Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Allen Reinach
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000231B
|
00:07 Welcome back. Before the break we were--
00:09 I was taking with guest Attorney Allen Reinach 00:12 about the DOMA case and the Proposition 8 00:17 determination by the Supreme Court recently. 00:20 Both of them really bearing on the same topic, 00:23 same sex marriage. 00:25 You know, what are some of the implications of-- 00:28 well, not just of their decision of the whole process 00:32 gay marriage, you know, 00:34 why are religious people so worried about it. 00:36 I mean the world is full of you know-- 00:38 civil society is full of all sorts of activities 00:41 that are biblically aberrant and that we would decry 00:44 even though we have to charitably relate to old people 00:48 and recognize their fellow creatures, right? 00:50 We can't condemn at the people per se. 00:53 As we look at the subject of the implications 00:57 I want to start with a basic premise 01:00 and that is that if we respect the rights of conscience 01:03 then we have to work for a social and a legal system 01:09 where everyone has a right of self determination 01:12 that we can live according to 01:14 our own values, our own beliefs. 01:17 The problem is where we're going 01:20 as a result of the growth of gay rights 01:24 and same sex marriage in particular. 01:26 Right, this is against religious belief and practice. 01:30 We're going to a place where traditional religions 01:34 and their values and teachings about human sexuality 01:38 become illegal and unacceptable 01:42 and our institutions are not permitted to exist 01:47 if we're going to continue with those values. 01:51 Now I give you a simple illustration 01:54 of how this plays out in a bill that as we speak 01:58 is expected to be voted by the California legislature 02:02 and may well be signed into law. 02:04 The Boy Scouts 02:06 that great un-American bastion of discrimination. 02:10 I'm being so caustic, okay. 02:14 The Boy Scouts have been targeted 02:16 by the gay community for a long time. 02:18 Well, they were one of the first organizations 02:20 to make public statements on this, 02:22 their attitude towards gays. 02:23 That was about 10 years ago. 02:25 So, there is an exemption in the law 02:31 for what's called excised taxes 02:33 on the sale of the intermittent sale, 02:38 the occasional sale of goods for fund raising. 02:43 Think the girls scout cookies or think, you know, 02:48 the PTA or the Homan school they bring-- 02:52 they go to Casco they buy a bunch of drinks 02:55 and chips and snacks and they sell it 02:57 at the High School football game 02:59 to raise some money for uniforms, okay. 03:01 Now mind you they've already paid tax 03:03 when they brought the stuff 03:05 but they are exempt as a nonprofit as a youth group, 03:09 they are exempt from paying sales taxes 03:12 on the resale of this stuff to raise money. 03:15 So the bill in California would revoke 03:20 the tax exemption of all of these youth groups, 03:23 unless they submit to the taxing authority 03:29 a non-discrimination statement and policy 03:33 that complies with state law. 03:35 And that means that they are not allowed 03:38 to discriminate on the basis of religion 03:40 or the basis of sexual orientation, 03:43 it is thought police stuff. 03:45 So unless these organizations including religious schools 03:50 that have sports teams 03:53 or churches that have youth groups 03:56 unless we submit to the thought police then arguably 04:03 they are going to start trying to collect sales taxes. 04:07 Now are they really gonna be able to collect sales taxes? 04:10 I don't think so. 04:11 And even if they do in itself 04:12 that's not going to destroy the Boy Scouts. 04:16 As a practical matter this is a shot across the bow. 04:19 It's not a real threat, it is an ideological threat 04:25 to use the taxing authority 04:28 to punish any groups that adhere 04:32 to traditional religious values of human sexuality. 04:36 And I say, religious not Christian, 04:37 because the same holds in Judaism, 04:40 the same holds in Islam. 04:42 And I don't know other religions but traditionally, 04:46 you know, human sexuality 04:48 has been regarded across religions 04:51 as restricted to a man and woman. 04:54 Yeah, well, it's sort of Darwinian, 04:57 the survival of the species. 04:59 Well, but this gets to, you know, 05:03 the thing that nobody is really talking about 05:06 is there is a very sound secular reason for society 05:12 and its laws to prefer heterosexual relationships 05:16 over same sex relationships, it is the survive-- 05:19 It's not illogical. 05:20 Unless you want to join with those 05:22 who were interested in shrinking the human species 05:27 from seven billion to four billion. 05:28 Well, that's what I said in this editorial. 05:30 Well, not in an editorial, on an online blog. 05:33 I believe the implications to this social and legal change 05:38 will be as great as the population shifts 05:43 and all the flow from that in the industrial revolution 05:46 which led to women working, children, child labor for while 05:51 and so on huge things came from that. 05:53 Now this issue going back, this issue of tax policy, 05:56 there's a case in New Jersey involving a Methodist camp 06:00 along the Jersey shore, they were punished, 06:03 because they refused to allow an outdoor pavilion 06:07 that was used for religious services. 06:09 They refused to allow same sex couple 06:12 to conduct a commitment ceremony there 06:16 and the tax exempts status of that real property 06:19 was revoked as a result and they were, 06:22 they have been prosecuted 06:24 in the New Jersey Human Rights Organization. 06:29 And this case has been ongoing, 06:31 I haven't heard any future developments 06:33 in quite some time. 06:35 There is no question that tax policy 06:40 is at the forefront of the war 06:44 against traditional marriage. 06:45 And I never really thought it through 06:47 even until we were discussing it now, 06:49 even though I knew the Boy Scouts 06:52 is really one of the opening syllabus. 06:54 Churches I think it's easier to argue for an exemption 06:57 because of the deeply held religious moral stands. 07:02 And there are separation of church and state. 07:04 But in organization, 07:05 the Boy Scouts are not religious in any shape or in manner. 07:09 I mean this Baden-Powell an ex-military man said it up, 07:11 he was just exemplifying the moral mores in the 07:16 social idolism of training young people. 07:18 Except an awful lot of Boy Scout troops 07:20 are connected to churches. 07:22 Oh, yes, I know that but I'm just saying 07:25 it's not like our Seventh-day Adventist church 07:28 we have pathfinders, which is structurally modeled after 07:32 but it is tided up to a church organization. 07:34 Boy Scouts are sort of out there by themselves 07:38 and you know, I always think contrarily 07:42 so you could easily make a model 07:45 that they are in the general marketplace 07:47 and there are generally applicable social laws 07:51 It's gonna be a hard battle for them to resist this 07:53 even though there are practical reasons 07:56 why they are taking the stance there. 07:59 You say the implications are going to be enormous 08:02 and I absolutely agree, what we are seeing 08:05 and I'm gonna do big picture. 08:06 I started with a specific tax policy. 08:09 But let me backup to do a big picture. 08:11 In California law, the status of homosexuals 08:18 has achieved the same legal status as race, okay. 08:23 And increasingly throughout the country 08:28 we are legally acquitting the rights of homosexuals 08:33 to be free of discrimination 08:35 with the right to be free of racial discrimination. 08:37 It's a good point because I think that's the poison pill 08:40 of this whole legal thing. 08:41 I mean I have a bit of, before I get hate mail. 08:44 You know, I'm a Seventh-day Adventist Christian 08:47 I believe in the Bible 08:48 and I think this is a moral failing of 08:51 our modern society, I'm not in favor of homosexuality 08:54 but we can't use our Christianity to-- 08:59 act badly toward anybody that differs from us 09:02 and we need to be careful how we relate to them. 09:04 So in that regard I have no sympathy 09:07 for some religionist like, you know, 09:09 we had an article liberty people, 09:11 military funerals, you know shouting hate stuff because of-- 09:14 we can't do that but by the same token 09:19 we need to stand on our rights to defend our faith 09:22 and to practice of when this is used against us. 09:25 We got a conflict is looming huge. 09:29 I think we need to be very clear and very public 09:33 that our protection of religious liberty 09:36 we do not believe comes at the expense 09:38 of the rights of homosexuals. 09:40 And that's what we need to make clear. 09:43 It shouldn't be look the-- 09:45 The gospel, Jesus-- Jesus didn't die 09:48 just for straight people. 09:49 Okay, let's, you know, put the cards on the table. 09:53 Jesus died for everybody. 09:55 And we are all sinners and we are not, you know, 09:59 if we are heterosexual 10:00 that doesn't make us morally superior to homosexuals. 10:04 We need to be very clear because anyone these days, 10:09 who is a believer in heterosexual marriage 10:13 is being accused of being homophobic 10:16 of being essentially racist. 10:18 Absolutely, any good Christian Bible believing Christian 10:23 needs to have charity toward all other people 10:25 but this argument exists on a social 10:28 and legal level that we can't ignore. 10:30 Well, and the real threat for religious freedom 10:33 when it comes to the conflict with gay rights 10:36 is not so much the individual rights as it is 10:40 the institutional rights of church institutions. 10:44 For example, Catholic Adoption Agencies 10:48 in Boston, in Illinois and San Francisco 10:52 have been forced to close their doors 10:54 because they could not comply with the regulations 10:58 that required them to offer services to same sex couples. 11:02 And their services were not welcome 11:05 unless they would conform 11:07 and we are going to see more and more of this 11:10 where religious institutions that will not espouse a policy 11:15 that include same sex couples are simply ruled out of border 11:19 and are forced to close, shutdown or put out of business. 11:25 It remains to be seen 11:27 how this is going to be implemented 11:29 but the implications are quite serious. 11:35 Marriage is an institution 11:37 established by Garden Eden for man. 11:41 It's worth remembering today 11:42 in discussions of the Defensive Marriage Act 11:46 and other actions that none of this can affect 11:49 what God has established as a religious institution. 11:54 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17