Welcome back.
Before the break we were--
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I was taking with
guest Attorney Allen Reinach
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about the DOMA case
and the Proposition 8
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determination by the
Supreme Court recently.
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Both of them really
bearing on the same topic,
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same sex marriage.
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You know, what are some
of the implications of--
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well, not just of their
decision of the whole process
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gay marriage, you know,
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why are religious
people so worried about it.
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I mean the world
is full of you know--
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civil society is full
of all sorts of activities
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that are biblically
aberrant and that we would decry
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even though we have to
charitably relate to old people
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and recognize their
fellow creatures, right?
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We can't condemn
at the people per se.
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As we look at the
subject of the implications
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I want to start
with a basic premise
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and that is that if we
respect the rights of conscience
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then we have to work for
a social and a legal system
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where everyone has a
right of self determination
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that we can live according to
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our own values, our own beliefs.
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The problem is where we're going
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as a result of the
growth of gay rights
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and same sex
marriage in particular.
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Right, this is against
religious belief and practice.
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We're going to a place
where traditional religions
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and their values and
teachings about human sexuality
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become illegal and unacceptable
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and our institutions
are not permitted to exist
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if we're going to
continue with those values.
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Now I give you a
simple illustration
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of how this plays out
in a bill that as we speak
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is expected to be voted
by the California legislature
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and may well be signed into law.
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The Boy Scouts
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that great un-American
bastion of discrimination.
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I'm being so caustic, okay.
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The Boy Scouts
have been targeted
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by the gay
community for a long time.
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Well, they were one of
the first organizations
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to make public
statements on this,
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their attitude towards gays.
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That was about 10 years ago.
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So, there is an
exemption in the law
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for what's called excised taxes
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on the sale of
the intermittent sale,
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the occasional sale of
goods for fund raising.
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Think the girls scout
cookies or think, you know,
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the PTA or the
Homan school they bring--
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they go to Casco
they buy a bunch of drinks
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and chips and
snacks and they sell it
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at the High School football game
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to raise some
money for uniforms, okay.
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Now mind you
they've already paid tax
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when they brought the stuff
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but they are exempt as a
nonprofit as a youth group,
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they are exempt
from paying sales taxes
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on the resale of
this stuff to raise money.
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So the bill in
California would revoke
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the tax exemption of
all of these youth groups,
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unless they submit
to the taxing authority
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a non-discrimination
statement and policy
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that complies with state law.
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And that means that
they are not allowed
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to discriminate on
the basis of religion
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or the basis of
sexual orientation,
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it is thought police stuff.
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So unless these organizations
including religious schools
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that have sports teams
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or churches that
have youth groups
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unless we submit to the
thought police then arguably
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they are going to start
trying to collect sales taxes.
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Now are they really gonna
be able to collect sales taxes?
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I don't think so.
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And even if they do in itself
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that's not going to
destroy the Boy Scouts.
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As a practical matter
this is a shot across the bow.
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It's not a real threat,
it is an ideological threat
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to use the taxing authority
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to punish any groups that adhere
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to traditional religious
values of human sexuality.
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And I say,
religious not Christian,
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because the same
holds in Judaism,
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the same holds in Islam.
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And I don't know other
religions but traditionally,
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you know, human sexuality
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has been
regarded across religions
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as restricted
to a man and woman.
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Yeah, well, it's
sort of Darwinian,
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the survival of the species.
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Well, but this
gets to, you know,
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the thing that nobody
is really talking about
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is there is a very sound
secular reason for society
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and its laws to prefer
heterosexual relationships
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over same sex relationships,
it is the survive--
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It's not illogical.
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Unless you want
to join with those
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who were interested in
shrinking the human species
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from seven
billion to four billion.
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Well, that's what I
said in this editorial.
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Well, not in an
editorial, on an online blog.
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I believe the implications
to this social and legal change
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will be as great as
the population shifts
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and all the flow from that
in the industrial revolution
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which led to women working,
children, child labor for while
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and so on huge
things came from that.
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Now this issue going
back, this issue of tax policy,
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there's a case in New Jersey
involving a Methodist camp
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along the Jersey
shore, they were punished,
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because they refused to
allow an outdoor pavilion
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that was used for
religious services.
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They refused to
allow same sex couple
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to conduct a
commitment ceremony there
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and the tax exempts
status of that real property
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was revoked as a
result and they were,
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they have been prosecuted
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in the New Jersey
Human Rights Organization.
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And this case has been ongoing,
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I haven't heard
any future developments
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in quite some time.
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There is no
question that tax policy
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is at the forefront of the war
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against traditional marriage.
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And I never
really thought it through
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even until we
were discussing it now,
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even though I
knew the Boy Scouts
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is really one of
the opening syllabus.
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Churches I think it's
easier to argue for an exemption
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because of the deeply
held religious moral stands.
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And there are
separation of church and state.
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But in organization,
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the Boy Scouts are not religious
in any shape or in manner.
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I mean this Baden-Powell
an ex-military man said it up,
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he was just exemplifying
the moral mores in the
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social idolism of
training young people.
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Except an awful
lot of Boy Scout troops
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are connected to churches.
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Oh, yes, I know
that but I'm just saying
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it's not like our
Seventh-day Adventist church
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we have pathfinders, which
is structurally modeled after
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but it is tided up to
a church organization.
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Boy Scouts are sort of
out there by themselves
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and you know, I
always think contrarily
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so you could easily make a model
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that they are in
the general marketplace
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and there are
generally applicable social laws
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It's gonna be a hard
battle for them to resist this
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even though there
are practical reasons
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why they are
taking the stance there.
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You say the implications
are going to be enormous
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and I absolutely
agree, what we are seeing
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and I'm gonna do big picture.
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I started with a
specific tax policy.
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But let me backup
to do a big picture.
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In California law,
the status of homosexuals
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has achieved the same
legal status as race, okay.
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And increasingly
throughout the country
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we are legally acquitting
the rights of homosexuals
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to be free of discrimination
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with the right to be
free of racial discrimination.
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It's a good point because I
think that's the poison pill
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of this whole legal thing.
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I mean I have a bit
of, before I get hate mail.
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You know, I'm a
Seventh-day Adventist Christian
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I believe in the Bible
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and I think this
is a moral failing of
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our modern society, I'm
not in favor of homosexuality
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but we can't use
our Christianity to--
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act badly toward
anybody that differs from us
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and we need to be
careful how we relate to them.
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So in that regard
I have no sympathy
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for some
religionist like, you know,
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we had an
article liberty people,
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military funerals, you know
shouting hate stuff because of--
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we can't do that
but by the same token
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we need to stand on our
rights to defend our faith
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and to practice of when
this is used against us.
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We got a
conflict is looming huge.
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I think we need to be
very clear and very public
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that our protection
of religious liberty
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we do not believe
comes at the expense
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of the rights of homosexuals.
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And that's what we
need to make clear.
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It shouldn't be look the--
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The gospel,
Jesus-- Jesus didn't die
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just for straight people.
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Okay, let's, you know,
put the cards on the table.
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Jesus died for everybody.
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And we are all sinners
and we are not, you know,
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if we are heterosexual
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that doesn't make us
morally superior to homosexuals.
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We need to be very clear
because anyone these days,
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who is a believer in
heterosexual marriage
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is being accused
of being homophobic
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of being essentially racist.
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Absolutely, any good Christian
Bible believing Christian
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needs to have charity
toward all other people
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but this argument
exists on a social
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and legal level
that we can't ignore.
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Well, and the real
threat for religious freedom
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when it comes to the
conflict with gay rights
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is not so much the
individual rights as it is
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the institutional
rights of church institutions.
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For example,
Catholic Adoption Agencies
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in Boston, in
Illinois and San Francisco
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have been forced
to close their doors
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because they could not
comply with the regulations
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that required them to offer
services to same sex couples.
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And their
services were not welcome
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unless they would conform
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and we are going to
see more and more of this
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where religious institutions
that will not espouse a policy
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that include same sex couples
are simply ruled out of border
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and are forced to close,
shutdown or put out of business.
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It remains to be seen
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how this is
going to be implemented
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but the
implications are quite serious.
00:11:29.25\00:11:32.66
Marriage is an institution
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established by
Garden Eden for man.
00:11:37.81\00:11:41.26
It's worth remembering today
00:11:41.29\00:11:42.87
in discussions of the
Defensive Marriage Act
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and other actions that
none of this can affect
00:11:46.38\00:11:49.33
what God has established
as a religious institution.
00:11:49.36\00:11:54.57
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:54.60\00:11:57.54