Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000218B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break with Imam Shamshad 00:10 we had started by talking Imam that jihad 00:15 and I think you gave a good explanation 00:17 as to the spiritual component of the word 00:20 that scares a lot of people since 9/11. 00:22 If I can summarize it to that 00:23 we have three kinds of jihad. Yes. 00:25 Number one that you have first self-reformation, 00:29 follow the teaching of Islam. 00:31 The second is that you have to propagate 00:34 the religion of Islam 00:36 as Quran explains the teaching of the Quran. 00:38 And the third is that if any one attack upon on you, 00:45 Islam allows you to defend yourself. Yeah. 00:47 And the Quran does have a lot to say about something 00:51 that is also in the Old and the New Testaments 00:54 for Christians and Jews. 00:56 The idea that matter some one that dies defending the faith 01:01 and gives their life up. 01:02 You know, this is admirable, it's not unique to Islam. 01:07 Yeah even Revelation it says the souls of the martyrs 01:10 and it is figurative it's not literal 01:12 because I certainly don't believe 01:14 you know the dead or dead and gone 01:17 to come back at the last day. 01:19 But it says that the martyrs cry out under the throne of God. 01:23 So it's a great thing to be so loyal to God 01:28 that you give your life for Him. 01:29 That is not unique to Islam. 01:33 Many religion and their found they were persecuted 01:36 and they gave life for God, that's true. 01:39 Do you remember Pope Benedict? 01:42 He got into lot of trouble 01:44 when he gave a speech at Regensburg. 01:46 It was the first speech of his pontificate 01:49 and he quoted the historic discussion 01:54 between a Persians Muslim attacker 01:57 of Constantinople one of the emperor 01:59 and they were discussing violence in religion. 02:03 Do you remember that? 02:04 Yeah, the thing is that 02:06 what Ahmadiyya Muslim Community presents that 02:10 we are responsible to answer any wrong thing raised 02:15 or any question raised against the teaching of Quran, 02:18 life of Prophet Muhammad is the example, 02:20 and the forth successor. 02:21 After that whatever Muslim king's did 02:25 they have done their own God, 02:27 we are not responsible. 02:28 Well, I'm taking it in a different direction 02:30 that you might realize. 02:32 That was an interesting speech 02:33 and I have given talks on that a lot 02:38 and I read his speech very closely. 02:40 And the Islamic world were startled by what he said 02:44 because they took it is an attack. 02:47 But his speech really was directed at Christians 02:51 and he said something that I don't agree with. 02:55 He said that the early Christians 02:57 were also violent accepting that there was Islamic violence. 03:02 But he said that what took away the violence 03:05 was Greek rationality and I think that's just silly. 03:12 The early Christians when to the lines 03:15 the Roman Empire was very cruel 03:19 prosecuted them and prosecuted others-- 03:21 In fact in Holy Quran has that 03:23 that early Christian were prosecuted-- Absolutely. 03:25 For many, many centuries. So, they didn't react violently. 03:28 And Quran mentioned that one. 03:29 They didn't react violently. Yeah. Yeah. 03:30 That what's I'm getting now. 03:31 And so I think the pope unfortunately had it wrong, 03:35 that in the early days martyrs were seen as faithful people 03:40 that God will one day reward 03:41 but they were not violent martyrs. 03:45 They took the consequence of their faith. 03:47 What I want to say-- In fact, that was their jihad 03:50 that they defend themselves 03:51 and they continue to hold the faith 03:55 and matter of faith very fast for that. 03:58 So this is their jihad. 03:59 So jihad is done by all religious leaders 04:03 and their people but again I want to remove 04:06 this misunderstanding that the Islamic jihad 04:09 doesn't mean that one should go 04:12 and fight and kill innocent people. 04:15 Well, no the key that you're right. 04:18 Even the-- I have read Hadith on jihad 04:23 I mean on military jihad, 04:25 but it never says to be out and kill innocents, 04:27 you're right and of course that the sort of thing 04:30 that religious phonetic they make their own rationalization. 04:34 They told not to kill innocents 04:37 but as I think Al-Qaeda said and it's theologically wrong. 04:43 Well, these people by being part of that system, 04:45 they are participating in the evil. 04:47 But still the facts are they hurt innocent people. 04:49 My dear friend, Steed Lincoln, 04:53 then in the western society or American society, 04:58 whenever where ever the word jihad is mentioned 05:02 immediately their mind goes oh oh. 05:04 For only one reason I know. 05:07 It is meaning, go and kill people, innocent people. 05:10 This is Islamic jihad. 05:12 This is the reason repeatedly 05:13 I'm saying Islamic jihad means self-reformation. 05:17 Become godly person, become closer to him, 05:22 worship him, become righteous person. 05:24 You should have attributes of god, 05:26 attributes of the prophet Muhammad 05:28 and follow his path of peace. Absolutely. 05:31 You know in the Christian New Testament 05:34 Paul says something similar. 05:36 He says even if I give up my body to be burned 05:40 and I haven't faith, haven't charity 05:43 other words don't have the spiritual correctness, 05:46 I have got nothing, and at the end of the day 05:48 that's what it has to be 05:49 the spiritual purity and dedication. 05:52 Not whether you go and do great deeds, 05:55 violent or otherwise, that doesn't praise godliness. 05:58 And I think, I think Jesus Christ 06:01 may godly please with him. 06:02 Also taught this thing that worship God 06:06 and be kind to the people 06:09 and the Prophet Muhammad peace be on him. 06:11 When he brought the Holy Quran 06:12 which I have shown you, 06:14 as many hundreds of commandments 06:16 in the Holy Quran, not a single will say 06:19 that go and act in a manner 06:22 which was not the act of Prophet Muhammad 06:24 or teaching of Quran. 06:26 No, I think it's a convenient twisting 06:30 of even the Quran to agitate for violent jihad. 06:35 I do know whether you have 06:36 the translation of the Holy Quran 06:38 made by Ahmadiyya Muslim Community or not. 06:40 Not your translation. 06:41 The one that I have read-- 06:42 my father got it in Saudi Arabia. 06:44 Okay, one I'll provide you a copy of the Holy Quran 06:47 with English translation 06:48 and it will be very good to know by the our viewers 06:53 that Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has done 06:57 the translation of the Holy Quran 06:59 major 70 languages of the world. 07:02 In African languages, Indian languages, 07:04 Pakistan and American and West African country, 07:10 East African country, Indonesian. 07:12 All these 70 major languages of the world 07:15 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community has made available the translation. 07:16 Oh, so realistic those words are. Yeah. 07:19 You said something earlier 07:21 that is the holding of your believe system 07:29 that there will be a revelation 07:30 at the end of time of a holy leader, right? 07:33 Yeah, coming of the-- 07:36 Mark the Great leader, great teacher. 07:38 Now that is not unique in a way to as we said to Islam. 07:43 Obviously Christianity believes 07:44 in the appearing of God Jesus at the end of time. 07:47 And I have read in number of belief systems, 07:50 I think even in Hinduism they have a similar idea, 07:54 that sort of an end of days 07:55 where the divine person will just come. 07:59 In the New Testament Book of Revelation 08:03 there is some reference there I know Paul talks about 08:06 a false appearing at the end of time, 08:09 that--what's the word in the Quran for Satan, evil? 08:16 Shaitan, Iblis. Iblis. 08:18 Oh, Iblis. Yeah. 08:20 That Iblis will come at the end of time 08:22 as an angle from heaven. 08:25 How would you test if you saw a person 08:29 who appeared at a moment of crisis in the world, 08:33 somebody from the sky's appeared, 08:35 how would you as an Ahmadiyya Imam 08:38 how would you judge that 08:39 this was the one you were expecting? 08:41 No, no listen if somebody is coming from the heaven 08:44 and people are watching how they are going to deny him? 08:47 They are not going to deny him. 08:49 That's exactly, what Seventh-day Adventist believes 08:55 there will be something 08:57 that will be deceptive at the end of time. 09:00 Yeah, but nobody can come from heaven like that. 09:04 This is the reason we say nobody will come. 09:08 And if somebody is coming 09:09 believe me nobody will deny that. 09:12 Who has the power to deny, number one. 09:15 Number two it happened in all the times, 09:17 not only this time that there is some science to know 09:22 which is right which is wrong. 09:24 Time of Jesus, time of Moses, time of Abraham, 09:27 they were all science, they mentioned. 09:30 The same thing are mentioned by this time too. 09:32 In The Bible also, in the Quran also, 09:35 Prophet Muhammad also. 09:37 If a person, let's forget the sky, 09:40 if on television you see that the day 09:44 a divine being appeared in New York 09:48 and was shining and spaceship perhaps even, 09:51 and he starts speaking of God, 09:54 Allah in heaven, and said that he was Jesus or whatever. 10:01 You wouldn't just automatically believe in him. 10:03 Yeah, of course. 10:04 You would judge what he says whether it is-- 10:06 Of course not what he says. 10:07 And that's the point I'm trying it, right. 10:09 Not only what he says 10:11 but support of God gave him to him. 10:14 Let me come to my point, my point 10:16 because the thing is that 10:19 Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani claimed against everybody. 10:24 Because people are waiting someone to come from the heaven 10:26 but he is not from the-- 10:28 heaven mean doesn't physically came from the heaven 10:31 but he is a heavenly person. 10:33 So what is it-- how you are going to judge. 10:36 Now I can give you couple of things to understand 10:39 and to judge on that. 10:41 That India and then Qadian 10:45 from where he was raised is a very tiny area, village. 10:49 Even means of communication were not there. 10:51 Even rail was not there at that time, 10:53 no telegram system was there, no post office system was there. 10:56 So there he says the Gods' told me that 10:59 I'm the Messiah of the age, number one. 11:01 Number two, God told him 11:03 I'll give you large party of Islam. 11:06 Today we are tens of millions, 11:08 two hundred two countries of the world. 11:10 Well certainly. 11:11 And then see the support of God to him, 11:15 heavily prosecution community in Pakistan, 11:20 in Bangladesh, in India and in Indonesia. 11:22 Well, I'm sure that these would be 11:24 encouragements to the system 11:25 but the proof is not in the numbers 11:28 as you very well know with Islam. 11:30 Most of Islam is wrong 11:32 because they don't agree with you. Of course. 11:34 But we do need to be true to our inner spiritual calling. 11:39 Yeah, so how would you summarize that just briefly? 11:44 You see that the matter of fact 11:46 that the trust is that God raised the founder 11:49 of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 11:50 this time to bring all people together 11:53 with peace, justice, harmony 11:56 and understanding to each other 11:58 and that is the reason we say that 12:00 Messiah has come in this age. 12:05 Few words today are as loaded as is the word jihad 12:09 of course it's connotations of 9/11 and religious violence. 12:14 When I think of religious violence, 12:16 you know, I can get back to the Old Testament 12:17 and think of a similar sounding name Jehu, 12:21 one of the judges when he received the word 12:24 that the Lord was with him 12:25 and that he was the Lord's agent. 12:27 He took of at break neck speed with his sword in hand 12:30 and murder and mayhem followed. 12:32 I don't think you can say that 12:33 what he did then was the will of God 12:35 even though God had a work to do. 12:38 Similarly, I think its self evident 12:41 that in the Islamic world and Islamic theology 12:45 the modern violent political jihad 12:47 has a very little to do with what should be 12:50 the true expression of religious faith 12:52 in Islam and as Christians 12:54 we should look and realize that all of us should be 12:57 struggling mightily and internally 13:00 to resolve our besetting sins and clarify our behavior 13:05 and our minds to be more like God to be more God like, 13:08 Christ like and more religious. 13:12 For, Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17