Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000220A
|
00:22 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:24 This is a program that brings you discussion, 00:26 news, views, and information 00:28 and really some insides on religious liberty 00:31 that you might not get elsewhere. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:37 And on the program with me my guest is Imam Shamshad- 00:42 Shamshad from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. 00:44 I'm glad you help me with the pronunciation. 00:46 And that's your first name? 00:48 Yeah. 00:50 But I keep thinking of your last name. 00:51 Last name Imam Shamshad Nasir. 00:53 Nasir. 00:55 It's a pleasure again to have you on this program. 00:57 Thank you so much. 00:58 And already we've had some good discussions 01:00 about Islam and clarifying the Ahmadiyya view point. 01:05 Point of view, yeah. 01:06 But we can talk I think on a lot of larger issues. 01:09 And for this program I want to talk 01:11 about a larger context. 01:14 Its become trendy I think in fact necessary trend in 01:17 the world for a lot of dialog that take place 01:20 between some between countries but a lot 01:23 between religious and philosophical view points. 01:26 And one thing that stuck in my mind was a group 01:29 that meets every year not sure where they make 01:32 but last time I noticed that was in Cape Town 01:34 the Parliament of the World's Religions. 01:36 You've heard that that group? 01:39 And I've got the impression from them 01:41 that they think they can bring everybody together 01:43 and sort of put all the religions in a tumbler 01:47 and shake it up and then we'll get some sort of grand 01:50 common religious view point. 01:53 What do you think about that? 01:54 Is that a good approach? 01:55 It is a good approach that people should come 01:57 to table dialog- 01:59 Yes, we need to talk. Understand each other. 02:01 This is very important and it should be done. 02:03 It should be done. 02:06 But doing like that it is not-people will be losing 02:09 their identity. 02:11 And nobody want to lose their identity 02:12 whether he is wrong or right. 02:14 Not most people though. Yeah. 02:17 That and I think we've passed the moment 02:20 but in the Christian world for a long time 02:22 the World Council of Churches to name one they tended 02:26 to be working toward sort of 02:28 a generic form or religious expression. 02:32 But I think in the modern world its working 02:34 the other way around, isn't? 02:36 The distinctive are popping up. 02:38 Yes, everybody want his identity that is the more 02:41 important thing. 02:42 Even small baby want to be acknowledge, 02:45 want to be recognized. 02:47 How all the faith you do like that it is only 02:50 will be done not only done in an that fashion of manner 02:53 when that divine personality come. 02:55 He will unite the whole nation, a whole world. 02:58 That is his job not the United Nation job. 03:01 Well, I can't resist that it might not prove 03:04 your point but I remember there was a child's cartoon 03:08 called Antz. 03:10 Did you ever see that? 03:11 No. Crazy cartoon. 03:14 Was with Woody Allen as the voice of this 03:17 character and the movie started he was lying in 03:20 the psychiatrist couch and he saying-he says I feel 03:25 so insignificant, doctor. 03:27 He says you know, I was I'm the middle child 03:30 of a thousand children, you know, he is an ant. 03:33 And he says I feel insignificant, I feel like 03:35 I don't matter. 03:36 And at the end of the session the doctor says 03:39 we made great progress. 03:41 He says you are insignificant. 03:45 Well, you know, an individual in the modern world 03:48 can feel that, can't they. Yeah, of course. 03:49 But the glory of religious expression and identity 03:54 is that you know that you are-as the Bible says 03:56 and the Quran I think says the same thing 03:58 that in the eyes of God we're a special creation. 04:00 Of course. We're uniquely His. 04:02 Yes. 04:03 And we shouldn't give that away just 04:05 to so that someone will find out belief more acceptable. 04:10 Religious dialogs are very important. 04:12 It is very important religious leader should 04:15 come together on the table 04:17 and try to understand each faith. 04:20 Because here before 9/11 people do not know even 04:23 the Christian do not know their other friends 04:26 Christians what they believe. 04:27 Yeah. Absolutely. 04:28 You know, I was after- when 9/11 happened 04:31 I was in Maryland that time on that big mosque 04:34 Masjid Baiturrahman and there what I thought 04:37 that let me call all the religious leader 04:39 in our mosque and they came. 04:42 And in front they did not know each other. 04:46 So I think 9/11, after 9/11 the good thing 04:49 what happened is that our community most importantly 04:56 thought that we should go outside and talk 04:59 with-although we were doing before but people 05:01 were not paying any attention towards 05:03 what we are talking. 05:04 After 9/11 they became alert 05:07 and they try to invite us, they try to come to our mosque 05:12 and we have dialog with them. 05:14 And in fact from 1886 we are taking part in 05:21 religious founder day. 05:23 And that means that once in a year 05:25 in our community allover the world 05:28 we held one meeting where we invite the religious leader 05:31 of different faith with their congregation. 05:33 And we give them one topic. 05:35 That talk yourself on one topic from their book, 05:38 from your own book so that people who are sitting 05:41 all around from different faith they understand 05:44 what do you believe. 05:45 Yeah, good points but you've also reminded me 05:47 something that I believe is true and you can affirm 05:51 this or deny. 05:54 The Ahmadiyya community 05:56 you have a headquarters in London. 05:59 Yeah. 06:00 And you have worldwide network but I don't think 06:03 Islam generally is closely structured, is it? 06:07 Yes, Islam says central point also, 06:11 central government, central people, 06:14 and it will be Khilafat successorship. 06:17 And let me clear this point 06:19 why our headquarter is in London. 06:22 No, okay, yes. 06:23 Yeah, because this is important because movement 06:25 started from India, Qadian how the headquarter became 06:28 in London today. 06:30 You see from 1947 our headquarter shifted 06:34 from Qadian to Rabwah, Pakistan 06:37 and our successor which we called Khalifa 06:42 he was staying in Rabwah, Pakistan. 06:47 And after 1974 when we were declared 06:51 non-Muslim minority and 1984 declaration 06:55 ordinance 2020 they did not permit us 06:58 to show directly or indirectly that we are Muslim. 07:01 Our Khalifa could not stay there to perform. 07:03 It makes sense. 07:06 Right, so this is the reason that we are in. 07:08 And after that in four our four religious leaders 07:12 time successor fourth succerssorship of 07:15 the Promised Messiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmed 07:17 peace be on him. 07:18 He stared MT, a Muslim Television Ahmadiyya 07:21 allover the world 24 hours from there we have Friday 07:24 sermons live every Friday, other meetings, 07:27 other teachings and our convention 07:32 are telecast live from there. 07:35 But yes, you have a fairly intact global network. 07:38 Yeah. 07:39 But in the general Islamic worlds- 07:41 This time they don't have any secular leadership. 07:44 And there is not maybe in given country like 07:45 in Iran the Holy City of Qum there is a lot of theologians 07:49 and of course they have political power there 07:51 and in Saudi Arabia but by in large it seems to me 07:56 in Islam its enough that somebody as a student 08:00 of Islam gets people around them 08:01 who listen to them and then eventually 08:04 they can become a local leader. 08:06 Yeah. 08:08 They are not getting authority from an organization 08:09 so it's all structured. Yeah, you are right. 08:10 Yeah, this we say that this will be by 08:12 the divine personality. 08:14 If probably Messiah has come and certainly 08:16 he has come through that we have adopted that 08:20 central leadership. 08:21 And other Muslim believe that that we need 08:24 that today but unfortunate they cannot. 08:26 Even a whole of the Muslim world cannot be united 08:28 on one point. 08:30 How the leadership will be? 08:31 Everybody want to be a leader. 08:33 And a lot of people imagine fix the they think 08:36 if it is like negotiations between heads of state 08:39 that you can meet with some single person 08:41 or some group and negotiate an arrangement 08:45 and then suddenly it applies everywhere. 08:47 I don't believe that's possible with Islam. 08:48 No, no. 08:50 And it should not be possible with Christianity 08:52 because I think it would diminish individual 08:56 convictions but some people try to do it. 08:58 They have their own agenda not the religious agenda. 09:01 Absolutely. Yeah, religious agenda- 09:03 A political adjustment of religious view point. 09:05 The religious agenda are unification or all people 09:11 will be united it will be by under the divine shelter 09:15 not the government shelter. 09:17 Yeah, so this is the reason I am bringing this point 09:19 over and over that this is not the work 09:22 and job of any government or United Nation to bring 09:26 all human being on under one shelter they cannot do. 09:31 It is the God and divine personality who will come 09:35 from God who will divine and our believe is 09:37 that he has come and people have to follow that. 09:40 And we do need that one. 09:41 You know, several times on this program we've talked 09:45 about that as Seventh-day Adventist church 09:47 our religious liberty department we have 09:49 sit down session regularly I know with 09:52 some Roman Catholics with Lutherans, with- 10:01 Presbyterian. 10:02 Yeah, with several and we talk about doctrine 10:05 but the aim of it is not to come together. 10:08 It's to clarify so that we have 10:10 an understanding of how to deal with that. 10:12 To know each other. 10:13 A statement that I know I said on this program 10:16 before you probably said, it takes my fancy 10:20 is Mark Twain a famous American author. 10:24 He made a comment at the time of Spanish-American War. 10:28 He said that foreign wars are God's way of teaching 10:32 Americans geography. 10:34 And one good thing I think that's come out of 9/11 10:40 certainly relation to Islam but other religions 10:42 people are thinking- they want to discover 10:45 what do these religious view points mean. 10:47 They have been led to ask questions 10:50 that they didn't ask before. 10:51 I think after 9/11 it led us give more detailed 10:55 of Islamic teaching and people are ready to listen 10:58 and they when they are invited they join us 11:00 now but before 9/11 they were not paying an attention at all. 11:04 This time if we invite in our mosque they come. 11:08 And I will say that we have clarified many points 11:11 especially about jihad, status of woman, 11:14 these kind of things which is our- 11:15 bubbling in the mind of people and we are by the grace of god 11:19 many misconception about the life and teaching 11:23 of Prophet Muhammad we have remove their misunderstanding. 11:27 Yeah, now I mean, obviously it's not my role 11:29 on this program. 11:31 I was certainly as a Seventh-day Adventist. 11:32 I mean-you understand I don't want people 11:37 to join your group just because I talk about it. 11:41 Of course. 11:42 But that is the risk of an open-not the risk 11:45 in fact it's the payoff from an open discussion 11:49 because I could say the same thing. 11:51 When we talk about religion freely 11:53 people have discovered my faith that wouldn't have 11:56 otherwise in many of more would join. 11:58 And its one thing 9/11 was a horrible disaster 12:01 for the whole world not just the US. 12:02 Of course, of course. 12:04 But some of these disasters that bring 12:06 religion to the view point some of the people 12:10 of faith get nervous about it and think they are 12:12 under attack when from a very early stage 12:15 of Christianity that sort of things grew the church. 12:19 You know, in the Book of Acts in the New Testament 12:21 it says and the church grew quickly 12:23 the time of persecution. 12:25 I think whenever people are challenged 12:27 to understand-to look at something 12:31 they will be spiritual growth. 12:33 It is happening, it is happening- 12:35 There is plus for this. It is happening with us. 12:37 In Pakistan we are persecuting, more 12:39 people are joining there. 12:41 In Africa people are joining there. 12:43 In America people are joining. 12:44 And all over the world when the people know why this 12:48 community is persecuted? 12:49 What is the reason? 12:50 The attentions comes and they start reading and 12:52 they want to ask the question. 12:53 You know, our many articles are publish in 12:58 other newspapers and they call us and to know more 13:01 about that. 13:03 It's wonderful. 13:04 Yeah. 13:06 We'll be back after a break and we need to talk 13:07 more about current events and dialog, how they 13:09 working together to really inform people more than 13:11 ever before. |
Revised 2014-12-17