Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000219B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:09 If you remember on the program 00:10 we were talking about a lot of interesting things 00:13 and then ended with an introduction 00:15 of the role of women in Islam 00:17 and your provocative statement 00:18 I think shared a high regard 00:21 that Islam has for the power of women. Yeah. 00:26 You know, the reason is that many times 00:32 I and we Muslim hear objection raised by western people. 00:38 It is all together ignorance I will say that they do not know 00:43 what is the real status of women in Islam is. 00:46 So I again thankful to you 00:48 that you brought this important issue 00:50 or topic that what they say 00:55 that you don't treat them equally. 00:59 The equal statement 01:02 is very negative manner they present before us. 01:07 In fact, as God has created men and women 01:12 two separate identity but they are one as a soul. 01:17 And then let me go to my statement 01:20 which is said earlier that they are source of paradise. 01:23 Let me tell you that one first then I will go from-- 01:26 Why not, in spite that of that paradise and women. 01:28 Right. Right. 01:30 You know, the Prophet of Islam peace be on him says, 01:33 that paradise lies under the feet of your mother. 01:38 It means women should be righteous 01:40 which will create paradise for children. 01:43 And children should be obedience 01:45 to obtain that paradise through the complete service, 01:49 unconditional service to the mother. 01:53 So this is one role which women play 01:56 in the religion of Islam that she is mother. 01:58 So the Prophet of Islam says 02:00 that she is the source of paradise for you. 02:04 So because she gave you birth, 02:06 she nurtures you then she brought you up, 02:10 now you are old enough then you have to respect. 02:13 In the Holy Quran it is also mentioned 02:15 that you should pray for both of them. 02:18 And when they attain old age 02:20 you cannot say any harsh word to them at all. 02:24 And obviously this is a very biblical approach too. Okay. 02:27 And it agrees with that. Okay, number one. 02:29 Number two, we have sisters at home 02:32 and we have daughters at home. 02:34 The Prophet of Islam again said, 02:36 if you have daughters and sister 02:38 and you bring them up in a very nice manner, 02:40 treat them in a very good manner 02:44 and you don't pray for your son 02:46 and sons over them then you have paradise. 02:51 For daughters and sisters. 02:54 Now this is another status of woman 02:57 in Islam and with everyone. 02:59 The third stage, she is wife. 03:02 As a wife Quran says, 03:05 that treat your woman in a best manner. 03:07 Then Prophet of Islam mentioned that, 03:10 you--among you the best person is the one 03:14 who treat his family in a better manner. 03:19 The best among you is the one who treat with his family, 03:22 his wife in a better manner. 03:23 I agree these are wonderful ideals. Okay. 03:26 And I agree with-- Yes, let us come to the point now. 03:28 Well, they agree with the Bible in common sense. Yeah, okay. 03:31 Of course there are couple of problematic passages 03:34 in the Quran where Muhammad seems to be 03:38 encouraging men to discipline their wives. 03:42 And I don't know what to make of that to be honest. 03:45 If you see the Bible what Bible says? 03:47 You are talking in America according to the rules, 03:50 according to constitution of America. 03:52 We are talking about faith and religion. 03:54 You know, sometimes-- Well, what I think 03:56 you are heading toward 03:58 is the values that you just spoke about 04:04 that you also found in the Bible there they are valid 04:07 but the way they are expressed 04:09 as in a cultural context and one thing 04:12 that you and I spoke about last night 04:14 the idea that in the Quran it talks about as many as-- 04:17 how many wives, four wives? 04:18 Yeah, four wives we can have. You know, in the Old Testament-- 04:20 It is not order but it is just your view. 04:23 In the Old Testament there are plenty of examples 04:25 of the patriots with multiple wives 04:28 and that was a model for-- 04:29 And there was no limitation on that. Right. 04:31 I think that's a model of another age 04:33 when they were practical sociological reasons 04:36 that women needed protection 04:37 and they were not as many men 04:39 to go around for sometimes for different reasons. 04:43 But that's not really a moral absolute. 04:45 But we sometimes confuse those things 04:47 at least in the Christian west with a deep theological truth. 04:52 I think they are cultural-- You see what confusing is, 04:54 confusing is that when we come together with the religion 04:59 and the constitution of the country 05:01 these two things are very separate. Right. 05:03 You see when you believe in Bible 05:04 then believe as Bible say. 05:06 When I believe in Quran I should believe as Quran say. 05:09 Then we shouldn't bring constitution of America, 05:12 constitution of Pakistan, or constitution of Saudi Arabia, 05:15 or European country with that. 05:17 So believe as you say-- I am religious person 05:20 then follow what the religion says. 05:22 Right, but I think Islam in the United States 05:28 by necessity has adopted in this regard 05:31 an agreement with the laws of the land 05:32 that says you have one wife. That's fine. 05:35 Just like and we see with 05:38 some fundamentalist church of Latter-day Saints, 05:43 they still are clinging to multiple wives 05:45 and it's against the law. They have a conflict. 05:47 And so this is their problem, not our problem. 05:49 Oh, I know but I am making a parallel 05:51 'cause it's not unique but people that don't understand 05:54 the difference between the sociological norm 05:57 and an absolute total spiritual truth. 06:00 It's not a mandate to have so many wives. 06:02 There were practical reasons why it made sense. 06:04 Islam says two things. 06:06 Number one, that if you have more than one 06:09 you do the justice between all of them in the same manner. 06:12 If you cannot then don't do it. 06:14 This is number one thing. 06:15 Yeah, that is number one priority. 06:18 And number two, we should not compare 06:20 the religion with the customs and traditions 06:24 or the constitution of the country. 06:26 But as a Ahmadiyya Muslim members, 06:29 as a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 06:31 I and other all members 06:33 are bound to obey the law of the land. 06:37 And thank you, for stating that again. 06:39 I've said that many times on this program 06:41 we have strong religious principles. 06:43 I think you and I would agree 06:45 that our point of reference is to God 06:48 but that should make us good citizens in any just state. 06:54 We obey the laws, absolutely we're law abiding 07:00 until the state asks you to do 07:02 something different then God asks you. 07:05 But a good state won't do that, will it? Yeah. No. 07:08 So there is a little bit of a tension 07:10 but automatically we should be 07:12 a law abiding I'm sure of that. 07:14 You know, if you go only fundamental basic things 07:18 of each religion it teaches 07:21 that teaches morality, spirituality, 07:24 worship to God, and service to humanity. 07:26 That is basic and fundamental teaching of each religion. 07:30 And in this regard equality of the women 07:33 when it comes and we say yes as a human being they are equal. 07:37 For instance we worship God, they also worship God. 07:40 We fast, they also fast, and we offered the Zakat 07:45 and whatever fundamental basic teaching of the Quran 07:48 we follow, they are also bound to follow that one too. 07:51 But their different duty and men has different duty. 07:55 There is no equality. 07:57 For instance only woman will give birth, 08:00 you cannot give the birth. Not yet. 08:03 Yeah, that's what I am saying. Some people are working on that. 08:06 But what I am saying is 08:07 that God did not created man for that purpose. 08:10 I think anyone that that says with the same 08:13 is not lived in the real world. Right. 08:16 Talking more about the role of women though 08:21 most Muslims living in the United States 08:25 I think are adopting to a society 08:29 and the traditional religion 08:31 but when we look say its Saudi Arabia or Yemen, 08:35 pull things out of the hat. 08:37 We see women with the full what is it the abaya? 08:41 Hijab. Veil. 08:43 Yeah, the full veil and all the rest. 08:44 Now is that--that's not really necessarily from the Quran. 08:48 That's more a societal adaptation isn't it 08:51 that's become extremely conservative 08:53 and sometimes repressive for women? 08:55 Yes, this is true that whatever different kind of veil and hijab 09:00 you're seeing in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen 09:04 and some other part of the world 09:06 what is--it is not according to Islamic. 09:09 What Islam says that you cover you body, cover you face. 09:13 Face doesn't not mean you are cover in a manner 09:15 you cannot see anybody. 09:16 How you can really drive the car then? Yeah. 09:18 So this is not, this is your right in that sense. 09:20 You are right. 09:21 But the thing is that there should be separation 09:26 for the male and female. Modesty. 09:28 Modesty is the more important-- It's the requirement of modesty. 09:30 And the dress will make. 09:32 If the dress is like that that all eyes are going to that. 09:36 Like Jesus said, if you eyes commit the-- 09:41 now you complete the sentence instead I complete. 09:44 Well, He says if you look on a person 09:46 with lust you've committed the sin. 09:47 And then the how much it is going on this side. 09:49 It's true. Yeah. 09:51 What is the remedy for that? What is the cure of that? 09:54 Islam present the cure-- 09:55 Unfortunately Hollywood is forgotten something else. 09:58 It used to be enough to just an ankle 10:01 sometimes if you show a very little 10:02 and it's all hidden you mind becomes more out of control-- 10:06 No, no, no, no, no, 10:08 when it is naked your mind goes more, 10:12 when it is hidden just that is fine 10:16 and it will bring you to the point 10:17 that God does not allow for that. 10:20 I'm interested in a comment from an Islamic point of view 10:24 many pagan religions descended into female God worship. 10:30 You know, vestal virgins and all the rest 10:33 and even the early Christian church 10:35 as the Roman Catholic church became 10:38 I think unduly elevated the female, 10:40 you know, Jesus-- Mary the mother of Jesus 10:43 became a sort of worship, an icon of female worship. 10:47 Does Islam see a problem with that? 10:50 Of course, Islam says that you cannot worship 10:54 but one God. Yes. 10:56 But one deities in the Holy Quran. 10:59 Say God is one and worship only to God 11:02 no any other person at all. 11:04 No idols, no anything, no you cannot worship 11:09 and it is against the oneness of God. 11:12 So we are--anyhow we agreed on discussing women. 11:15 Islam culturally in certain countries 11:19 I think is a little bit behind the times 11:22 but the root meaning is respect for women 11:26 and the modern world shouldn't be under threat 11:30 from an Islamic view point. 11:31 Of course, I stand for my point again that 11:35 in Islam the women are sources of paradise 11:38 as a mother, as a sister, as a daughter, as a wife 11:42 and they have to discharge 11:43 their responsibility accordingly. 11:45 They should be pious, religious 11:47 so that they can bring up a generation 11:50 which is also godly and pious 11:52 and loyal to God Almighty. We pray for that. 11:59 Anybody that diminishes the role of women 12:03 in Christian history doesn't really know what happened. 12:07 Jesus its true had 12 apostles and He had another 70 12:12 who may or may not have been men or women. 12:15 But we do know that a great group of women 12:18 supported Jesus and His disciples. 12:21 They fed them, they cared for them 12:23 as they traveled around. 12:24 We do know that Mary and Martha 12:26 were very close friends of Jesus. 12:28 And yet we do know that the culture of that time 12:30 was not always so positive. 12:32 When we look at some of the Islamic countries 12:35 in the Middle East today I believe we're looking less 12:39 at a religious edict than an echo of the culture 12:43 that perhaps existed at the time of the Bible. 12:46 I believe any true faith, 12:48 any faith that has a comprehension 12:51 of a creative God and us as His creatures 12:54 will respect the high dignified role 12:57 of the women as mother, and supporter of the family. 13:01 And we need to keep this understanding in mind 13:04 as we look at religion 13:06 and its attitude toward women and gender equality. 13:11 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17