:20 where there is very pluralistic country 09:25 that protected its religious faiths in minorities 09:28 started to break apart with tensions of conflict. 09:32 And every Muslim knew, every the Christian lived 09:34 and vice verse and they started beheading one another. 09:36 And so they look at that 09:38 and they say we need to be careful, 09:40 we don't want them. 09:42 So I always talk in terms of religious freedom 09:46 in the context of security. 09:48 Religious freedom tells your population 09:51 that you have their best interest at heart. 09:54 And when you have their best interest at heart 09:56 they will be more loyal to the government 09:58 and when they're more loyal to the government 10:00 the government will feel more secure 10:02 and when it's more secure. Then I put, dynamic that is. 10:05 Yeah, so there is an issue that ties security 10:10 and religious freedom-- And the way you have defined it 10:11 there its good compunction just as well 10:13 if it's as far as guaranteeing religious liberty 10:16 and theory if it's a communist country 10:17 or a dictatorship or a democracy. 10:20 If the country protects religious liberty 10:23 then they're doing a good thing for belief, right. Yeah. 10:28 We see this in our own country with the Amish, 10:31 because the Amish make a contribution. 10:32 I live very close to them. 10:33 I see them nearly every day 10:34 with the little buggies and so on. 10:37 And they have something to say. 10:38 It's an interesting kind of-- Contribute and so on 10:41 but the others see they need to be protected. 10:43 They want different laws on education 10:46 and the state and the federal 10:48 and the local authorities are there to protect them 10:52 and they are great image. 10:53 And when we brought the Lao delegation over-- 10:56 So you see that in Laos communism is not a good thing 11:00 from our perspective but you see them 11:03 moving in a positive direction to protect freedom of expression 11:06 and religious freedom. 11:07 Over all that's, over that's a case. 11:10 So where do you think Laos goes from here though? 11:15 Well, again I think with Laos you have to understand 11:18 that one step forward, one step back, 11:20 two steps forward, one step back. 11:22 You got to stay there. 11:23 You have to be faithful and obedient 11:26 in the long direction persevering 11:29 and they will accept that and embrace it. 11:34 Ambassador Seiple gave a very practical 11:38 and positive assessments of the situation for Christians 11:41 and others of minority faiths in Laos. 11:45 It's a country largely forgotten in the west 11:48 particularly in the United States 11:49 which ones waged war on this small country. 11:53 There is a war going on in that country, 11:56 there is a war the same as many countries. 11:59 A war between faith 12:01 and a war between practicalities in daily life 12:04 and based on my experience in Laos 12:07 I know that there are many faithful people there 12:09 struggling in dealing with communism, 12:13 in dealing with cultural Buddhism 12:15 and other inhibitions to practice their faith. 12:18 It's necessary no matter what the situation, 12:21 no matter what that you could say 12:22 with Laos the burden of history, 12:25 you know, a history of bombing and hubris from great states. 12:31 It's necessary for people 12:33 to reach towards spiritual fulfillment, 12:35 spiritual self determination. 12:38 When that's possible, 12:39 when that's done even in a backward 12:43 and a repressed country like Laos 12:46 it's possible to find spiritual renewal. 12:50 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17