Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000221B
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00:06 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:09 Before the break with my guest, Imam Shamshad, 00:14 I must be getting tired of it, it's not popping up. 00:18 We were talking about many things and ended up 00:20 with blasphemy. 00:22 Which is become a very flashpoint issue 00:26 in the Islamic world, that I think I stir into mix 00:29 that the Christian world had a long run with this 00:32 in medieval Europe where the church was 00:35 hyposensitive to blasphemy 00:37 which is a thoroughly biblical model 00:40 and I know the Quran says much on it. 00:42 But I think in the modern world it's not given to us, 00:45 is it to take matters into our own hands 00:48 and execute judgment on the blasphemy. 00:50 They risk their eternal destiny to make 00:54 lot of spiritual things. 00:56 Quran explain this thing that even you should not 01:00 abuse the idols of those who worship the idols. 01:06 And Quran does not say that if somebody comment 01:10 the blasphemy you take revenge from him. 01:13 And rather it is a matter of God. 01:16 God will take care of that person. 01:19 Your duty is to provide freedom 01:22 and it is the time for jihad and jihad means, 01:27 what Ahmadiyya Muslim Community that with pen. 01:30 If people are writing the books and you want to 01:32 cut their head, it does not match anything with that. 01:37 Well, it's out of proportion and nothing else. 01:39 Right, so what Ahmadiyya Muslim Community mean 01:43 is that, if somebody is writing against you, 01:46 pages and pages, hundreds of pages 01:49 and you say okay I want to cut your throat, 01:52 does it match any where with the Islamic teaching? 01:55 I would hurt not. Right, that what I mean. 01:58 So it means this is time for pen, jihad with pen. 02:02 So you write if they are writing the books 02:05 you also write the books. 02:06 That is the Promised Messiah the founder of 02:08 the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has mentioned that, 02:15 it is the poem and the word it means, 02:18 that the work which--was shown by sword this time 02:22 we have shown it by pen. 02:25 That means shining argumentation 02:28 from the Quran and the example of the prophet of Islam-- 02:31 Let me ask you a question and it's just popped that 02:33 in my head under the blue, but I heard a program 02:35 the other day put on by an Islamic-- 02:38 collation of Islamic Organizations 02:41 and they were trying 02:42 to untangle the puzzle of why lately so many young 02:48 Islamic men are attracted to--you know, the wrong 02:52 sort of jihad what often turns out to be violent. 02:56 And they made a comment and now just, 02:58 you just sitting your-- 02:59 My comments. 03:00 Comment on what they said, they said that most times 03:05 that was the end result of the family breakup 03:08 or disillusionment with their own life experience 03:11 or they were felt alienated in they were in 03:16 another country, the culture they are not fitting in 03:18 that it was a personal dislocation 03:21 that then fitted in nicely. 03:23 Someone else suggested well, the religion says 03:25 now you can do this. 03:27 But they were using religion to act on, 03:30 on what was really a personal grudge. 03:32 I think if they are saying and they are doing maybe 03:35 that is right for them 03:36 because our Ahmadiyya Muslim Community-- 03:39 You don't have that-- 03:40 Right, right, that if they have this problem-- 03:42 The Ahmadiyya worldview or doctrinal worldview 03:45 would not lend itself to this anyhow. Right. 03:47 If this is their problem and because of 03:49 that they are doing this thing. 03:51 They know better their own home. 03:52 That's a very good response from Ahmadiyya. 03:54 They know their home better than me. 03:55 But I just thought that was an interesting analysis. 03:57 Yeah. 03:58 And of course, I could take it further 04:00 and it just whatever the reason it means that the person 04:04 is not thinking spiritually they're 04:05 applying human biases in this case frustration 04:10 and using religion to justify. 04:12 That is true, this can be, this can be. 04:16 But this is not our point of view and we don't 04:19 and we don't teach anything violence against anybody 04:23 even at our homes. Yeah. 04:25 At our homes because these are the people 04:28 who are learning from home then to the Madrassas 04:31 and other places. 04:32 By the grace of God in our community, 04:34 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, we have missionary college also, 04:37 where I went for after my high school graduation 04:40 for seven years I read the-- I went through 04:43 the comparative study of the religion, Quran, 04:46 Hadees another faith religion we learned there 04:48 and by the grace of God we are learning so much 04:52 so that we can preach to the world, peace, love, 04:56 respect, understanding and tolerance. 04:59 Most things that certainly needed and they should 05:01 exist no matter what to believe system is 05:03 because they're attributes of all high minded 05:09 spiritual commitment. 05:10 They're not specific to an understating 05:12 of this God or where you are when you dead and so on. 05:15 Those should be high ideals 05:17 that should be in common. 05:18 In fact, let me say it further, more detail 05:25 that not only we are in our education we are learning 05:30 tolerance and love, understating, respect 05:33 and because of that our slogan is love for all 05:35 and hated for none. 05:36 Our present khalifa, present successor, 05:39 fifth successor of the Promised Messiah, 05:41 I will say, he is the champion of peace this time. 05:44 He wrote letter to the president of Obama, 05:48 president of Israel, Prime Minister of Israel 05:50 or President of Iran, and other even pope 05:54 and he asked them that look, look to the time 05:59 where we are going. 06:01 The world is heading to the destruction 06:03 and it is your responsibility all of you to save it otherwise 06:08 the III world war is clouds are there. 06:12 Yes, and that's probably true. 06:16 God needs--man needs to discover God before is too late 06:19 the world is on a self destruction course. 06:21 Last year--last year in June his holiness, 06:24 Mirza Masood Ahmed the fifth successor 06:26 of our founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, 06:29 Mirza Masood he visited Capitol Hill and-- 06:33 Yeah, I read the report. You read the report. 06:35 He made, it's a very good context. 06:36 Yes, he said very good things for peace. 06:38 And of course, we would hope that all religious leaders 06:43 could be so moved the Dalai Lama is often 06:45 quoted as he does go around and speaking 06:48 well for peace. 06:50 I think all people of good faith or not all people, 06:53 many people of good faith or able to see 06:56 that the will is on self destructive course. 06:58 And cynics, I'm sure you've heard, 07:01 say that religion is part of the problem 07:04 that but we people that I'm at the highest spirituality 07:07 of the law we can see that it could be part of the-- 07:11 well, not just part it might be the only solution. 07:13 Oh yeah, that what I want to say 07:15 that religion is the only solution this time. 07:17 Yes. 07:18 For the--to bring the peace in the world. 07:20 They are missed understood the religion when they say 07:24 that is the problem. 07:25 No, religion did not bring any problem, 07:27 it is the understanding of the people brought 07:30 and it is not the religion. 07:31 So they have to get to know the real knowledge, 07:34 correct knowledge of the religion 07:36 What I said, once at the Religious Liberty Conference 07:38 to shock people but I believe it. 07:40 I got up and I said there is way too much religion 07:43 in this world. 07:44 Way too much religion but not enough spirituality. 07:48 Because religion in a structural sense 07:51 and the some people will fight to jihad and other people 07:55 will bomb an abortion clinic. 07:57 That is a very destructive application 08:00 of religious identity. 08:01 The true religion doesn't lead to that sort of thing. 08:03 You know, sometime people don't understand 08:05 what is the meaning of true spirituality. 08:08 In Ahmadiyya point of view, there are two terminology 08:11 are used one is spirituality, one is morality. 08:15 Spirituality means you have strong relationship with God. 08:18 When you have strong relation with God 08:20 where is the violence then? 08:22 Yeah. The God teaches the violence then? 08:25 No. Then that's all. 08:27 So when spiritually you're closer to God 08:30 then you cannot commit the crime, 08:32 you cannot commit the violence at all. 08:35 And morality mean, that you have good relation 08:38 with human being, you respect them. 08:40 In both terminology there is no violence at all. 08:43 Absolutely, and it's a great tragedy of old time 08:46 but particularly the modern age, 08:49 the religion is so much associated with violence 08:51 and conflict and it's really a contradiction. 08:54 It's not--it's not connected to its real 08:57 value and gold and true expression, isn't it? 09:02 You know, the people become more worldly 09:04 then the godly. 09:07 It's a good quote because that's all I could 09:08 almost think of some Bible quotes would parallel. 09:11 It--if they become more worldly then the godly. 09:14 Jesus says, something about the people 09:18 of this world are wise in their own ways. 09:21 Yeah, so in my own opinion as I read the Quran 09:25 or the Bible or the history of the prophets 09:28 and the Prophet of Islam, I don't see any where at all, 09:33 violence. 09:35 Only the people for their own interest 09:38 they create the violence. 09:41 Then they are not closer to God, 09:43 then they don't consider the interest of the human being, 09:46 interest of the people. 09:49 Then such a things are happening and taking place 09:53 in the world. 09:54 Very good, very good statement. 09:56 We're getting close to the end of this the last 09:59 and I don't know which order our shows will be shown 10:02 but this is the last of our discussions 10:05 and it's been a pleasure to talk to you about these, 10:08 these issues and I think we'll do it again sometime. 10:12 But you know, how would you sum up the need 10:15 today in the United States. 10:16 Well, let's we put it in another way. 10:18 Your community is quite numerous 10:21 in the United States, are you finding success 10:24 in rising above all of the prejudices 10:27 and the panic of now post 9/11, 10:31 are you able to practice your faith 10:35 clearly and without obstruction. 10:37 Of course there is no doubt at after 9/11 10:40 we will--we were all subject of the-- 10:43 this prejudice and other things 10:45 but we do not mind it. 10:47 Because it was natural reaction of the people, 10:49 natural reaction of the people but-- 10:53 And really people look very panicked. 10:54 Yeah. 10:55 They didn't know what is happening. 10:56 And what we did that all our area, 11:00 all our missionaries and the people of the community 11:04 they went all around to see people to talk 11:07 with them, to remove their misunderstating, 11:09 misconception, telling that although it was 11:11 very difficult, it was very challenging for us to do. 11:15 But we were, we are successful by the grace 11:18 of God and we are still doing that one 11:21 and I think that-- 11:22 So you believe that good is come out-- 11:24 Of course, of course it is good is coming 11:28 and it will continue to come. 11:30 Our message will be to the people this time, 11:32 first of all I want to thank you, inviting me 11:34 to this program which is very important 11:37 and which provide the liberty and the freedom of faith 11:41 to exercise and I think it is the hallmark 11:44 and theme should be of our all faith and religion. 11:47 And my point is that let us maintain respect 11:52 of others. 11:53 Let us come closer to each other so that 11:56 we should understand each other. 11:58 Let us we should not to remain and living 12:01 ignorance so that we don't know our neighbor, 12:04 we don't know the faith of other people 12:05 what they're doing. 12:07 I think may God bless you all 12:09 and love for all hated for none. 12:15 On one occasion some of the disciples of Jesus 12:17 offended at the local reaction said to the Lord, 12:21 you know, shouldn't we bring the fire of God down 12:23 from heaven and destroy these people. 12:26 Jesus said, no. 12:28 And I think the replies same today. 12:30 Nobody whether they're Christian certainly Muslim 12:33 or any body of faith is justify in bringing down 12:37 destruction and calling upon a hate reaction 12:40 for spiritual situation. 12:45 Our world has too much violence today, 12:47 we need dialogue between religions. 12:50 We need understanding. 12:52 We certainly don't need to syncretistic response 12:55 but we need people of faith to realize that violence, 12:58 corrosion is inimical to true faith 13:02 and certainly antagonistic to any sort of the concept 13:05 of religious liberty for all people. 13:10 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17