Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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If you remember on the program
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we were talking about a
lot of interesting things
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and then ended
with an introduction
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of the role of women in Islam
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and your provocative statement
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I think shared a high regard
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that Islam has for
the power of women. Yeah.
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You know, the
reason is that many times
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I and we Muslim hear objection
raised by western people.
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It is all together ignorance
I will say that they do not know
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what is the real
status of women in Islam is.
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So I again thankful to you
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that you brought
this important issue
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or topic that what they say
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that you don't
treat them equally.
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The equal statement
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is very negative
manner they present before us.
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In fact, as God has
created men and women
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two separate identity
but they are one as a soul.
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And then let me
go to my statement
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which is said earlier that
they are source of paradise.
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Let me tell you that one
first then I will go from--
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Why not, in spite that
of that paradise and women.
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Right. Right.
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You know, the Prophet of
Islam peace be on him says,
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that paradise lies
under the feet of your mother.
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It means women
should be righteous
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which will create
paradise for children.
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And children should be obedience
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to obtain that paradise
through the complete service,
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unconditional
service to the mother.
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So this is one
role which women play
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in the religion of
Islam that she is mother.
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So the Prophet of Islam says
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that she is the
source of paradise for you.
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So because she gave you birth,
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she nurtures you
then she brought you up,
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now you are old enough
then you have to respect.
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In the Holy Quran
it is also mentioned
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that you should
pray for both of them.
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And when they attain old age
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you cannot say any
harsh word to them at all.
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And obviously this is a very
biblical approach too. Okay.
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And it agrees with
that. Okay, number one.
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Number two, we
have sisters at home
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and we have daughters at home.
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The Prophet of Islam again said,
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if you have daughters and sister
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and you bring them up
in a very nice manner,
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treat them in a very good manner
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and you don't pray for your son
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and sons over them
then you have paradise.
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For daughters and sisters.
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Now this is
another status of woman
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in Islam and with everyone.
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The third stage, she is wife.
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As a wife Quran says,
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that treat your
woman in a best manner.
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Then Prophet of
Islam mentioned that,
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you--among you the
best person is the one
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who treat his
family in a better manner.
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The best among you is the
one who treat with his family,
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his wife in a better manner.
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I agree these are
wonderful ideals. Okay.
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And I agree with-- Yes,
let us come to the point now.
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Well, they agree with the Bible
in common sense. Yeah, okay.
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Of course there are
couple of problematic passages
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in the Quran where
Muhammad seems to be
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encouraging men to
discipline their wives.
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And I don't know what to
make of that to be honest.
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If you see the
Bible what Bible says?
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You are talking in
America according to the rules,
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according to
constitution of America.
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We are talking
about faith and religion.
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You know,
sometimes-- Well, what I think
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you are heading toward
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is the values that
you just spoke about
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that you also found in
the Bible there they are valid
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but the way they are expressed
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as in a cultural
context and one thing
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that you and I
spoke about last night
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the idea that in the Quran
it talks about as many as--
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how many wives, four wives?
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Yeah, four wives we can have.
You know, in the Old Testament--
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It is not order but
it is just your view.
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In the Old Testament
there are plenty of examples
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of the patriots
with multiple wives
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and that was a model for--
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And there was no
limitation on that. Right.
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I think that's a
model of another age
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when they were
practical sociological reasons
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that women needed protection
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and they were not as many men
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to go around for
sometimes for different reasons.
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But that's not
really a moral absolute.
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But we sometimes
confuse those things
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at least in the Christian west
with a deep theological truth.
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I think they are cultural--
You see what confusing is,
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confusing is that when we
come together with the religion
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and the
constitution of the country
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these two things are
very separate. Right.
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You see when
you believe in Bible
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then believe as Bible say.
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When I believe in Quran I
should believe as Quran say.
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Then we shouldn't bring
constitution of America,
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constitution of Pakistan, or
constitution of Saudi Arabia,
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or European country with that.
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So believe as you
say-- I am religious person
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then follow what
the religion says.
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Right, but I think
Islam in the United States
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by necessity has
adopted in this regard
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an agreement with
the laws of the land
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that says you have
one wife. That's fine.
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Just like and we see with
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some fundamentalist
church of Latter-day Saints,
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they still are
clinging to multiple wives
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and it's against the
law. They have a conflict.
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And so this is their
problem, not our problem.
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Oh, I know but I
am making a parallel
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'cause it's not unique but
people that don't understand
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the difference
between the sociological norm
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and an absolute
total spiritual truth.
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It's not a mandate
to have so many wives.
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There were practical
reasons why it made sense.
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Islam says two things.
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Number one, that if
you have more than one
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you do the justice between
all of them in the same manner.
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If you cannot then don't do it.
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This is number one thing.
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Yeah, that is
number one priority.
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And number two,
we should not compare
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the religion with the
customs and traditions
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or the
constitution of the country.
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But as a
Ahmadiyya Muslim members,
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as a member of the
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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I and other all members
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are bound to obey
the law of the land.
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And thank you, for
stating that again.
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I've said that many
times on this program
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we have strong
religious principles.
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I think you and I would agree
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that our point of
reference is to God
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but that should make us
good citizens in any just state.
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We obey the laws,
absolutely we're law abiding
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until the state asks you to do
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something
different then God asks you.
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But a good state won't
do that, will it? Yeah. No.
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So there is a
little bit of a tension
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but automatically we should be
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a law abiding I'm sure of that.
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You know, if you go
only fundamental basic things
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of each religion it teaches
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that teaches
morality, spirituality,
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worship to God, and
service to humanity.
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That is basic and fundamental
teaching of each religion.
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And in this regard
equality of the women
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when it comes and we say yes
as a human being they are equal.
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For instance we worship
God, they also worship God.
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We fast, they also
fast, and we offered the Zakat
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and whatever fundamental
basic teaching of the Quran
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we follow, they are also
bound to follow that one too.
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But their different duty
and men has different duty.
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There is no equality.
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For instance only
woman will give birth,
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you cannot give
the birth. Not yet.
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Yeah, that's what I am saying.
Some people are working on that.
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But what I am saying is
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that God did not
created man for that purpose.
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I think anyone that
that says with the same
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is not lived in
the real world. Right.
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Talking more about
the role of women though
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most Muslims living
in the United States
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I think are
adopting to a society
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and the traditional religion
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but when we look say
its Saudi Arabia or Yemen,
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pull things out of the hat.
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We see women with the
full what is it the abaya?
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Hijab. Veil.
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Yeah, the full
veil and all the rest.
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Now is that--that's not really
necessarily from the Quran.
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That's more a
societal adaptation isn't it
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that's become
extremely conservative
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and sometimes
repressive for women?
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Yes, this is true that whatever
different kind of veil and hijab
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you're seeing in Afghanistan,
Saudi Arabia, and Yemen
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and some other part of the world
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what is--it is not
according to Islamic.
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What Islam says that you
cover you body, cover you face.
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Face doesn't not mean
you are cover in a manner
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you cannot see anybody.
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How you can really
drive the car then? Yeah.
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So this is not, this is
your right in that sense.
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You are right.
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But the thing is that
there should be separation
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for the male
and female. Modesty.
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Modesty is the more important--
It's the requirement of modesty.
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And the dress will make.
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If the dress is like that
that all eyes are going to that.
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Like Jesus said, if
you eyes commit the--
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now you complete the
sentence instead I complete.
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Well, He says if
you look on a person
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with lust you've
committed the sin.
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And then the how much
it is going on this side.
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It's true. Yeah.
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What is the remedy for
that? What is the cure of that?
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Islam present the cure--
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Unfortunately Hollywood
is forgotten something else.
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It used to be
enough to just an ankle
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sometimes if you
show a very little
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and it's all hidden you mind
becomes more out of control--
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No, no, no, no, no,
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when it is naked
your mind goes more,
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when it is
hidden just that is fine
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and it will
bring you to the point
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that God does
not allow for that.
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I'm interested in a comment
from an Islamic point of view
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many pagan religions descended
into female God worship.
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You know, vestal
virgins and all the rest
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and even the
early Christian church
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as the Roman
Catholic church became
00:10:35.47\00:10:38.11
I think unduly
elevated the female,
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you know, Jesus--
Mary the mother of Jesus
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became a sort of worship,
an icon of female worship.
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Does Islam see a
problem with that?
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Of course, Islam says
that you cannot worship
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but one God. Yes.
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But one deities
in the Holy Quran.
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Say God is one and
worship only to God
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no any other person at all.
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No idols, no
anything, no you cannot worship
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and it is against
the oneness of God.
00:11:09.87\00:11:12.73
So we are--anyhow we
agreed on discussing women.
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Islam culturally
in certain countries
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I think is a little
bit behind the times
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but the root
meaning is respect for women
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and the modern world
shouldn't be under threat
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from an Islamic view point.
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Of course, I stand
for my point again that
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in Islam the women
are sources of paradise
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as a mother, as a
sister, as a daughter, as a wife
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and they have to discharge
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their
responsibility accordingly.
00:11:43.81\00:11:45.76
They should be pious, religious
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so that they can
bring up a generation
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which is also godly and pious
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and loyal to God
Almighty. We pray for that.
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Anybody that
diminishes the role of women
00:11:59.83\00:12:03.32
in Christian history doesn't
really know what happened.
00:12:03.35\00:12:07.49
Jesus its true had 12
apostles and He had another 70
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who may or may not
have been men or women.
00:12:12.10\00:12:15.57
But we do know that
a great group of women
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supported Jesus
and His disciples.
00:12:18.65\00:12:21.58
They fed them,
they cared for them
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as they traveled around.
00:12:23.15\00:12:24.18
We do know that Mary and Martha
00:12:24.21\00:12:26.43
were very close
friends of Jesus.
00:12:26.46\00:12:28.46
And yet we do know that
the culture of that time
00:12:28.49\00:12:30.58
was not always so positive.
00:12:30.61\00:12:32.65
When we look at some
of the Islamic countries
00:12:32.68\00:12:35.58
in the Middle East today
I believe we're looking less
00:12:35.61\00:12:39.15
at a religious edict
than an echo of the culture
00:12:39.18\00:12:43.60
that perhaps existed
at the time of the Bible.
00:12:43.63\00:12:46.60
I believe any true faith,
00:12:46.63\00:12:48.79
any faith that
has a comprehension
00:12:48.82\00:12:51.33
of a creative God
and us as His creatures
00:12:51.36\00:12:54.20
will respect the
high dignified role
00:12:54.23\00:12:57.40
of the women as mother,
and supporter of the family.
00:12:57.43\00:13:01.20
And we need to keep
this understanding in mind
00:13:01.23\00:13:04.26
as we look at religion
00:13:04.29\00:13:06.09
and its attitude toward
women and gender equality.
00:13:06.12\00:13:11.77
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:13:11.80\00:13:15.44