Welcome back to
the "Liberty Insider."
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Before the break with
my guest, Imam Shamshad,
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I must be getting tired
of it, it's not popping up.
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We were talking about
many things and ended up
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with blasphemy.
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Which is become a
very flashpoint issue
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in the Islamic world,
that I think I stir into mix
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that the Christian
world had a long run with this
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in medieval Europe
where the church was
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hyposensitive to blasphemy
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which is a
thoroughly biblical model
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and I know the
Quran says much on it.
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But I think in the modern
world it's not given to us,
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is it to take
matters into our own hands
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and execute
judgment on the blasphemy.
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They risk their
eternal destiny to make
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lot of spiritual things.
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Quran explain this
thing that even you should not
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abuse the idols of
those who worship the idols.
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And Quran does not say
that if somebody comment
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the blasphemy you
take revenge from him.
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And rather it
is a matter of God.
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God will take
care of that person.
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Your duty is to provide freedom
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and it is the time
for jihad and jihad means,
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what Ahmadiyya Muslim
Community that with pen.
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If people are writing
the books and you want to
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cut their head, it does
not match anything with that.
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Well, it's out of
proportion and nothing else.
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Right, so what
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community mean
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is that, if somebody
is writing against you,
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pages and pages,
hundreds of pages
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and you say okay I
want to cut your throat,
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does it match any where
with the Islamic teaching?
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I would hurt not.
Right, that what I mean.
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So it means this is
time for pen, jihad with pen.
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So you write if they
are writing the books
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you also write the books.
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That is the Promised
Messiah the founder of
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the Ahmadiyya Muslim
Community has mentioned that,
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it is the poem
and the word it means,
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that the work which--was
shown by sword this time
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we have shown it by pen.
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That means shining argumentation
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from the Quran and the example
of the prophet of Islam--
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Let me ask you a question
and it's just popped that
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in my head under the
blue, but I heard a program
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the other day put
on by an Islamic--
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collation of
Islamic Organizations
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and they were trying
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to untangle the puzzle
of why lately so many young
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Islamic men are attracted
to--you know, the wrong
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sort of jihad what
often turns out to be violent.
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And they made a
comment and now just,
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you just sitting your--
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My comments.
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Comment on what they
said, they said that most times
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that was the end
result of the family breakup
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or disillusionment with
their own life experience
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or they were felt
alienated in they were in
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another country, the
culture they are not fitting in
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that it was a
personal dislocation
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that then fitted in nicely.
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Someone else suggested
well, the religion says
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now you can do this.
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But they were
using religion to act on,
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on what was
really a personal grudge.
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I think if they are
saying and they are doing maybe
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that is right for them
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because our
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community--
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You don't have that--
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Right, right, that if
they have this problem--
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The Ahmadiyya
worldview or doctrinal worldview
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would not lend itself
to this anyhow. Right.
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If this is their
problem and because of
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that they are doing this thing.
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They know better their own home.
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That's a very good
response from Ahmadiyya.
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They know their
home better than me.
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But I just thought that
was an interesting analysis.
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Yeah.
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And of course, I
could take it further
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and it just whatever the
reason it means that the person
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is not thinking
spiritually they're
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applying human biases
in this case frustration
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and using religion to justify.
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That is true, this
can be, this can be.
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But this is not our
point of view and we don't
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and we don't teach anything
violence against anybody
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even at our homes. Yeah.
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At our homes
because these are the people
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who are learning from
home then to the Madrassas
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and other places.
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By the grace of
God in our community,
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Ahmadiyya Muslim Community,
we have missionary college also,
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where I went for after
my high school graduation
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for seven years I
read the-- I went through
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the comparative study
of the religion, Quran,
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Hadees another faith
religion we learned there
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and by the grace of
God we are learning so much
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so that we can preach
to the world, peace, love,
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respect,
understanding and tolerance.
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Most things that
certainly needed and they should
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exist no matter
what to believe system is
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because they're
attributes of all high minded
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spiritual commitment.
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They're not
specific to an understating
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of this God or where you
are when you dead and so on.
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Those should be high ideals
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that should be in common.
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In fact, let me say
it further, more detail
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that not only we are in
our education we are learning
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tolerance and love,
understating, respect
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and because of that
our slogan is love for all
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and hated for none.
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Our present
khalifa, present successor,
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fifth successor of
the Promised Messiah,
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I will say, he is the
champion of peace this time.
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He wrote letter to
the president of Obama,
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president of Israel,
Prime Minister of Israel
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or President of
Iran, and other even pope
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and he asked them
that look, look to the time
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where we are going.
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The world is
heading to the destruction
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and it is your responsibility
all of you to save it otherwise
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the III world war
is clouds are there.
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Yes, and that's probably true.
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God needs--man needs to
discover God before is too late
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the world is on a
self destruction course.
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Last year--last year
in June his holiness,
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Mirza Masood Ahmed
the fifth successor
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of our founder of the
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community,
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Mirza Masood he
visited Capitol Hill and--
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Yeah, I read the
report. You read the report.
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He made, it's a
very good context.
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Yes, he said very
good things for peace.
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And of course, we would
hope that all religious leaders
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could be so moved
the Dalai Lama is often
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quoted as he does
go around and speaking
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well for peace.
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I think all people of
good faith or not all people,
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many people of good
faith or able to see
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that the will is on
self destructive course.
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And cynics, I'm
sure you've heard,
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say that religion
is part of the problem
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that but we people that
I'm at the highest spirituality
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of the law we can see
that it could be part of the--
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well, not just part it
might be the only solution.
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Oh yeah, that what I want to say
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that religion is the
only solution this time.
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Yes.
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For the--to bring
the peace in the world.
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They are missed understood
the religion when they say
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that is the problem.
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No, religion did
not bring any problem,
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it is the understanding
of the people brought
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and it is not the religion.
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So they have to get to
know the real knowledge,
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correct
knowledge of the religion
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What I said, once at the
Religious Liberty Conference
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to shock people
but I believe it.
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I got up and I said
there is way too much religion
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in this world.
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Way too much religion
but not enough spirituality.
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Because religion
in a structural sense
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and the some people will
fight to jihad and other people
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will bomb an abortion clinic.
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That is a very
destructive application
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of religious identity.
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The true religion doesn't
lead to that sort of thing.
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You know, sometime
people don't understand
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what is the meaning
of true spirituality.
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In Ahmadiyya point of
view, there are two terminology
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are used one is
spirituality, one is morality.
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Spirituality means you have
strong relationship with God.
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When you have
strong relation with God
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where is the violence then?
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Yeah. The God
teaches the violence then?
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No. Then that's all.
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So when spiritually
you're closer to God
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then you cannot
commit the crime,
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you cannot commit
the violence at all.
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And morality mean,
that you have good relation
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with human
being, you respect them.
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In both terminology
there is no violence at all.
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Absolutely, and it's a
great tragedy of old time
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but particularly the modern age,
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the religion is so much
associated with violence
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and conflict and it's
really a contradiction.
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It's not--it's not
connected to its real
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value and gold and
true expression, isn't it?
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You know, the
people become more worldly
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then the godly.
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It's a good quote
because that's all I could
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almost think of some
Bible quotes would parallel.
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It--if they become
more worldly then the godly.
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Jesus says,
something about the people
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of this world are
wise in their own ways.
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Yeah, so in my own
opinion as I read the Quran
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or the Bible or the
history of the prophets
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and the Prophet of Islam,
I don't see any where at all,
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violence.
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Only the people
for their own interest
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they create the violence.
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Then they are not closer to God,
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then they don't consider
the interest of the human being,
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interest of the people.
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Then such a things are
happening and taking place
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in the world.
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Very good, very good statement.
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We're getting close to
the end of this the last
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and I don't know which
order our shows will be shown
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but this is the
last of our discussions
00:10:02.38\00:10:05.12
and it's been a pleasure
to talk to you about these,
00:10:05.15\00:10:08.45
these issues and I think
we'll do it again sometime.
00:10:08.48\00:10:12.32
But you know, how
would you sum up the need
00:10:12.35\00:10:15.31
today in the United States.
00:10:15.34\00:10:16.74
Well, let's we
put it in another way.
00:10:16.77\00:10:18.27
Your community is quite numerous
00:10:18.30\00:10:20.99
in the United States,
are you finding success
00:10:21.02\00:10:24.72
in rising above
all of the prejudices
00:10:24.75\00:10:27.80
and the panic of now post 9/11,
00:10:27.83\00:10:31.06
are you able to
practice your faith
00:10:31.09\00:10:35.66
clearly and without obstruction.
00:10:35.69\00:10:37.75
Of course there is
no doubt at after 9/11
00:10:37.78\00:10:40.36
we will--we were
all subject of the--
00:10:40.39\00:10:43.67
this prejudice and other things
00:10:43.70\00:10:45.54
but we do not mind it.
00:10:45.57\00:10:47.22
Because it was natural
reaction of the people,
00:10:47.25\00:10:49.95
natural reaction
of the people but--
00:10:49.98\00:10:53.12
And really people
look very panicked.
00:10:53.15\00:10:54.74
Yeah.
00:10:54.77\00:10:55.80
They didn't know
what is happening.
00:10:55.83\00:10:56.86
And what we did
that all our area,
00:10:56.89\00:11:00.55
all our missionaries and
the people of the community
00:11:00.58\00:11:04.41
they went all around
to see people to talk
00:11:04.44\00:11:07.17
with them, to remove
their misunderstating,
00:11:07.20\00:11:09.50
misconception,
telling that although it was
00:11:09.53\00:11:11.88
very difficult, it was
very challenging for us to do.
00:11:11.91\00:11:15.32
But we were, we are
successful by the grace
00:11:15.35\00:11:18.01
of God and we are
still doing that one
00:11:18.04\00:11:20.99
and I think that--
00:11:21.02\00:11:22.69
So you believe
that good is come out--
00:11:22.72\00:11:24.81
Of course, of
course it is good is coming
00:11:24.84\00:11:28.32
and it will continue to come.
00:11:28.35\00:11:30.36
Our message will be
to the people this time,
00:11:30.39\00:11:32.87
first of all I want
to thank you, inviting me
00:11:32.90\00:11:34.81
to this program
which is very important
00:11:34.84\00:11:37.09
and which provide the
liberty and the freedom of faith
00:11:37.12\00:11:40.97
to exercise and I
think it is the hallmark
00:11:41.00\00:11:44.23
and theme should be of
our all faith and religion.
00:11:44.26\00:11:47.43
And my point is that
let us maintain respect
00:11:47.46\00:11:52.00
of others.
00:11:52.03\00:11:53.90
Let us come closer
to each other so that
00:11:53.93\00:11:56.40
we should understand each other.
00:11:56.43\00:11:58.57
Let us we should
not to remain and living
00:11:58.60\00:12:01.20
ignorance so that we
don't know our neighbor,
00:12:01.23\00:12:04.36
we don't know the
faith of other people
00:12:04.39\00:12:05.85
what they're doing.
00:12:05.88\00:12:07.23
I think may God bless you all
00:12:07.26\00:12:09.61
and love for all hated for none.
00:12:09.64\00:12:15.16
On one occasion some
of the disciples of Jesus
00:12:15.19\00:12:17.85
offended at the local
reaction said to the Lord,
00:12:17.88\00:12:21.68
you know, shouldn't we
bring the fire of God down
00:12:21.71\00:12:23.92
from heaven and
destroy these people.
00:12:23.95\00:12:26.12
Jesus said, no.
00:12:26.15\00:12:28.21
And I think the
replies same today.
00:12:28.24\00:12:30.19
Nobody whether they're
Christian certainly Muslim
00:12:30.22\00:12:33.40
or any body of faith is
justify in bringing down
00:12:33.43\00:12:37.48
destruction and
calling upon a hate reaction
00:12:37.51\00:12:40.58
for spiritual situation.
00:12:40.61\00:12:45.22
Our world has too
much violence today,
00:12:45.25\00:12:47.94
we need dialogue
between religions.
00:12:47.97\00:12:50.52
We need understanding.
00:12:50.55\00:12:52.81
We certainly don't need
to syncretistic response
00:12:52.84\00:12:55.36
but we need people of
faith to realize that violence,
00:12:55.39\00:12:58.60
corrosion is
inimical to true faith
00:12:58.63\00:13:02.23
and certainly antagonistic
to any sort of the concept
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of religious
liberty for all people.
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For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
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