Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is a program
that brings you discussion,
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news, views, and information
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and really some
insides on religious liberty
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that you might
not get elsewhere.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And on the program with
me my guest is Imam Shamshad-
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Shamshad from the
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
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I'm glad you help me
with the pronunciation.
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And that's your first name?
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Yeah.
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But I keep
thinking of your last name.
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Last name Imam Shamshad Nasir.
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Nasir.
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It's a pleasure again to
have you on this program.
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Thank you so much.
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And already we've
had some good discussions
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about Islam and clarifying
the Ahmadiyya view point.
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Point of view, yeah.
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But we can talk I think
on a lot of larger issues.
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And for this
program I want to talk
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about a larger context.
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Its become trendy I think
in fact necessary trend in
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the world for a lot
of dialog that take place
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between some
between countries but a lot
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between religious and
philosophical view points.
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And one thing that
stuck in my mind was a group
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that meets every year
not sure where they make
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but last time I
noticed that was in Cape Town
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the Parliament of
the World's Religions.
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You've heard that that group?
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And I've got the
impression from them
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that they think they
can bring everybody together
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and sort of put all
the religions in a tumbler
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and shake it up and then
we'll get some sort of grand
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common religious view point.
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What do you think about that?
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Is that a good approach?
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It is a good approach
that people should come
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to table dialog-
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Yes, we need to talk.
Understand each other.
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This is very
important and it should be done.
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It should be done.
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But doing like that it
is not-people will be losing
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their identity.
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And nobody want to
lose their identity
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whether he is wrong or right.
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Not most people though. Yeah.
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That and I think
we've passed the moment
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but in the Christian
world for a long time
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the World Council of
Churches to name one they tended
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to be working toward sort of
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a generic form or
religious expression.
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But I think in the
modern world its working
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the other way around, isn't?
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The distinctive are popping up.
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Yes, everybody want his
identity that is the more
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important thing.
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Even small baby
want to be acknowledge,
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want to be recognized.
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How all the faith you
do like that it is only
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will be done not only done
in an that fashion of manner
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when that divine
personality come.
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He will unite the
whole nation, a whole world.
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That is his job not
the United Nation job.
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Well, I can't resist
that it might not prove
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your point but I remember
there was a child's cartoon
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called Antz.
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Did you ever see that?
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No. Crazy cartoon.
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Was with Woody
Allen as the voice of this
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character and the
movie started he was lying in
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the psychiatrist couch
and he saying-he says I feel
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so insignificant, doctor.
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He says you know, I
was I'm the middle child
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of a thousand children,
you know, he is an ant.
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And he says I feel
insignificant, I feel like
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I don't matter.
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And at the end of the
session the doctor says
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we made great progress.
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He says you are insignificant.
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Well, you know, an
individual in the modern world
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can feel that, can't
they. Yeah, of course.
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But the glory of religious
expression and identity
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is that you know that
you are-as the Bible says
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and the Quran I
think says the same thing
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that in the eyes of God
we're a special creation.
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Of course. We're uniquely His.
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Yes.
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And we shouldn't
give that away just
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to so that someone will
find out belief more acceptable.
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Religious dialogs
are very important.
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It is very important
religious leader should
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come together on the table
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and try to
understand each faith.
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Because here before
9/11 people do not know even
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the Christian do not
know their other friends
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Christians what they believe.
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Yeah. Absolutely.
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You know, I was
after- when 9/11 happened
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I was in Maryland that
time on that big mosque
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Masjid Baiturrahman
and there what I thought
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that let me call
all the religious leader
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in our mosque and they came.
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And in front they
did not know each other.
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So I think 9/11,
after 9/11 the good thing
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what happened is that our
community most importantly
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thought that we
should go outside and talk
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with-although we were
doing before but people
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were not paying
any attention towards
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what we are talking.
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After 9/11 they became alert
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and they try to invite us,
they try to come to our mosque
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and we have dialog with them.
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And in fact from
1886 we are taking part in
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religious founder day.
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And that means
that once in a year
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in our community
allover the world
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we held one meeting where
we invite the religious leader
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of different faith
with their congregation.
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And we give them one topic.
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That talk yourself on
one topic from their book,
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from your own book so
that people who are sitting
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all around from
different faith they understand
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what do you believe.
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Yeah, good points but
you've also reminded me
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something that I believe
is true and you can affirm
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this or deny.
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The Ahmadiyya community
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you have a
headquarters in London.
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Yeah.
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And you have worldwide
network but I don't think
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Islam generally is
closely structured, is it?
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Yes, Islam says
central point also,
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central
government, central people,
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and it will be
Khilafat successorship.
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And let me clear this point
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why our
headquarter is in London.
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No, okay, yes.
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Yeah, because this is
important because movement
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started from India, Qadian
how the headquarter became
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in London today.
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You see from 1947
our headquarter shifted
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from Qadian to Rabwah, Pakistan
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and our successor
which we called Khalifa
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he was staying
in Rabwah, Pakistan.
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And after 1974
when we were declared
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non-Muslim minority
and 1984 declaration
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ordinance 2020
they did not permit us
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to show directly or
indirectly that we are Muslim.
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Our Khalifa could not
stay there to perform.
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It makes sense.
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Right, so this is the
reason that we are in.
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And after that in four
our four religious leaders
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time successor
fourth succerssorship of
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the Promised
Messiah Mirza Ghulam Ahmed
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peace be on him.
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He stared MT, a
Muslim Television Ahmadiyya
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allover the world 24
hours from there we have Friday
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sermons live every
Friday, other meetings,
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other teachings
and our convention
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are telecast live from there.
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But yes, you have a
fairly intact global network.
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Yeah.
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But in the
general Islamic worlds-
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This time they don't
have any secular leadership.
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And there is not
maybe in given country like
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in Iran the Holy City of Qum
there is a lot of theologians
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and of course they
have political power there
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and in Saudi Arabia but
by in large it seems to me
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in Islam its enough
that somebody as a student
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of Islam gets people around them
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who listen to them
and then eventually
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they can become a local leader.
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Yeah.
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They are not getting
authority from an organization
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so it's all
structured. Yeah, you are right.
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Yeah, this we say
that this will be by
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the divine personality.
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If probably Messiah
has come and certainly
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he has come through
that we have adopted that
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central leadership.
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And other Muslim
believe that that we need
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that today but
unfortunate they cannot.
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Even a whole of the
Muslim world cannot be united
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on one point.
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How the leadership will be?
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Everybody want to be a leader.
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And a lot of people
imagine fix the they think
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if it is like negotiations
between heads of state
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that you can meet
with some single person
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or some group and
negotiate an arrangement
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and then suddenly
it applies everywhere.
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I don't believe
that's possible with Islam.
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No, no.
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And it should not be
possible with Christianity
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because I think it
would diminish individual
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convictions but
some people try to do it.
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They have their own
agenda not the religious agenda.
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Absolutely.
Yeah, religious agenda-
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A political adjustment
of religious view point.
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The religious agenda are
unification or all people
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will be united it will be
by under the divine shelter
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not the government shelter.
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Yeah, so this is the
reason I am bringing this point
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over and over that
this is not the work
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and job of any government
or United Nation to bring
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all human being on under
one shelter they cannot do.
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It is the God and divine
personality who will come
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from God who will
divine and our believe is
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that he has come and
people have to follow that.
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And we do need that one.
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You know, several times
on this program we've talked
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about that as
Seventh-day Adventist church
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our religious
liberty department we have
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sit down session
regularly I know with
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some Roman Catholics
with Lutherans, with-
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Presbyterian.
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Yeah, with several
and we talk about doctrine
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but the aim of it is
not to come together.
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It's to clarify so that we have
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an understanding of
how to deal with that.
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To know each other.
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A statement that I
know I said on this program
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before you probably
said, it takes my fancy
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is Mark Twain a
famous American author.
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He made a comment at the
time of Spanish-American War.
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He said that foreign
wars are God's way of teaching
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Americans geography.
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And one good thing I
think that's come out of 9/11
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certainly relation to
Islam but other religions
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people are thinking-
they want to discover
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what do these
religious view points mean.
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They have been
led to ask questions
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that they didn't ask before.
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I think after 9/11 it
led us give more detailed
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of Islamic teaching and
people are ready to listen
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and they when they
are invited they join us
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now but before 9/11 they were
not paying an attention at all.
00:11:00.71\00:11:04.76
This time if we invite
in our mosque they come.
00:11:04.79\00:11:08.14
And I will say that we
have clarified many points
00:11:08.17\00:11:11.92
especially about
jihad, status of woman,
00:11:11.95\00:11:14.38
these kind of
things which is our-
00:11:14.41\00:11:15.92
bubbling in the mind of people
and we are by the grace of god
00:11:15.95\00:11:19.95
many misconception
about the life and teaching
00:11:19.98\00:11:23.81
of Prophet Muhammad we have
remove their misunderstanding.
00:11:23.84\00:11:26.98
Yeah, now I mean,
obviously it's not my role
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on this program.
00:11:29.81\00:11:31.18
I was certainly as a
Seventh-day Adventist.
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I mean-you
understand I don't want people
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to join your group just
because I talk about it.
00:11:37.29\00:11:41.20
Of course.
00:11:41.23\00:11:42.60
But that is the risk
of an open-not the risk
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in fact it's the
payoff from an open discussion
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because I could
say the same thing.
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When we talk
about religion freely
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people have discovered
my faith that wouldn't have
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otherwise in many
of more would join.
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And its one thing 9/11
was a horrible disaster
00:11:58.49\00:12:01.44
for the whole
world not just the US.
00:12:01.47\00:12:02.95
Of course, of course.
00:12:02.98\00:12:04.79
But some of these
disasters that bring
00:12:04.82\00:12:06.39
religion to the view
point some of the people
00:12:06.42\00:12:10.56
of faith get nervous
about it and think they are
00:12:10.59\00:12:12.91
under attack when
from a very early stage
00:12:12.94\00:12:15.44
of Christianity that sort
of things grew the church.
00:12:15.47\00:12:19.71
You know, in the Book of
Acts in the New Testament
00:12:19.74\00:12:21.52
it says and the
church grew quickly
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the time of persecution.
00:12:23.03\00:12:24.99
I think whenever
people are challenged
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to understand-to
look at something
00:12:27.34\00:12:31.54
they will be spiritual growth.
00:12:31.57\00:12:33.29
It is
happening, it is happening-
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There is plus for this.
It is happening with us.
00:12:35.10\00:12:37.60
In Pakistan we
are persecuting, more
00:12:37.63\00:12:39.87
people are joining there.
00:12:39.90\00:12:41.60
In Africa people
are joining there.
00:12:41.64\00:12:43.29
In America people are joining.
00:12:43.32\00:12:44.76
And all over the world
when the people know why this
00:12:44.79\00:12:48.12
community is persecuted?
00:12:48.15\00:12:49.52
What is the reason?
00:12:49.55\00:12:50.92
The attentions comes
and they start reading and
00:12:50.95\00:12:52.53
they want to ask the question.
00:12:52.56\00:12:53.93
You know, our many
articles are publish in
00:12:53.96\00:12:58.53
other newspapers and
they call us and to know more
00:12:58.56\00:13:01.92
about that.
00:13:01.96\00:13:03.33
It's wonderful.
00:13:03.36\00:13:04.73
Yeah.
00:13:04.76\00:13:06.13
We'll be back after a
break and we need to talk
00:13:06.16\00:13:07.53
more about current
events and dialog, how they
00:13:07.56\00:13:09.27
working together to
really inform people more than
00:13:09.31\00:13:11.47
ever before.
00:13:11.51\00:13:12.88