Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:00:07.67\00:00:09.27
Before the break I was
in a fit of hot dungeon over
00:00:09.30\00:00:13.90
the so called free speech zones.
00:00:13.93\00:00:15.92
Most people don't know about
this but it exist I think--
00:00:15.95\00:00:18.80
College campuses has
been a big huge problem
00:00:18.83\00:00:21.84
where free speech
is being relegated
00:00:21.87\00:00:24.75
to very out of the way places.
00:00:24.78\00:00:28.31
Yeah and to me it's bizarre.
00:00:28.34\00:00:29.57
Now it is true and
our viewers should know
00:00:29.60\00:00:32.63
that in England and Australia
or the British Common Wealth
00:00:32.66\00:00:36.57
they got a great tradition,
00:00:36.60\00:00:37.90
you know, from
Hyde Park in England
00:00:37.93\00:00:40.17
where you could stand up
00:00:40.20\00:00:41.30
put the soapbox up
and can hold forte.
00:00:41.33\00:00:43.36
So there would be a
set-aside spot to say your piece
00:00:43.39\00:00:47.63
and you could
say seditious stuff
00:00:47.66\00:00:49.05
that's where of
course Marx and Engels
00:00:49.08\00:00:53.53
and others like them have
indulge themselves in England.
00:00:53.56\00:00:58.83
So I understand
that but it never
00:00:58.86\00:01:00.22
was only there
and not anywhere else,
00:01:00.25\00:01:03.03
We've made a such
an exclusionary zone
00:01:03.06\00:01:05.83
that it makes a mockery
of the very term free speech.
00:01:05.86\00:01:08.67
Well, free speech has really
00:01:08.70\00:01:11.66
taken a hit
legally in our society.
00:01:11.69\00:01:15.25
We just don't seem to
have the same value on
00:01:15.28\00:01:18.90
and especially free press
00:01:18.93\00:01:20.80
also with the
Bradley Manning Prosecution
00:01:20.83\00:01:25.58
the administration
has been cracking down
00:01:25.61\00:01:28.58
on leakers and threatening
to punish journalists
00:01:28.61\00:01:32.05
who publish what
are classified documents
00:01:32.08\00:01:37.58
and now they're
wanting to consider them
00:01:37.61\00:01:40.88
guilty of espionage.
00:01:40.91\00:01:42.56
You know, and I am sure many
of them, very few of our viewers
00:01:42.59\00:01:45.50
would know the
story of the Aurora.
00:01:45.53\00:01:48.20
No.
00:01:48.23\00:01:49.26
There was a newspaper
00:01:49.29\00:01:50.64
run by Benjamin
Franklin's nephew
00:01:50.67\00:01:54.45
I think it was.
00:01:54.48\00:01:55.86
That was real gadfly
against a numbers of the leaders
00:01:55.89\00:01:59.39
then particularly Jefferson
00:01:59.42\00:02:01.24
and the efforts were
made to shut them down
00:02:01.27\00:02:03.62
but they're able to
say the most outrage--
00:02:03.65\00:02:05.58
Or not certainly write
the most outrageous things.
00:02:05.61\00:02:07.94
So it's not that the conflict
00:02:07.97\00:02:09.41
between political
power and its purgatives
00:02:09.44\00:02:12.60
and free speech just recent.
00:02:12.63\00:02:14.99
It's been from the beginning
00:02:15.02\00:02:16.06
but it's only
recently that I think is
00:02:16.09\00:02:17.51
outright intimidation of the--
00:02:17.54\00:02:19.20
We had the Alien and Sedition
Acts that John Adams passed.
00:02:19.23\00:02:22.29
So, no, this
battle Anthony Lewis wrote
00:02:22.32\00:02:25.23
a marvelous book called
freedom for the speech we hate.
00:02:25.26\00:02:28.80
You know the
history of free speech
00:02:28.83\00:02:31.14
and we have always
somehow found a way
00:02:31.17\00:02:33.48
to restrict the
speech of the descendants.
00:02:33.51\00:02:37.90
And that's a good
thing to point out.
00:02:37.93\00:02:39.78
Free speech
doesn't mean anything
00:02:39.81\00:02:42.84
unless it's
just the most hateful
00:02:42.87\00:02:45.19
and objectionable
stuff that you allow.
00:02:45.22\00:02:47.86
Everyone will allow
what they agree with,
00:02:47.89\00:02:49.49
that's not free space.
00:02:49.52\00:02:51.26
That's like-mindedness.
00:02:51.29\00:02:52.76
But coming back To, you know,
00:02:52.79\00:02:54.83
my favorite way to characterize
00:02:54.86\00:02:56.35
all Americans believe in
religious freedom, right.
00:02:56.38\00:02:58.77
Well, yeah of course.
00:02:58.80\00:02:59.83
everybody aesthetically
in religious freedom
00:02:59.86\00:03:02.14
but what most people
think of as religious freedom
00:03:02.17\00:03:05.10
is freedom to
believe the way I do.
00:03:05.13\00:03:06.98
Yeah.
00:03:07.01\00:03:08.04
You have freedom
to think and speak
00:03:08.07\00:03:10.69
the thoughts that I agree with
00:03:10.72\00:03:12.53
but if you want
to speak something
00:03:12.56\00:03:14.48
that I disagree with,
00:03:14.51\00:03:15.70
we all know you're
not afraid to do that.
00:03:15.73\00:03:18.62
Well, I will tell it again
00:03:18.65\00:03:19.68
because I think it's just
illustrates your point so well.
00:03:19.71\00:03:21.55
Years ago I heard
the minister of religion
00:03:21.58\00:03:25.03
for the Maldives
interviewed by on BBC
00:03:25.06\00:03:28.31
and he was to rhapsodizing
00:03:28.34\00:03:29.89
about religious
freedom in their country
00:03:29.92\00:03:32.46
and which is a almost 100%
Islamic country, Muslim country.
00:03:32.49\00:03:36.93
And the interviewer
Said, well, that's fine
00:03:36.96\00:03:38.80
but most of your
people are of one religion.
00:03:38.83\00:03:41.60
He says, you
know, I am a Christian
00:03:41.63\00:03:42.97
would I be allowed
to practice my faith,
00:03:43.00\00:03:45.08
if I came to your country?
00:03:45.11\00:03:46.93
And instantly he
says certainly not.
00:03:46.96\00:03:48.91
He says we might as well invite
00:03:48.94\00:03:50.22
Al-Qaeda into our country.
00:03:50.25\00:03:53.82
And you know his
analogy was wrong anyhow
00:03:53.85\00:03:56.27
but it was interesting
instantly his sensibility
00:03:56.30\00:03:58.57
on what religious
freedom is was disrupted.
00:03:58.60\00:04:00.66
No way.
00:04:00.69\00:04:01.72
Of course there is
freedom for the majority.
00:04:01.96\00:04:03.67
Yes, when
everyone is comfortable
00:04:03.70\00:04:05.14
and it's worth mentioning
00:04:05.17\00:04:06.54
what we've said on this program
00:04:06.57\00:04:07.88
before and you
know the statistic
00:04:07.91\00:04:09.25
that's I see it
expressed different ways
00:04:09.28\00:04:12.53
at least 60 but usually
70% of the world's population
00:04:12.56\00:04:15.59
exist under periods of places
of severe religious oppression.
00:04:15.62\00:04:19.61
But the point is in those areas
00:04:19.64\00:04:21.47
most of those
people don't know--
00:04:21.50\00:04:23.67
Because they
are of the majority.
00:04:23.70\00:04:25.09
Absolutely. Right.
00:04:25.12\00:04:26.94
They really have no choice
00:04:26.97\00:04:28.45
but they don't feel it
00:04:28.48\00:04:29.57
because they're
going with the flow.
00:04:29.60\00:04:32.02
Bringing it back to the issue
of the national security state
00:04:32.05\00:04:34.87
and religious
freedom, most Christians
00:04:34.90\00:04:37.00
in America feel like
they're free to go to church,
00:04:37.03\00:04:40.28
to carry out their
religious activities.
00:04:40.31\00:04:43.32
The same is not
true if you're a Muslim
00:04:43.35\00:04:46.59
participating in
the life of the mosque.
00:04:46.62\00:04:50.76
FBI leaders met
with the Muslim community
00:04:50.79\00:04:54.48
in Southern
California a few years ago
00:04:54.51\00:04:57.45
to reassure them, that
they were not infiltrating
00:04:57.48\00:05:01.92
and monitoring the
activities of the mosques
00:05:01.95\00:05:04.75
and then what came
out a few years later
00:05:04.78\00:05:08.43
was that the one of the
mosques reported a new member
00:05:08.46\00:05:16.25
who was behaving
suspiciously and it turned out
00:05:16.28\00:05:20.00
that he was an FBI plant
00:05:20.03\00:05:22.72
and so they filed a
federal lawsuit against the FBI
00:05:22.75\00:05:27.46
and draw moral police.
00:05:27.49\00:05:29.31
What was the outcome
of the federal lawsuit?
00:05:29.34\00:05:32.14
The FBI defended
and asked the court
00:05:32.17\00:05:36.22
to dismiss it saying that
00:05:36.25\00:05:37.30
all of the
evidence was classified
00:05:37.33\00:05:40.27
and so it could not be
revealed in a federal court.
00:05:40.30\00:05:44.65
And the federal
judge went along with that.
00:05:44.68\00:05:47.37
So the fore scope
of FBI infiltration
00:05:47.40\00:05:51.37
and monitoring of
mosques in America.
00:05:51.40\00:05:54.64
Now, you know, is unknown
00:05:54.67\00:05:57.17
as a point of fact as
a point of speculation
00:05:57.20\00:06:00.82
we have to assume that the FBI
00:06:00.85\00:06:02.89
is closely
monitoring the activities
00:06:02.92\00:06:05.33
of the entire Islamic
community here in America.
00:06:05.36\00:06:08.37
Well, it's a
little more then that
00:06:08.40\00:06:09.68
because I can remember
00:06:09.71\00:06:10.74
the announcement
of the directive,
00:06:10.77\00:06:12.71
it was to regularly
monitor religious meetings,
00:06:12.74\00:06:17.56
as was done
during the Vietnam era.
00:06:17.59\00:06:20.29
Well, and during the 1980's
00:06:20.32\00:06:22.58
when we had the
trouble in Central America--
00:06:22.61\00:06:24.83
The Sanctuary Movement. We
had the Sanctuary Movement.
00:06:24.86\00:06:26.70
Now it's not that the government
doesn't have their right,
00:06:26.73\00:06:29.38
I mean I better
qualify I mean to be interested
00:06:29.41\00:06:32.52
and to realize that things
maybe said in some context,
00:06:32.55\00:06:35.50
but a wholesale
intrusion like that,
00:06:35.53\00:06:38.60
I think it's a very
dangerous development
00:06:38.63\00:06:40.61
especially when it's denied.
00:06:40.64\00:06:42.07
So I interviewed the lawyer
00:06:42.10\00:06:43.72
who was representing
the mosque in that case, her
00:06:43.75\00:06:47.56
one of her partners
is a colleague of mine
00:06:47.59\00:06:50.70
in the plaintiff's employment
law community in California
00:06:50.73\00:06:55.07
and what I found
out was predictably
00:06:55.10\00:06:58.23
that this episode
had a detrimental affect,
00:06:58.26\00:07:02.14
the chilling
effect we lawyers call it
00:07:02.17\00:07:04.49
on the life of
the Islamic community.
00:07:04.52\00:07:06.84
They would refuse--
they stopped having potlucks
00:07:06.87\00:07:10.50
or whatever their
equivalent is, they stopped
00:07:10.53\00:07:12.64
having social
gatherings and the community
00:07:12.67\00:07:16.75
was decimated by the fear
00:07:16.78\00:07:19.51
that someone in their midst
would be reporting to the FBI.
00:07:19.54\00:07:24.17
How would you feel?
00:07:24.20\00:07:25.83
Listener, if you go to church
00:07:25.86\00:07:28.54
and you suspect that
all the license plates
00:07:28.57\00:07:33.12
are being
recorded by the government,
00:07:33.15\00:07:35.14
that somebody sitting
there listening to the sermon
00:07:35.17\00:07:37.64
and watching
who's coming and going
00:07:37.67\00:07:40.00
and monitoring your activities.
00:07:40.03\00:07:42.47
How would that impact
the life of the congregation?
00:07:42.50\00:07:45.79
And more than chilling effect,
00:07:45.82\00:07:46.85
I believe it has the potential
00:07:46.88\00:07:48.74
as we have seen with
the American foreign policy
00:07:48.77\00:07:50.66
being influenced by some forms
00:07:50.69\00:07:53.34
of evangelical Christianity
00:07:53.37\00:07:56.53
in their in time viewpoints.
00:07:56.56\00:07:58.10
It starts to shape
religious thought itself,
00:07:58.13\00:08:02.08
there's lot of
subconsciously to make it
00:08:02.11\00:08:04.19
what some times without any
input perhaps from authorities
00:08:04.22\00:08:08.16
but what they feel is more
compliant less threatening,
00:08:08.19\00:08:11.24
more generic form of
whatever the religion is.
00:08:11.27\00:08:14.62
So what does it
serve religious freedom
00:08:14.65\00:08:16.73
and obviously doesn't
serve freedom at large.
00:08:16.76\00:08:20.89
It's part of the
paranoia that's gripped
00:08:20.92\00:08:22.64
in this case the
government I think.
00:08:22.67\00:08:24.25
Americans are
going to have to deal
00:08:24.28\00:08:27.76
with the reality of the choice.
00:08:27.79\00:08:31.14
Do we have a free society
00:08:31.17\00:08:33.58
or do we have a
national security state.
00:08:33.61\00:08:36.41
Yeah.
00:08:36.44\00:08:37.47
The choice is largely been--
00:08:37.50\00:08:38.93
This is facing out--
Well, the entire world
00:08:38.96\00:08:41.29
at some point but
particularly the western world
00:08:41.32\00:08:43.72
which feels under threat
since 9/11 from radical Islam
00:08:43.75\00:08:47.77
in particular
and Europe and the US
00:08:47.80\00:08:50.21
with the illegal
migration from the south,
00:08:50.24\00:08:53.88
it feels under
demographic threat.
00:08:53.91\00:08:56.97
Well, we can live in fear
00:08:57.00\00:08:59.65
or we can have the
courage to live as free people.
00:08:59.68\00:09:03.80
Well, I think we
have the courage.
00:09:03.83\00:09:05.64
I hope we do, but I am
not necessarily convinced.
00:09:05.67\00:09:09.25
Somehow I fear that
we have been seduced
00:09:09.28\00:09:11.82
by too many iPads,
iPods, digital entertainment
00:09:11.85\00:09:16.20
that we are largely being
entertained and dumb down,
00:09:16.23\00:09:21.22
so that we don't
think a meaningful thought
00:09:21.25\00:09:23.43
and don't have,
you know, any descent
00:09:23.46\00:09:26.39
and we're simply
good little consumers
00:09:26.42\00:09:28.81
doing our part
for the global economy
00:09:28.84\00:09:31.01
and meanwhile our
freedoms are just going away
00:09:31.04\00:09:36.21
with drones coming
to the Americans skies
00:09:36.24\00:09:39.57
and privacy a thing of a past.
00:09:39.60\00:09:41.82
It's worth remembering
that the inquisition in Spain
00:09:44.29\00:09:47.76
arose out of the need
for security following
00:09:47.79\00:09:50.75
the Christian
reconquest of Spain
00:09:50.78\00:09:53.56
after hundreds
of years of Moorish
00:09:53.59\00:09:56.63
or Islamic domination.
00:09:56.66\00:09:59.02
One would think that the enemy
00:09:59.05\00:10:01.63
at that time
would have been Islam,
00:10:01.66\00:10:03.81
but in reality
most of the efforts
00:10:03.84\00:10:05.61
of the inquisition were focused
00:10:05.64\00:10:07.45
not just on
Christians themselves
00:10:07.48\00:10:10.00
but against Jews in particular
00:10:10.03\00:10:12.94
and the most feared
element of the Jewishness
00:10:12.97\00:10:16.51
within their midst were
those who falsely converted.
00:10:16.54\00:10:21.28
The net effect
was horrible suspicion
00:10:21.31\00:10:24.20
within the community and yet as
00:10:24.23\00:10:25.52
I look back on
the historical record,
00:10:25.55\00:10:27.51
no evidence ever that
Jews turned on Christianity.
00:10:27.54\00:10:31.80
Similarly today we're in
a time of global security
00:10:31.83\00:10:36.94
in fear of Islamic terrorism
00:10:36.97\00:10:39.48
and the net effect is that we're
00:10:39.51\00:10:40.96
lashing out to
their own citizens
00:10:40.99\00:10:43.43
and creating an
order of suspicion
00:10:43.46\00:10:45.54
that is ill serving freedom.
00:10:45.57\00:10:48.31
It will ill serve freedom in
general and religious liberty
00:10:48.34\00:10:51.61
in particular
will suffer greatly.
00:10:51.64\00:10:53.95
I believe in a parallel
way to have the inquisition
00:10:53.98\00:10:58.00
a time of spiritual darkness
descended not just on Spain
00:10:58.03\00:11:02.93
but the entire Christian world.
00:11:02.96\00:11:05.82
We need to avoid a repeat
of that dynamic in our era.
00:11:05.85\00:11:10.56
For Liberty
Insider, I am Lincoln Steed.
00:11:10.59\00:11:14.13