Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000219A
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00:22 Welcome, to the Liberty Insider.
00:25 This is a program bringing you news 00:27 and discussion and information 00:29 and up-to-date facts and figures about 00:31 religious liberty events in the United States 00:34 and around the world. 00:35 My name is Lincoln Steed the Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:39 And my guest on this program 00:41 is Imam Shamshad from Chino California. 00:45 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. 00:46 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community there. 00:49 And you once were leading 00:51 a similar mosque in the-- Maryland. 00:54 Maryland, near the General Conference head quarters 00:57 where I work. Right. 00:58 And I remember you came in and you told me that 01:00 the contact point was you read Liberty Magazine. Right. 01:04 And that just warms my heart today 01:05 that you wanted to talk to me because-- 01:07 Thank you, very much inviting me in our program. And it's been. 01:09 And I am glad to be here. Thank you. 01:11 It's been a pleasure that apart from the program 01:14 to talk about common concern 01:16 for religious freedom for all people 01:18 and then to discuss elements of Christianity and Islam. 01:23 I really appreciate to this your effort 01:25 and we have to raise this more what we're doing right now, 01:30 more than that there should be freedom of faith and religion, 01:34 freedom of conscious, freedom of speech 01:36 and freedom of exercising the faith 01:39 of each and everyone without any discrimination 01:42 of race and color and creed 01:44 and in all over the world 01:45 not only one country but all over the world. 01:48 And once-- as you say that 01:50 that's a wonderful reiteration of the common principles 01:53 that we hold our religious freedom. 01:55 I think one of the biggest threats 01:57 that we need to speak against 02:01 is that even at the Untied Nations level 02:03 there is move Islam is involved with it 02:07 but there's also Christian elements and so on 02:10 who are trying to get sort of international agreements 02:12 that would make it some sort of civil offence 02:15 to offend a person's faith 02:17 by speaking badly about your religion. 02:20 And at first blush people say, yes, that's right. 02:24 Why should some one insult my religion? 02:26 You know you'll be surprised as what you have said right now. 02:30 Quran forbid this thing 02:32 to say any negative against any other faith and religion. 02:36 Quran explains that you should not say any harsh word 02:41 or wrong or abuse even the-- 02:44 to those people who worship idols. 02:47 Well, yes and I think the Bible has similar comments 02:51 that in the civil environment 02:53 where you're dealing with unbelievers 02:55 I don't think that we should be free to punish people 03:00 who speak in ignorance. It is truth. 03:04 So and also I don't know what offends you. 03:08 Sometimes to just say what I-- 03:10 like for example as an Ahmadiyya Muslim 03:13 you know that just for you to speak without any comments 03:17 some of your beliefs even another Muslim 03:19 they might find it offensive they'll see you as the sick. 03:21 Of course, of course. 03:22 So I think to pass an international law 03:26 where there's penalties against insulting another religion 03:30 we don't want insulting religion 03:32 but to just do that lays the groundwork 03:34 for me to stop any discussion. 03:38 The one things which I will, 03:40 I will like to express my feeling 03:43 that personally myself and Ahmadiyya Muslims 03:48 in this country we are very proud. 03:51 We are proud that we're Ahmadiyya Muslim 03:53 and we're living in America 03:55 because America provides freedom of faith, 03:59 freedom of religion, freedom of conscious, 04:02 freedom of exercise the faith. 04:04 While Islam is the champion of all this freedom 04:08 but unfortunately most of the Muslim countries 04:11 they do not allow people 04:13 to exercise their faith in freely. 04:16 The big example is Pakistan 04:19 where Ahmadiyya Muslims are persecuted, 04:21 where Shia persecuted, where Christian are persecuted. 04:24 And falsely blasphemy case 04:28 are registered against them in the police 04:30 and police arrest them and persecute them. 04:33 And some time even people have taken the law 04:36 in their own hand 04:37 and they kill the people in the street. Yeah. 04:39 I can give several example 04:41 what is happen-- I know in Pakistan. 04:42 In Pakistan. Even recent there is a case. 04:43 India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, 04:46 these countries are very doing wrong 04:49 against the teaching of the Quran 04:50 and example of the prophet of Islam. 04:53 You know, you're originally were from Pakistan. Pakistan, yeah. 04:55 In fact a few decades ago and it's always difficult 05:01 to be objective about your own country. 05:03 I know when I talk about Australia I have rosy glasses. 05:07 I think very good things of Australia 05:09 where I am from originally. 05:11 But is there a-- why is Pakistan at the moment 05:15 having such problems within Islam 05:18 and of course relating to Christians within Pakistan. 05:22 Why is there such intolerance? 05:24 What started this do you think? 05:26 I think this is ignorance from the teaching of Quran 05:30 and teaching and example and the tradition 05:32 of the Prophet Mohammed, peace be with him. 05:34 All though they claim those terrorist 05:36 or those extremists, radical 05:39 all though they claim that they're Muslim 05:40 we don't have any problem with that 05:42 but when they say 05:44 they're following the teaching of Quran, 05:46 they're following the teaching of Prophet Mohammed 05:48 that is the problem. 05:49 Because as I have little knowledge of the Quran, 05:52 little knowledge of the holy prophets life 05:54 and his practice and the tradition 05:57 there's no simple one example like that 06:01 with these people are doing today. 06:02 Well, that's true. 06:03 The terrorist and violent people usually 06:07 with the political agenda as well. Of course. 06:10 But there's something more on 06:11 as you say people are being killed in the streets, 06:14 often it's a mob that do something. 06:17 I don't think they're particularly terrorists. 06:19 Why would they--why do we see so much of it in Pakistan 06:23 and it's not only one country 06:24 but there seems to be many recent or in my lifetime 06:29 I think looking back in my lifetime 06:32 I'd say its within the last 30 years that that's happened. 06:34 You see I think there are two reasons. 06:37 Then Ahmadiyya Muslim are killed 06:39 they are killed because of their faith 06:40 because they differ in their faith 06:43 with the rest of the Muslims. 06:45 Then they kill Ahmadiyya Muslims 06:47 that is one of the reasons they say 06:49 because you believe prophet 06:50 after Prophet Mohammed peace be on him. 06:53 Therefore, you're not a Muslim and for Muslim we're going to-- 06:56 for that reason we're going to kill you. 06:58 Number two, the reason they kill us or persecute jihad 07:01 we don't accept the terminology of jihad 07:04 as they accept as they believe. 07:05 We don't. So these are some of the reason they kill. 07:09 What about other innocent people 07:11 because this is a politics then again. 07:13 Why they support the America 07:14 why they support this thing, why? 07:16 Because of all that they are killing that. 07:18 Do you think the politicians 07:20 have stirred up religious animosity 07:23 or do you think some imams for political 07:27 or personal reasons have agitating people? 07:30 I think the politicians also do not have 07:33 any strong base of their knowledge 07:36 in religion, number one. 07:38 Number two, they are in the lap of Mullah, 07:43 these religious scholars. 07:44 And the religious Mullah 07:48 they pressure them to take action against Ahmadiyya 07:51 or against those people 07:53 or thinks like that what is happening. 07:54 So a Mullah is more of a theologian. 07:57 Right. And the imam is the teacher. 07:58 So called--yeah. Or the leader. Yeah. 08:00 So these leader they pressure the government 08:04 and this politicians to persecute either Ahmadis 08:10 or Shia or some of the non Muslim organization 08:15 in the country or minorities. Yeah. 08:18 All though sometime they claim 08:21 the government of Pakistan 08:22 their minister members they claim 08:25 "oh, no we are doing justice with everyone 08:28 and there's no such a persecution going on at all." 08:31 This is exaggeration which is not right. 08:33 They don't give the right statement at all. Yeah. 08:36 People can see what happened 28th of May. 08:37 I think the facts are very planted in certain groups. 08:40 Human Rights Commission reports 08:42 always every year they publish 08:44 and they can see their face over there. Yeah. 08:46 Now our church has a world report 08:49 on religious freedom and problems 08:52 and year after year this has been 08:54 so many incidents in Pakistan and other countries 08:57 but Pakistan is what you talk about. Is number one. 09:00 They're not little things as you say 09:03 a whole group of Ahmadiyya's killed all at once. 09:06 You know that's just not like 09:08 someone speaking badly or losing a job. 09:11 This is extreme violent prejudice. 09:14 And now that there are some journalists too 09:17 and some newspaper are bringing that issue 09:21 in today's Dawn was also that news 09:24 that the Ahmadiyya has persecuted 09:27 without any reason at all. 09:31 This was not the vision 09:32 of the Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah 09:34 who was a founder of the Pakistan. 09:36 So they are going away from his rules 09:38 and regulation he set up the goal. 09:40 Pakistan--he separated Pakistan from India. 09:42 You've said the name quickly 09:43 and our viewers know this is Jinnah. 09:45 Yeah, Muhammad Ali Jinnah. 09:46 Yeah, he is a political leader 09:47 but had a religious faith, didn't he? 09:50 No he is a--his once speech is very famous 09:54 and we quote and other people also quote now-a-days 09:58 that he said, in Pakistan everybody will be free. 10:02 There is no nothing that state has to do with church 10:05 or the church state with the mosque or whatsoever. 10:11 So state and church he said it will be separate. 10:14 But he wanted it to be an Islamic homeland. 10:16 Islamic homeland but everybody will be free. 10:19 Then if you want to go synagogue you can go, 10:21 if you want to go to a mosque you can go, 10:23 if you want to go to a mandir you can go. 10:25 He really spelled that all. 10:27 Right, he but the people after that 10:32 did not follow that instruction and guideline. 10:35 Pakistan had a difficult history hasn't it? Right. 10:38 So from partition on 10:40 and of course many people may have forgotten. 10:41 They forget their own sacrifices they did but 10:45 and they are bringing the extremism in Pakistan 10:50 in the name of god in the name of the religion, 10:52 in the name of Islam. 10:54 And the US I don't believe the US is to blame 10:57 but that's the wrong word some people use that. 11:01 But I think it was very unfortunate 11:03 that when the Soviets were in Afghanistan-- 11:07 western interest stirred up, 11:10 fundamentalist thinking to get Mujahideen movement 11:15 to go and fight against the Soviets. 11:17 And I think that encouraged back to another discussion 11:20 that you and I had the wrong version of jihad. 11:23 Don't you think for political purpose? 11:24 Yes, of course. Yeah. 11:26 We don't accept that. 11:27 So the Jennie, the Jennie was out of the bottle. Yeah. 11:32 We've got a another half of this program coming 11:34 but before we get to that half let's just introduce a topic 11:37 that I think we could talk about with some value. 11:42 Women have had an interesting place in history. 11:46 It's not just a religious question 11:48 but you go to the middle ages in the Christian western 11:51 and women were not treated so well. 11:54 And in the United States 11:55 I can remember was only like 40 years ago 11:58 or so that the woman's movement took out here. 12:01 Women lived they called it. 12:02 And woman's rights and now in the modern world 12:06 we're very concerned that woman be treated equally 12:11 but how does Islam treat women. 12:12 That's often I think matter of some discussion. 12:18 How would you characterize just briefly 12:20 and then we go to a break? 12:22 I'll say that woman in Islam 12:25 is source of paradise for Muslims. 12:28 She is the source of paradise. Source of paradise. 12:31 Well, of course, the misuse statement about the jihadi's 12:35 they get to have these virgins in heaven 12:37 in paradise. So woman-- 12:38 It is source of paradise, source of paradise for Muslims. 12:43 Source. Yes, yes. 12:45 With that provocative statement. 12:47 We'll go to a break and comeback after the break 12:50 and we'll continue this discussion 12:51 of the role of woman in Islam. |
Revised 2014-12-17