Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with ambassador-at-large
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first ever for the
United States ambassador Seiple,
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we were talking
initially about Laos
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and your experience there
in advocating religious liberty
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with some considerable
success as you said.
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There was success there.
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I was invited to address a
couple of conferences there
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that they put on in a key note
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and what you
want me to talk about.
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Why is this
important to the United States?
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We want you to also talk
at the end of the conference.
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What do you want
me to talk about?
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Why is this
important to the world?
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Well, these are great--
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I mean, I wish we
have these opportunities
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sometimes in the
United States to explain.
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They brought in
people from every province.
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Now they gave me a
podium and that was a big thing
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but so what they got them there.
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Did they've come to the
meeting or swim at the beach?
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No, no all they came,
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they came not like America
and they came to the meeting.
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No, you know,
what I'm talking about
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a lot of seminars
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the opening session people
are there and then they're gone.
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Sure. And they listened to it.
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And they developed--
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first of all they translated
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the universal
declaration of human rights
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into the Lao language.
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And then they put out--
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they eventually got
their own religious freedom
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legislation decree number 92.
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They don't have many laws
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they have about
60 laws in the bunch.
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We can learn
something from them there to.
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But they came out with that
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and they
everybody that went home
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and now we are
talking about governors
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and district
officials and police chiefs
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and so on all
heard the same message.
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Now, I could advertise
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and you got to repeat it
over and over and over again.
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We have been doing seminars,
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religious freedom
seminars all over Laos
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for the last
five to seven years.
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We have brought the
highest level of Lao
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in the Lao National Front people
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into the United States.
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We spent 15 days with them.
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We showed them the
polarity of our churches.
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We sure we took them
to Lao Buddhists temples.
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We showed them a
minority people like the Amish
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and how they treat,
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how they get
treated in this government.
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I'm sole on bringing
people into this country
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and just sitting back
in watching them look at
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what we have in
by way of freedom.
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Now may be we assume
too much in this country
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but we certainly have it today
and we should not assume it
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because we got to
maintain it for tomorrow
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but the Laos would go back.
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In fact, on this
particular occasion
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we have 37 people Lao
jails because of their faith.
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That's a tough number.
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Now one point there
are about 60 as our.
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Well, at this point in time
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this was like in
2004 they had 37.
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They went back on their own dime
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because no body
paid them to do this.
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They run all around the country
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and they opened
the jails of 34 people.
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Now, that's
says something. Yeah.
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That's very positive progress.
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And new acumen of a
decree on the religious freedom
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shows progress
the kind of reception
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we get when we go
back shows progress.
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These things
have to be maintained.
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Tell me something, you
know, it's very positive
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education process
with the government
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and its undeniable evidence
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that they were
starting to understand it
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and changing their behavior.
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I have always wondered though
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thinking as a
Christian in any situation
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if you were a citizen
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living there a
Christian citizen.
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Jesus told us to go
out and convert people
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and spread this
gospel with the kingdom.
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Would you go out giving
out Christian literature
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knowing if it was in village
that something would happen?
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What should we do,
what shall we encourage
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in a country like that
the actual on the ground
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in the individual to the issue?
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You just gave a methodology
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and I would say that
methodology can destroy message.
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So I will not go
out and hand down
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religious liberty many places.
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St. Francis said
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"preach the gospel
every chance you get,
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use words if
necessary." Well, that's true.
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The second part of
the Book of Ephesians
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is all about taking the
first part of our beliefs
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and turning them into behaviors.
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What do we do
that is so radical?
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What do we do in
our every day lives
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that is so good and so
radical to other people
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that it provokes the questions
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for which Jesus
Christ is the answer?
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That's my
formulae for the Vientiane.
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That's a very good insight on
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and I agree that
it wouldn't be good
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probably to precipitate problem
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by doing a particular activity
that would get a blow back.
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I saw some evidence
with some of the believers
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that we contact
that they were remaining
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culturally
Buddhist not communists.
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Communism sort
of superimposed over
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really a Buddhist society.
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But they were Buddhist
they were not standing out
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or even identifying
themselves as Christians
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or Seventh-day Adventist
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except within
the church building
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and I'm
uncomfortable with that but
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and so fitting that
into what you're saying
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they would should take
social opportunities to share
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and present and to live openly
more openly as their faith
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but probably not, not
antagonize the authorities
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by something that specifically
would cause a problem.
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Yeah, it's interesting
that countries evangelize
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as a function how
they were evangelized.
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Well, it's a good point,
ever thought of it before.
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We evangelized
South Korea in the 50s
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and the
Philippines about same time.
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And it was kind of hard
nose, you know if you died in 90
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and didn't have
Jesus in your heart
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you know where you're going.
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It was very,
very hard in your face
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and difficult in
some ways abusive
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and as a methodology it just
wasn't good public relations.
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And sometimes you
could question the theology
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but you could always
question the public relations.
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Well, the places that I have in
religious freedom issues today
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in Asia sometimes are because
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those
evangelists from South Korea,
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those evangelists
from the Philippines
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doing at the way they
did that we did it to them
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are trying to
impose the same methodology
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and if that takes, if
that takes in your lawns.
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You know when Christ
sent out the evangelists
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He used to tell them two things.
And we get it half right.
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"He said be as
gentle as a dove."
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We got that part pretty right.
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"Be assured as a
snake, be assured as a snake.
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Be pragmatic becoming sensical,
understand how the word works,
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be a pragmatist on the ground."
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We don't do that very well.
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You know, there
is something else
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and I'll apply especially here.
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He said, if you go into a city
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and they don't receive
you shake the dust of the city
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of your feet and go on your way.
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Are there some
places that you think
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we are talking about
Christian witness now
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that it's not
receptive if also we move on?
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Yeah, you need to be
careful how you, how you take.
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It's a provocative
thought. Or a metaphor.
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And I mean, I have been
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I have left
churches in this country
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quoting that first
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shake the dust off my
sandals I'm out of here.
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But I think you have
to be a pretty careful.
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What God is requiring is
something much more basic
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and something that's much more
difficult that a methodology
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or even though where we
are gonna proclaim the message
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He requires obedience,
Christ's faithfulness.
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But you're right,
you're point is very correct.
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We are not called to
confrontation per se,
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confrontation often
comes as a byproduct
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but we are not
called to create it.
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Now and the
confrontation has been one.
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It was one at Calvary. Yeah.
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It was one at the resurrection
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when sin and death were defeated
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and what we have now is,
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is the most
beautiful message in the world
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that we have to find a way
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that we give it out and
way that doesn't destroy
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the most beautiful
message of the world.
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Good, point. Good, point.
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Back to Laos I know
there is lot to talk about the,
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I mean this is central to one.
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A Christian would want
to do there are of course
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on religious liberty
and I don't know about you
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but there's almost two--
well, there are two hats.
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It's the personal
one as a Christian,
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but when you're
dealing with religious liberty
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it's to create
this, this mythical
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but this so
called level plain field
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for all beliefs for
conscience to exercise the soul.
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But it may sometimes
mean that you're protecting
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people to believe something
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antithetically
your own faith, right.
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I don't look at it that way.
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Again I try to find what
is the point of communality,
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what is the most concerned
to the Laotian government.
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And the thing that's
mostly you have concerned
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on them the security.
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Now we mentioned what
happened in East Germany.
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Number of years of
later it happened in Indonesia
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where there is
very pluralistic country
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that protected its
religious faiths in minorities
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started to break apart
with tensions of conflict.
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And every Muslim knew,
every the Christian lived
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and vice verse and they
started beheading one another.
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And so they look at that
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and they say we
need to be careful,
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we don't want them.
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So I always talk in
terms of religious freedom
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in the context of security.
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Religious freedom
tells your population
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that you have their
best interest at heart.
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And when you have
their best interest at heart
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they will be more
loyal to the government
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and when they're more
loyal to the government
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the government
will feel more secure
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and when it's more secure.
Then I put, dynamic that is.
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Yeah, so there is an
issue that ties security
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and religious freedom--
And the way you have defined it
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there its good
compunction just as well
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if it's as far as
guaranteeing religious liberty
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and theory if it's
a communist country
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or a
dictatorship or a democracy.
00:10:17.66\00:10:20.87
If the country
protects religious liberty
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then they're doing a good
thing for belief, right. Yeah.
00:10:23.82\00:10:28.93
We see this in our own
country with the Amish,
00:10:28.96\00:10:31.36
because the Amish
make a contribution.
00:10:31.39\00:10:32.62
I live very close to them.
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I see them nearly every day
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with the little
buggies and so on.
00:10:34.80\00:10:37.03
And they have something to say.
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It's an interesting kind
of-- Contribute and so on
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but the others see
they need to be protected.
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They want
different laws on education
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and the state and the federal
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and the local authorities
are there to protect them
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and they are great image.
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And when we brought
the Lao delegation over--
00:10:53.99\00:10:56.93
So you see that in Laos
communism is not a good thing
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from our
perspective but you see them
00:11:00.89\00:11:02.98
moving in a positive direction
to protect freedom of expression
00:11:03.01\00:11:06.13
and religious freedom.
00:11:06.16\00:11:07.48
Over all that's,
over that's a case.
00:11:07.51\00:11:10.02
So where do you think
Laos goes from here though?
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Well, again I think with
Laos you have to understand
00:11:15.36\00:11:17.98
that one step
forward, one step back,
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two steps
forward, one step back.
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You got to stay there.
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You have to be
faithful and obedient
00:11:23.86\00:11:26.69
in the long
direction persevering
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and they will
accept that and embrace it.
00:11:29.35\00:11:34.76
Ambassador Seiple
gave a very practical
00:11:34.79\00:11:38.22
and positive assessments of
the situation for Christians
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and others of
minority faiths in Laos.
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It's a country
largely forgotten in the west
00:11:45.52\00:11:48.56
particularly in
the United States
00:11:48.59\00:11:49.94
which ones waged war
on this small country.
00:11:49.97\00:11:53.75
There is a war
going on in that country,
00:11:53.78\00:11:56.41
there is a war the
same as many countries.
00:11:56.44\00:11:59.42
A war between faith
00:11:59.45\00:12:01.20
and a war between
practicalities in daily life
00:12:01.23\00:12:04.80
and based on my
experience in Laos
00:12:04.83\00:12:07.42
I know that there are
many faithful people there
00:12:07.45\00:12:09.88
struggling in
dealing with communism,
00:12:09.91\00:12:13.12
in dealing with
cultural Buddhism
00:12:13.15\00:12:15.35
and other inhibitions
to practice their faith.
00:12:15.38\00:12:18.23
It's necessary no
matter what the situation,
00:12:18.26\00:12:21.70
no matter what
that you could say
00:12:21.73\00:12:22.86
with Laos the burden of history,
00:12:22.89\00:12:25.29
you know, a history of bombing
and hubris from great states.
00:12:25.32\00:12:31.21
It's necessary for people
00:12:31.24\00:12:33.03
to reach towards
spiritual fulfillment,
00:12:33.06\00:12:35.49
spiritual self determination.
00:12:35.52\00:12:38.16
When that's possible,
00:12:38.19\00:12:39.82
when that's done
even in a backward
00:12:39.85\00:12:43.69
and a repressed
country like Laos
00:12:43.72\00:12:46.33
it's possible to
find spiritual renewal.
00:12:46.36\00:12:50.69
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:50.72\00:12:53.99