Welcome back to
the "Liberty Insider."
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Before the break,
our viewers will remember
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that Allen Reinach
and I were talking about
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the Workplace
Religious Freedom Act,
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first on the federal level
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which was well
discussed, well supported
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but ultimately pitted out
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but now in California
we have seen some light
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in the tunnel, you
had some great success.
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So explain little
bit of the background
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on what
specifically you are trying
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to accomplish
there in California
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with the Workplace
Religious Freedom initiative.
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Well, first a
little bit of the history
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of how we got it--
how we got it done.
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One of our assembly
members had attended a rally
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that was sponsored by the
Muslim and Sikh communities
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about the violence
that they have suffered
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in the wake of 9/11 and she--
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this assembly
woman Mariko Yamada
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was very sympathetic and asked
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what she could do to help.
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What could we do
legally with passing laws
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and the director of the
Sikh Coalition said, really,
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you know by law what
we can do most effectively
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is deal with the
workplace discrimination issues.
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Sikh's wear turbans
and are often excluded.
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There wear beards, they are
excluded from law enforcement
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and from many
sectors of the economy
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because of their religious
expression and their appearance.
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So they drafted a
workplace religious freedom act.
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We quickly jumped on board
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and we are able to put
together a large coalition
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that included many faith groups
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and also civil rights groups
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because we work very closely
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with various
civil rights groups.
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But you have stated the obvious
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though that in the workplace
there are certain religions
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that have more particular
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and regular
needs for accommodation
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because of the
nature of their faith. True.
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But it's not intended
to be limited to any faith.
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Well, we did that's true.
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We did--there were three
major things that the bill did.
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Because I can remember another
guest here, Bruce Cameron
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presenting some accommodations
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in fact I forgot what state,
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in one state it was particularly
stated in the statute
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that this was to accommodate
Seventh-day Adventist and that--
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Well, that was
article 9 to section 9--
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We dimly
regarded the other faiths.
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Yeah, International
Labor Relations Act.
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Religious favoritisms
consistent with the constitution
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we want to write
it's a plentiful.
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Now, it has to-- look,
religious liberty means
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nothing unless it
means liberty for everybody.
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It's got--you know
if you are not prepared
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to respect the other
guys beliefs than don't expect
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any respect for your own.
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Religious liberty is not
freedom to believe the way I do.
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Although, that's how too
many Americans think of it.
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And that's a good point
that we need to reiterate.
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Obviously, as
Seventh-day Adventist we have--
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we come to the table
with our own viewpoint
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and we want to
protect that viewpoint
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but if you never
see the bigger picture
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eventually you are going to lose
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and others will treat us
the way we are looking at.
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At the Church State
Council I was taught
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when I first came on board
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that we will help
people of any faith
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who suffer
religious discrimination
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and that has been
tested over the years
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and when I say
this to church members
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they are all
appreciative of the fact
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that we represent Catholics,
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we represent
Mormons, Jews, Muslims,
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we represent people of any faith
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who suffer
religious discrimination.
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And we do so, you
know, saying to them
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you know we have our own deeply
held religious convictions
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and they are
different from yours
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but we do this
because we respect
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everyone's right to worship God
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according to the
dictates of conscience.
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Now, I'm just
sharing this for a reason,
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when you first
introduced this it was the Sikhs
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who most people
don't know very well.
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That right.
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The reason for their harassments
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since 9/11 is very simple.
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They are mistaken
for Muslims. Correct.
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And 9/11 woke up
the great sleeping
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American populous in particular
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who knew nothing about Islam
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but now they know
that it's dangerous
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"Now that it's dangerous." Sure.
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But that's even if-- not if even
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as there is a radical
Islam that in its political form
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is extremely dangerous
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there are millions
indeed billions of Muslim
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who deserve to have
their faith respected.
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So we need to
keep this view in mind
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even in the war on
terror, even as way you know,
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we are dealing or
observing radical Islam
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on the rise in Egypt and so on.
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People of any faith
especially perhaps Islam
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since this test the principle
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we need to defend the right
of these people to practice
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peacefully
their religious faith.
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So what we did with the
Workplace Religious Freedom Act
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is three things.
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Number one, put
in explicit language
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that religious expression
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through dress and
appearance is protected broadly.
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So whether It's a
Christian wearing a cross
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or Jewish man
wearing a Yarmulke,
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a Sikh man wearing a beard
or a turban whatever it is.
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Muslim woman wearing a Hijab
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that is
protected in the workplace.
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The second thing,
which is revolutionary
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never before anywhere
voted is what Mariko Yamada,
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testified was to Rosa Parks
measure of the 21st century.
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You can no longer
segregate a worker
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because of their
religious appearance.
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You can't Abercrombie and Fitch
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can't take the Muslim woman
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and put her in
the stock room away
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from the customers.
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That's what they do.
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You know, if you don't meet
the corporate appearance code
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then you're shunted
away from the customers.
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That's no longer
illegal in California.
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We are going to
have a more diverse
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appearing workplace,
you are not going to see
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corporate appearance codes
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dominating over
religious expression.
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You know, that's
something like the London Barbie
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with the Sikh turban
and the beard around.
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Well, they are allowed in London
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but why not--and in
and in some cities--
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That's why I threw
that in. In some cities--
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We do see that in
England. Yeah, you do see.
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There are places
in law enforcement
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where Sikhs are allowed
but most places they are not.
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The final thing which is of
key for us as Sabbath observers,
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as Seventh-day Adventists
is to define the requirement
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to provide
religious accommodation
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short of an undo hardship
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in terms of a significant
difficulty or expanse.
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The burden on the employer
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they have to show that really
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we can't accommodate you
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without having a serious
negative impact on our business.
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Well, isn't--wasn't our
intend in promoting this
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legislation federally, initially
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and now you are carrying it on
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to change the burden
of proof because on this--
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Right. If you put the
show in a overwhelming way
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why you should
have the accommodation
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and the employer was let off
the hook with the de minimis.
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If you are to get
the accommodation unless
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he can show that is a
burden beyond the de minimis
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then you are on a safer ground.
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Right, so it's not a
burden of proof as such
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but it is the burden
is-- right the burden
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is on the employer to show that
really if we accommodate you
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It's not gonna work for
our business to do that.
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And it's very
rare that an employer
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really cannot accommodate.
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Now there was a case involving
a large national company
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that operates
very small operations
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with only half a dozen people
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and they needed
everybody on Saturday
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and they won recently
because the court said that
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you know, there just
weren't enough people
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if you only have six employees
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to regularly let the
Seventh-day Adventists on work.
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Yes, easily the smaller employer
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with a very
practical consideration
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at work from the
employer not the bigger ones.
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Well, in most places companies
know how to get the work done.
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We have a case
that's pending as we speak
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involving a part
time postal clerk
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and you know, what
part of the testimony
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we had management
talking about how,
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you know, the old
saying about rain,
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sleet, snow whatever.
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You guys, you
know, you guys know
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how to get the mail delivered.
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Don't you, no matter what.
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No matter who
calls in sick, no matter,
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you know who is gone,
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you know how to
get the job done.
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So why do you think
that it was such a problem
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when our guy missed four
Saturdays out of the year.
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You know, why did
he have to get fired
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for missing four Saturdays.
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Is their saying still
true or they disavowing that?
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No, they didn't disavow
it you know they are proud
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of their ability to
get the mail delivered.
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Yeah. But they think
they have the right to,
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you know, tell somebody
you have to work on Saturdays
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and if you are not going to work
on Saturdays we can fire you.
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Of course, in law, you know,
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there is a
position and then people
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come to defend
that they may not always
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personally believe
in the full logic of it
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but that's this--that's
their stance isn't it so that--
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I know you hear some--
It's a matter of policies.
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Over the stated stuff. Well, no.
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What I mean on
the-- you exposed it there
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on the simplest
level that the post offices
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they can do organization.
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The problem with these companies
is this military attitude
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we make the rules and
you have to comply with them.
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Yeah, well, the rules are
made first amendment, right.
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We need to go back to that
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and the founding
principles of the United States
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religious freedom is not just
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a bonus on top
of civil liberties.
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It's so integral, you know,
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on one of other
programs we discussed it,
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the protestant
reformation and so on.
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Well, but where
religious liberty really meets,
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you know, the rubber meets
the road is in the workplace.
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There's so many
issues that we can talk about
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and people are concerned
about but every business day
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there are
Americans, several Americans
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losing their jobs for no
other crime than their faith.
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Now in California we
have made a dent in it
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by passing the
Workplace Religious Freedom Act
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and we hope that other states
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will take the lead from
our example and do likewise.
00:10:32.81\00:10:37.66
It's rather sobering to realize
00:10:40.82\00:10:42.56
that in the Untied
States as in other countries
00:10:42.59\00:10:45.34
ruled by law, the
constitution stands
00:10:45.37\00:10:48.49
as a guideline and a
guarantee perhaps of freedoms
00:10:48.52\00:10:52.37
but in reality day by day
00:10:52.40\00:10:54.26
those freedoms are
worked out through precedent,
00:10:54.29\00:10:56.74
through application
and can be challenged
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and can be diluted by events.
00:11:00.20\00:11:04.62
In the Untied
States much of our efforts
00:11:04.65\00:11:06.79
for religious freedom concern
00:11:06.82\00:11:08.25
protecting
people in the workplace.
00:11:08.28\00:11:11.33
And as Revelation
says regarding an attack
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on those of faith,
it may come to time
00:11:14.86\00:11:17.03
when they cannot buy nor sell.
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In reality if you lose your job
you can't easily buy or sell.
00:11:19.73\00:11:24.38
You may have to sell
your goods to survive
00:11:24.41\00:11:26.16
for a little while
but it's very important
00:11:26.19\00:11:28.29
to have a livelihood.
00:11:28.32\00:11:29.76
The Workplace
Religious Freedom Act
00:11:29.79\00:11:32.13
has been an
initiative on the federal level
00:11:32.16\00:11:35.21
and now worked
out on the state level
00:11:35.24\00:11:37.38
to show up a deteriorating
00:11:37.41\00:11:40.12
free exercise
situation in the workplace.
00:11:40.15\00:11:42.78
And I would like to
encourage our viewers
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to keep this in mind,
keep it in your prayers
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and realize that the laws
are only good and protect you
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as they are applied
diligently and with prayer
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and applied on the
behalf of the faithful.
00:11:55.84\00:11:59.35
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:59.38\00:12:02.35