Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reed
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000240B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 We're with guest Melissa Reid. 00:10 We are giving our overview and analysis 00:14 of the current religious liberty situation in the US 00:17 and this might better be like a two or three 00:20 our program but, you know, it's quite sure. 00:22 But I think we can hit some interesting points 00:24 that we already have. 00:25 And I didn't expect it but you threw up the 00:28 example of Justice Scalia, a very erudite justice 00:33 but, but perhaps blinded by his own biases to make statements 00:37 that are just historically not true. 00:39 And this seems to be more and more the problem 00:42 in not so much religious liberty but the proponents of it 00:46 how they define it. 00:47 And there's so many precept positions 00:49 that are getting in the way of plain facts. 00:51 Yeah. 00:52 It's interesting I mean we see a lot of-- 00:56 I think as working for a magazine where a journalist 01:00 or you know working in the journalism field 01:02 where it seems such a change in what is reported. 01:09 I think the journalist themselves and the profession 01:13 as a whole held us up to particular level 01:15 of a particular standard. 01:17 You know you have to have your sources, you know, 01:19 your facts and all these sorts of things had to line up 01:21 and you had a particular personal integrity too 01:24 and that might even just sort of the day 01:26 and age that we're living in now. 01:28 But as I have seen that 01:29 the emergence of the electronic communication and media 01:33 you no longer have that level of either personal integrity. 01:38 It seems like people are going more for the ad dollar 01:42 or even on the internet they are not accountable to anyone. 01:45 They are not accountable to an editor 01:47 if you're just writing a blog on your own or whatever 01:49 you can pretty much say anything you want. 01:51 Accountability is going 01:52 but then there is another structural thing 01:53 and then I'm glad you brought it up. 01:55 People seldom remark on it but I think everybody knows it 01:59 or could deduce it like all the traditional print media 02:03 or free full they've been bought up sold off, 02:07 collapsed, moving into online stuff. 02:10 The byproduct of that is there are not so many reporters 02:14 doing what you've said investigative journalism. 02:16 More and more what we read and you can read more of it 02:19 in different places but lot of us derivative. 02:22 It's not primary researched 02:23 they're being fed the information 02:25 by special interest groups 02:27 or even in the case of the government 02:29 by government spokesman. 02:31 They may be fulfilling their duty as they see fit 02:33 but over the long hold American journalism 02:37 might take that story but then go and check on it. 02:39 They're not checking on it anymore. 02:41 Well, I'd been interested you will see on, on you know 02:44 on mainstream news channels 02:46 you will see a now a segment from, 02:49 you know, sponsored by this hospital chain 02:51 or this, you know, health services 02:53 and I think well its not a certainly a bias for them to, 02:56 you know, do health reporting 02:57 and its just interesting to see but its common place. 03:01 So and then you have the fact, you know, 03:04 so either there is not the same level of accountability 03:07 or it doesn't even make it in the news 03:09 because some sensational, 03:12 you know, something is happened with 03:13 something in the entertainment industry 03:15 that's completely irrelevant. 03:17 Well, now you're getting on to a social. 03:18 Yes. 03:19 Cultural bias. Yeah. 03:20 And our cultural is tilted highly toward the frivolous. 03:25 Yes. 03:26 But and it's somewhat to be expected even though 03:28 I'm gonna say something that probably get let us on, 03:31 I don't really think that the US as an-- as an empire, 03:35 it's directly parallel in anyway with Rome. 03:38 We shouldn't say in anyway 03:39 but in any general sense with Rome. 03:41 But there is phenomenon I think that we have in parallel 03:44 probably for the same reason. 03:45 In its decline when Rome had sort of conquered the world 03:48 and got a good standard of living 03:50 the populist descended easily into crowd 03:55 pleasing activities the gladiators and so on. 03:59 It got quite bloody and so on. 04:00 I think we are in the same thing. 04:02 We celebrate much more the football games the, 04:06 you know, the voice and all of these 04:08 reality shows and everything. 04:10 That's become reality of most people and its not that they 04:12 people have no right to be entertained 04:14 but we've gotten to the point 04:16 we have confused that with real news. 04:17 Yes. 04:18 I see many times but that's on the headline 04:22 and you know it's in another program we are talking about 04:25 millions of Christians in Syria 04:27 being directly attacked and killed, 04:29 you know, in large numbers. 04:31 It's a little subtext after this all. 04:33 Yeah, yeah and to bring it back to United States 04:35 you know we have continued to see 04:37 the equal employment opportunity commission. 04:41 Note that year after year 04:43 religious discrimination in the workplace 04:45 continues to grow more than any other category. 04:48 Absolutely. 04:50 You know that the CTEX, you know, that monitors and yet, 04:54 you know, it's a headline that I see once year come out 04:57 when the report is listed 04:58 and that's the only time I see it seen it 05:00 and its only you know a small blurb its not 05:03 no one is crying outrage over it. 05:05 Well, what you've seen there is one example of 05:07 what I believe has happened. 05:08 The change is already in place. 05:11 Why that's suddenly revealing itself 05:13 is we're in another tightening job market 05:17 its stretched out they call it a recovery 05:21 but I call it a stretched out recession. 05:22 Yeah. 05:23 And the true recovery hasn't come. 05:25 So the attitudes that shifted a while ago 05:28 are revealing themselves more and more is basically 05:31 an intolerance for religious practice in the workplace 05:34 because it gets in the way of making the money 05:36 that really is not a willing and we know this. 05:38 You know, you know very plainly that the employers 05:41 when they're legally tested 05:43 charter once may give accommodation by and as 05:46 but when it's legally tested 05:47 they are not held to account 05:50 and they don't want to give the accommodation. 05:52 Right and I always think of the individual 05:54 who is asking for the accommodation 05:56 and they know 05:58 what and that is not an equal playing field. 06:01 They know that the employer, you know, 06:03 has ten other people lined up they can do that job 06:06 just as easily or-- 06:07 It's perhaps always been that way and, you know, 06:10 I'm not live long after note that I, 06:12 I know now you get the amount of justice you can afford. 06:16 Yeah. 06:17 And we see that in large political cases 06:20 but we don't think about it in all cases including 06:23 a legal challenge to someone who is not granted 06:26 what you are titled under the constitution 06:28 for religious accommodation. 06:29 Right, right absolutely. 06:30 So there has been a shift. 06:32 But I, you know, I wouldn't really like to say 06:35 that open persecution is the norm in the US, its not. 06:38 No. 06:39 But I think structurally attitudes have changed, 06:42 I think precedence have been set that signal 06:46 whether its big business 06:48 or whether its even government itself 06:50 this is not that automatic difference 06:52 to the rights of religious minority. 06:54 The rights of religious majority 06:56 I think are not threatened today. 06:57 Right, I agree with you on that. 06:59 And it's interesting I think you probably 07:01 heard of this term nuns non-catholic 07:04 N-U-N-S but you know N-E-S 07:07 this generation that now doesn't-- 07:10 They don't check any of the boxes. 07:11 They don't, they don't spouse to any particular faith group. 07:16 They refer to themselves as spiritual 07:18 and not religious sort of things which 07:22 but it I think as we see our American population 07:27 become less and less committed to a faith group 07:31 or you know a belief system you will see 07:35 our religious freedoms continue to erode. 07:38 If something is not sacred to you 07:39 you're not gonna fight for it. 07:41 For others much less to yourself. 07:43 I mean or excuse me if you have more to guess. 07:44 I'm just thinking to bringing that point. 07:46 I have never really made that here but you know 07:49 Seventh-day Adventist just take the example that 07:51 we you and I know best part of it. 07:53 Seventh-day Adventist to some degree, 07:55 what the US is not as testing an environment 07:58 in a classical sense say as Pakistan 08:01 but to some degree the kickback is going to be 08:05 in greater proportion as say Seventh-day Adventist 08:08 more truly exemplify what they hold. 08:11 When we are a group that while we say 08:13 we believe in the Seventh-day Sabbath 08:15 if a large proportion of the members 08:16 are pretty loosey-goosey they know how to keep it. 08:18 No you don't have persecution. Yeah. 08:20 And so I think we're confusing 08:22 some of the lack of harassment in all the rest 08:25 with a better religious liberty situation when actually 08:28 we are not requiring it as much as we were before. 08:31 Absolutely, that I can really agree with that. 08:33 And Jesus says in the Bible 08:34 "All who live a godly life will suffer persecution." 08:38 Yes. 08:39 And I think that's true whether it's in the west, United States 08:42 or Pakistan or certainly Saudi Arabia or in anyway. 08:47 It's the difference that the same dynamic is at play. 08:50 Yes. 08:51 Yeah, I know I have remembered reading in 08:53 both Spirit of Prophecy writings 08:55 and also in the Bible you'll hear, 08:57 you know, of course, 08:59 first of all you pray for those that persecute, 09:01 you know, that are persecuting you 09:03 but if you are not seeing your faith challenged 09:06 or you're not feeling some sort of adversity 09:08 because of your religious beliefs. 09:11 Not that God deliberately throws things in your path to, 09:15 you know, to make things miserable for you 09:17 but if you don't see-- if life is just, 09:20 you know, a box of chocolates or bowl of cherries 09:23 or whichever in reference you want to use. 09:25 And they're probably soft centers not hard centered faith. 09:27 Then you may want to take a look and see, you know, 09:31 what's going on, why is this because, you know, 09:34 Satan is not gonna test those that don't need to be tested. 09:37 You're right. 09:38 I think a lot of times when we make this parallel between 09:44 the Hebrew boys in Daniel 09:47 and the test that they went through 09:49 the small test of faith before they're sort of large-- 09:52 It showed where they would be when the bigger test comes. 09:54 Exactly and it's interesting because they, you know, 09:59 Satan did not put the gigantic test in front of them first 10:04 because that's the obvious test and whenever I hear that story 10:06 as a Seventh-day Adventist I always think of 10:08 you know the Sunday laws sort of practice. 10:11 But that's not the way it happened for these young man 10:14 it was the small test of faith because you just make that 10:17 small compromise one or two times and then 10:21 its that much easier or more natural 10:25 to make that big compromise at the end. 10:30 Not too long ago I watched a video 10:32 a debate between late Christopher Hitchens, 10:36 an apologist for atheism 10:38 and secularism and a Christian leader. 10:42 It's was an interesting debate 10:43 and you'd have to watch it yourself to see who "won." 10:47 But I was very taken with the poem 10:50 that the Christian apologist quoted in 10:52 Matthews Arnolds, "Dover Beach." 10:55 And he quoted the lines there where Arnold says 10:57 the sea of faith too was once at the full 11:01 but now I just hear its lonely melancholy withdrawing roar. 11:07 When I look at the United States 11:10 and you might think I'm misquoting this, 11:13 I see too a withdrawing roar of faith. 11:17 Plenty of religion, plenty of secularism 11:20 and those forces of battling each other after the death 11:23 but what we truly need is more faith. 11:26 I think faith in the goodness 11:28 and idealism of the United States itself 11:30 and will faith in the God 11:33 that we worship those of as Christians 11:35 and I would recommend to others 11:37 but as a Christian faith in God 11:39 to see us and their country through. 11:43 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17