Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Allen Reinach
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000228B
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00:08 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:10 Before the break, our viewers will remember 00:12 that Allen Reinach and I were talking about 00:15 the Workplace Religious Freedom Act, 00:17 first on the federal level 00:18 which was well discussed, well supported 00:22 but ultimately pitted out 00:25 but now in California we have seen some light 00:28 in the tunnel, you had some great success. 00:30 So explain little bit of the background 00:33 on what specifically you are trying 00:35 to accomplish there in California 00:37 with the Workplace Religious Freedom initiative. 00:39 Well, first a little bit of the history 00:41 of how we got it-- how we got it done. 00:43 One of our assembly members had attended a rally 00:46 that was sponsored by the Muslim and Sikh communities 00:50 about the violence that they have suffered 00:53 in the wake of 9/11 and she-- 00:58 this assembly woman Mariko Yamada 01:02 was very sympathetic and asked 01:04 what she could do to help. 01:05 What could we do legally with passing laws 01:09 and the director of the Sikh Coalition said, really, 01:13 you know by law what we can do most effectively 01:17 is deal with the workplace discrimination issues. 01:21 Sikh's wear turbans and are often excluded. 01:24 There wear beards, they are excluded from law enforcement 01:28 and from many sectors of the economy 01:30 because of their religious expression and their appearance. 01:34 So they drafted a workplace religious freedom act. 01:37 We quickly jumped on board 01:39 and we are able to put together a large coalition 01:42 that included many faith groups 01:44 and also civil rights groups 01:45 because we work very closely 01:47 with various civil rights groups. 01:49 But you have stated the obvious 01:51 though that in the workplace there are certain religions 01:53 that have more particular 01:55 and regular needs for accommodation 01:57 because of the nature of their faith. True. 01:59 But it's not intended to be limited to any faith. 02:03 Well, we did that's true. 02:06 We did--there were three major things that the bill did. 02:09 Because I can remember another guest here, Bruce Cameron 02:12 presenting some accommodations 02:14 in fact I forgot what state, 02:16 in one state it was particularly stated in the statute 02:20 that this was to accommodate Seventh-day Adventist and that-- 02:24 Well, that was article 9 to section 9-- 02:26 We dimly regarded the other faiths. 02:28 Yeah, International Labor Relations Act. 02:31 Religious favoritisms consistent with the constitution 02:34 we want to write it's a plentiful. 02:35 Now, it has to-- look, religious liberty means 02:38 nothing unless it means liberty for everybody. 02:41 It's got--you know if you are not prepared 02:44 to respect the other guys beliefs than don't expect 02:48 any respect for your own. 02:50 Religious liberty is not freedom to believe the way I do. 02:54 Although, that's how too many Americans think of it. 02:56 And that's a good point that we need to reiterate. 03:00 Obviously, as Seventh-day Adventist we have-- 03:02 we come to the table with our own viewpoint 03:04 and we want to protect that viewpoint 03:06 but if you never see the bigger picture 03:09 eventually you are going to lose 03:11 and others will treat us the way we are looking at. 03:13 At the Church State Council I was taught 03:16 when I first came on board 03:18 that we will help people of any faith 03:20 who suffer religious discrimination 03:22 and that has been tested over the years 03:24 and when I say this to church members 03:28 they are all appreciative of the fact 03:30 that we represent Catholics, 03:32 we represent Mormons, Jews, Muslims, 03:35 we represent people of any faith 03:37 who suffer religious discrimination. 03:40 And we do so, you know, saying to them 03:42 you know we have our own deeply held religious convictions 03:46 and they are different from yours 03:47 but we do this because we respect 03:49 everyone's right to worship God 03:51 according to the dictates of conscience. 03:52 Now, I'm just sharing this for a reason, 03:53 when you first introduced this it was the Sikhs 03:56 who most people don't know very well. 03:58 That right. 03:59 The reason for their harassments 04:01 since 9/11 is very simple. 04:02 They are mistaken for Muslims. Correct. 04:04 And 9/11 woke up the great sleeping 04:07 American populous in particular 04:09 who knew nothing about Islam 04:11 but now they know that it's dangerous 04:13 "Now that it's dangerous." Sure. 04:15 But that's even if-- not if even 04:17 as there is a radical Islam that in its political form 04:22 is extremely dangerous 04:24 there are millions indeed billions of Muslim 04:28 who deserve to have their faith respected. 04:32 So we need to keep this view in mind 04:34 even in the war on terror, even as way you know, 04:37 we are dealing or observing radical Islam 04:40 on the rise in Egypt and so on. 04:43 People of any faith especially perhaps Islam 04:47 since this test the principle 04:49 we need to defend the right of these people to practice 04:54 peacefully their religious faith. 04:56 So what we did with the Workplace Religious Freedom Act 04:59 is three things. 05:00 Number one, put in explicit language 05:04 that religious expression 05:06 through dress and appearance is protected broadly. 05:10 So whether It's a Christian wearing a cross 05:12 or Jewish man wearing a Yarmulke, 05:15 a Sikh man wearing a beard or a turban whatever it is. 05:21 Muslim woman wearing a Hijab 05:23 that is protected in the workplace. 05:26 The second thing, which is revolutionary 05:29 never before anywhere voted is what Mariko Yamada, 05:34 testified was to Rosa Parks measure of the 21st century. 05:40 You can no longer segregate a worker 05:44 because of their religious appearance. 05:47 You can't Abercrombie and Fitch 05:49 can't take the Muslim woman 05:51 and put her in the stock room away 05:53 from the customers. 05:55 That's what they do. 05:56 You know, if you don't meet the corporate appearance code 05:59 then you're shunted away from the customers. 06:02 That's no longer illegal in California. 06:05 We are going to have a more diverse 06:07 appearing workplace, you are not going to see 06:11 corporate appearance codes 06:13 dominating over religious expression. 06:15 You know, that's something like the London Barbie 06:17 with the Sikh turban and the beard around. 06:20 Well, they are allowed in London 06:21 but why not--and in and in some cities-- 06:23 That's why I threw that in. In some cities-- 06:26 We do see that in England. Yeah, you do see. 06:28 There are places in law enforcement 06:31 where Sikhs are allowed but most places they are not. 06:34 The final thing which is of key for us as Sabbath observers, 06:37 as Seventh-day Adventists is to define the requirement 06:42 to provide religious accommodation 06:43 short of an undo hardship 06:45 in terms of a significant difficulty or expanse. 06:49 The burden on the employer 06:51 they have to show that really 06:53 we can't accommodate you 06:55 without having a serious negative impact on our business. 06:58 Well, isn't--wasn't our intend in promoting this 07:02 legislation federally, initially 07:04 and now you are carrying it on 07:05 to change the burden of proof because on this-- 07:09 Right. If you put the show in a overwhelming way 07:12 why you should have the accommodation 07:14 and the employer was let off the hook with the de minimis. 07:16 If you are to get the accommodation unless 07:18 he can show that is a burden beyond the de minimis 07:22 then you are on a safer ground. 07:23 Right, so it's not a burden of proof as such 07:27 but it is the burden is-- right the burden 07:30 is on the employer to show that really if we accommodate you 07:35 It's not gonna work for our business to do that. 07:38 And it's very rare that an employer 07:42 really cannot accommodate. 07:44 Now there was a case involving a large national company 07:49 that operates very small operations 07:52 with only half a dozen people 07:54 and they needed everybody on Saturday 07:56 and they won recently because the court said that 08:00 you know, there just weren't enough people 08:02 if you only have six employees 08:04 to regularly let the Seventh-day Adventists on work. 08:07 Yes, easily the smaller employer 08:08 with a very practical consideration 08:11 at work from the employer not the bigger ones. 08:13 Well, in most places companies know how to get the work done. 08:20 We have a case that's pending as we speak 08:23 involving a part time postal clerk 08:27 and you know, what part of the testimony 08:30 we had management talking about how, 08:33 you know, the old saying about rain, 08:36 sleet, snow whatever. 08:37 You guys, you know, you guys know 08:39 how to get the mail delivered. 08:40 Don't you, no matter what. 08:42 No matter who calls in sick, no matter, 08:44 you know who is gone, 08:45 you know how to get the job done. 08:47 So why do you think that it was such a problem 08:50 when our guy missed four Saturdays out of the year. 08:54 You know, why did he have to get fired 08:55 for missing four Saturdays. 08:58 Is their saying still true or they disavowing that? 09:00 No, they didn't disavow it you know they are proud 09:04 of their ability to get the mail delivered. 09:06 Yeah. But they think they have the right to, 09:09 you know, tell somebody you have to work on Saturdays 09:12 and if you are not going to work on Saturdays we can fire you. 09:15 Of course, in law, you know, 09:19 there is a position and then people 09:20 come to defend that they may not always 09:22 personally believe in the full logic of it 09:25 but that's this--that's their stance isn't it so that-- 09:28 I know you hear some-- It's a matter of policies. 09:30 Over the stated stuff. Well, no. 09:32 What I mean on the-- you exposed it there 09:35 on the simplest level that the post offices 09:38 they can do organization. 09:40 The problem with these companies is this military attitude 09:45 we make the rules and you have to comply with them. 09:48 Yeah, well, the rules are made first amendment, right. 09:51 We need to go back to that 09:53 and the founding principles of the United States 09:55 religious freedom is not just 09:58 a bonus on top of civil liberties. 10:01 It's so integral, you know, 10:03 on one of other programs we discussed it, 10:05 the protestant reformation and so on. 10:07 Well, but where religious liberty really meets, 10:11 you know, the rubber meets the road is in the workplace. 10:14 There's so many issues that we can talk about 10:16 and people are concerned about but every business day 10:20 there are Americans, several Americans 10:23 losing their jobs for no other crime than their faith. 10:26 Now in California we have made a dent in it 10:28 by passing the Workplace Religious Freedom Act 10:31 and we hope that other states 10:32 will take the lead from our example and do likewise. 10:40 It's rather sobering to realize 10:42 that in the Untied States as in other countries 10:45 ruled by law, the constitution stands 10:48 as a guideline and a guarantee perhaps of freedoms 10:52 but in reality day by day 10:54 those freedoms are worked out through precedent, 10:56 through application and can be challenged 11:00 and can be diluted by events. 11:04 In the Untied States much of our efforts 11:06 for religious freedom concern 11:08 protecting people in the workplace. 11:11 And as Revelation says regarding an attack 11:14 on those of faith, it may come to time 11:17 when they cannot buy nor sell. 11:19 In reality if you lose your job you can't easily buy or sell. 11:24 You may have to sell your goods to survive 11:26 for a little while but it's very important 11:28 to have a livelihood. 11:29 The Workplace Religious Freedom Act 11:32 has been an initiative on the federal level 11:35 and now worked out on the state level 11:37 to show up a deteriorating 11:40 free exercise situation in the workplace. 11:42 And I would like to encourage our viewers 11:44 to keep this in mind, keep it in your prayers 11:47 and realize that the laws are only good and protect you 11:51 as they are applied diligently and with prayer 11:55 and applied on the behalf of the faithful. 11:59 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17