Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000217B
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00:06 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:08 Before the break, I was talking with Imam Shamshad. 00:12 In fact, I'd asked you, a leading question to explain 00:16 the origin and some of the beliefs 00:18 of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. 00:22 Ah, thank you, very much. 00:23 This is very important and valid question 00:26 and because our existence is in 202 countries 00:29 in the world right now, and still many people 00:33 they don't know what Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is. 00:36 So I'll explain and I'd thankful to you to asking this question. 00:39 But you gave the starting point. 00:41 What was the year again that it was, the timeframe? 00:43 Yes, Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 00:44 started 23rd of March, 1889 from India. 00:49 A remote area of India called Qadian, 00:53 where the founder of the Ahmadiyya Community 00:55 claimed that he is the promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi. 00:59 And let me clear a more point here, 01:03 so that people can understand what I am talking. 01:06 Because when we say promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi, 01:08 it is terminology used by the Muslims. 01:11 You know, in the later days, 01:13 these are the great prophecy by each religion. 01:16 Jews are also waiting for someone to come from the heaven. 01:20 Christian friends are also waiting someone, 01:22 who'll come in the later days. 01:24 Muslims also waiting someone to come 01:26 in the great-- in the later days-- 01:28 a great teacher who will revive the faith. 01:30 So Ahmadiyya Community believe that all signs 01:34 mentioned in the Bible and the Quran 01:36 are the prophet Muhammad has come to pass. 01:39 And there should be a great teacher 01:41 or whatever name you give to him, 01:44 Messiah, Imam Mahdi or whatever he has come. 01:48 So you're an end time group. 01:51 Right. You know, Seventh-day Adventist 01:53 out of the protestant Christian background 01:57 came about because from Revelation Chapter 14, 01:59 particularly we believed that it's all about to happen. 02:01 God's judgment and His reconciliation is in process. 02:05 So in some ways you're parallel within Islam. 02:07 Yeah. What we say the person was to come, he has come. 02:13 No more is coming. 02:15 He was your founder. Right. 02:17 Founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. 02:19 His name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, Peace be on him. 02:22 He claimed to be a Messiah of the age-- 02:26 a second advent of the Messiah and the Imam Mahdi. 02:29 Now what is the meaning of Imam Mahdi? 02:31 Imam means leader. 02:33 Mahdi means guided one from God. 02:36 So the one who will come, 02:37 he will be guided by God then he will guide people. 02:41 And to us there is another thing that which Muslim 02:46 blame and raise objection against 02:49 the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community or look 02:51 to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community people, 02:53 and look to their founder that they have believed prophet 02:57 after prophet Muhammad and there is no prophet 03:00 after prophet Muhammad. 03:02 In other sense, they're going away from their own belief. 03:05 They believe somebody will come. 03:08 And the one who will come from God-- 03:10 God will give him the title not the people. 03:13 Well, that isn't the standard mainline Islamic belief 03:18 that the Mahdi is the twelfth Imam. 03:21 Oh, it is from the Shia people, 03:23 not all Muslim believe like that. 03:26 It is from Shia-- 03:28 And Shias believe in the twelfth Imam? 03:30 Yeah, it's Shia belief. 03:32 But all Muslims, other Muslims, 03:34 all they believe Imam Mahdi and promise Messiah, 03:39 Jesus son of Mary, Isa ibn Maryam, 03:41 which is mentioned in Holy Quran, 03:43 he will come, he will appear. 03:44 So the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslims Community, 03:48 Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, peace be on him, 03:51 He said, I am the Messiah of the age. 03:53 I am that great teacher whose coming was foretold by Quran, 03:58 by Bible, by everybody by Prophet Muhammad. 04:01 So I am that person. 04:02 So this is the difference between 04:04 the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and rest of the Muslims. 04:07 Yeah, and you put your finger on it from all of picked up 04:10 that's offensive to too many Muslims 04:13 because it seems to put Muhammad as just one among 04:16 as succession of and not the last of the prophets, right? 04:21 Yeah, they considered 04:22 that Prophet Muhammad is last prophet. 04:24 We also believe, but we believe that as Prophet Muhammad 04:28 has mentioned, Peace be on Him, 04:29 that someone coming after me and who will come to revive 04:33 the religion of Islam, we say that person has come. 04:36 So belief is the same, 04:38 there is a disagreement on the personality. 04:41 They are waiting someone to come. 04:42 There's another thing difference, 04:44 if your time permit me, I can mentioned that one. 04:48 Okay, few minutes. Yeah, so that I can mention 04:50 that they're waiting for Jesus, 04:52 Son of Mary to appear from the heaven. 04:54 Yeah. We say nobody is in the heaven. 04:57 Nobody will come from the heaven. 04:59 The one who'll come, who'll be among the follower 05:01 of the Prophet Muhammad Peace be on Him. 05:04 And he will be his subordinate. 05:06 Not independent at all. 05:08 So that is our point of belief, 05:10 a point of view which we are presenting before you. 05:13 But you have some inclusion of the biblical Jesus 05:19 in your understanding don't you. 05:22 Yeah, in the Quran, the Jesus Son of Mary, 05:25 to whom people say Jesus he is mentioned in the Holy Quran 05:28 in many places, many chapters, verses of the Holy Quran. 05:32 Although, He is seen as a messenger from God, 05:33 not the Son of God, not as part of deity. 05:37 Yeah. So you have continued that. 05:41 I got the idea from reading some histories 05:44 of the Ahmadiyya Movement that it was partly as a reaction 05:50 to a perceived vulnerability, perhaps even from some Muslims 05:55 to the Christian expression of Jesus. 05:58 They wanted to fill up the gap so that Islam 06:02 could encompass Jesus without, of course moving away 06:06 from an Islamic understanding. 06:08 You know, you wouldn't put it that way. 06:10 No, we have very simple thing to say. 06:13 We believe that all prophets were righteous 06:16 and they came from God. 06:17 Including Jesus Christ, May God be pleased with Him. 06:20 So this is very simple belief, 06:22 and which everybody accepts among the Muslim. 06:25 And we believe Jesus also, we call him son of Mary, 06:29 not Son of God because he's mentioned in the Holy Quran, 06:32 Isa ibn Maryam, that He is the son of Mary. 06:36 So we believe in Him as a Prophet of God. 06:38 He was a righteous person and he led 06:41 the children of Israel to the right path, 06:43 means towards one God Almighty. 06:45 Now I saw a very interesting program 06:47 from the BBC not along ago. 06:50 They picked up some legends, well legend is the wrong word, 06:54 some anecdotal remembrances in India that are great teacher 07:00 that they tried to identify with Jesus perhaps ended his life 07:05 in that part of the world. 07:06 Do you know this? You know, 07:07 this is very interesting thing when you said India, 07:09 what the research by the founder Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 07:16 is that Jesus Son of Mary who claimed to be a Messiah 07:19 and he was the Prophet to the children of Israel, 07:24 2000 years back and he died natural death. 07:29 He didn't go to the heaven. And he-- 07:31 Now this is a very standard Islamic view. 07:33 Right. No standard Ahmadiyya Muslim view. 07:36 Not other Muslims. 07:38 I do understand that it's not clear in the Quran 07:42 as I've read it, now I have understand 07:43 that it's ambiguously seen in Islam 07:45 but the thought is that Jesus escape 07:48 the cross and lived out in Islam. 07:50 Right well, what Quran says. That you're more particular 07:52 about what happened to Him. 07:53 Right. What Quran says that he was put on the cross, 07:57 but he did not die on the cross. 07:59 Then he brought down from the cross 08:01 and he was handed over to his disciple. 08:03 He was put in the grave in the ground and for 3 days 08:06 they put ointment on him 08:08 and his injury were healed and he migrated. 08:11 And what Quran says, (speaking in Arabic) 08:16 "that he migrated to the place where hilly area 08:19 and very green area and very fountain area. 08:24 So we search his, we traced paths from that area 08:31 to the India, Kashmir, Srinagar. 08:34 I thought that it was Kashmir. 08:35 Right. Thank you brought that up, 08:36 which fatly explains about such a disputed 08:39 territory between India and Pakistan. 08:41 Yeah, between India and Pakistan. Yeah. 08:42 It's a great significance from many of the-- 08:44 So the founder Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, 08:47 Mirza Ghulam Muhammad, peace be on him, 08:49 he wrote a book "Jesus in India" 08:51 and we have made translation available of this book 08:54 in many other languages of the world. 08:55 I think I will send that book also to you. 08:59 So you can see the trace, how Jesus migrated 09:04 from one area to other area, 09:05 and it is also with all the prophets of God. 09:08 Because when they're persecuted 09:10 by the hand of their own people, they migrated. 09:13 Prophet Muhammad also migrated 09:14 from his own people, from Mecca to Medina. 09:17 It's a very reasonable response. 09:18 Obviously, you know, thatscenario of Jesus doesn't, 09:24 you know, Christians would have trouble with that. 09:26 But I think it's worth explaining 09:28 that people need to know this understanding and, 09:32 you know, you have to your beliefs. 09:34 I mean I can't say enough, you cannot hold such a view. 09:39 But we need the information. 09:40 It's a good explanation. 09:41 And as you say respect, respect is more important. 09:45 Everybody has the way of respect, 09:47 differently maybe. 09:48 Now the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community respect Jesus, 09:52 son of Mary in a manner because 09:54 it is mentioned in the Old Testament, 09:56 the one who is hanged is cursed to God. 09:58 Yeah. So if he died on the-- 10:00 That's in Isaiah. Right. 10:01 If he died on the cross, 10:03 to us it is disgrace, dishonor for him. 10:05 How God will dishonor, disgrace his own person. 10:08 So therefore, we say-- 10:10 That's the Christian conundrum what the Bible says that's the-- 10:12 Right. So what we say here-- 10:14 It's an amazing development. 10:15 What we say here that when he was praying to God, 10:18 "Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani" or "Oh My Father, 10:21 Oh My Father why you've forsaken me." 10:23 God accepted His prayer. 10:25 And he brought him down conscious. 10:27 He was conscious. 10:28 And he was brought down and he was handed over to his disciple, 10:32 they gave him the ointment. 10:34 He ate food and things with his disciple. 10:37 Then he migrated and told his disciples, 10:38 don't tell about me to anyone. 10:40 So therefore, we say that he was brought down live. 10:45 And he didn't die on the cross. 10:46 If he died on the cross then Antipas was right, 10:49 to die a curse death we don't accept for a prophet of God. 10:53 So that is respect which give to Jesus son of Mary. 10:55 It's a very significant 10:57 theological distinction that you have made. 11:00 Now it's very interesting information. 11:02 And now I am sure that most of our viewers have never heard 11:05 that before or never even thought of that. 11:08 And need to know that it's central to what you believe. 11:11 We're starting to run off time and thank you for sharing, 11:15 but just very briefly in a few moments left, 11:19 perhaps you could explain you know, 11:21 what is the role of Ahmadiyya Community 11:25 not just within Islam, but within the world? 11:27 What do you say? 11:28 Well, our message is the message of Islam 11:31 and message of peace and we're trying to convey 11:34 this message to each and everyone. 11:36 Our slogan is "love for all hatred for none." 11:39 Our present head of the Ahamdiyya Muslim Community, 11:42 Mirza Masroor Ahmed, who is fifth successor 11:45 of the Community is announcing all over the world 11:49 that Islam is the religion of peace, 11:51 Prophet Muhammad is the religion of peace. 11:56 I sometimes think of the scene of Moses, 12:00 80 years old, 40 years in the wilderness 12:03 but come out of Egypt where they were many Gods, 12:06 descended from desert dwellers where Abraham 12:11 who went into the desert and had heard a voice saying I am God. 12:14 And here in the desert Moses 12:16 sees a burning bush and a voice says, "I am." 12:20 What is God? 12:22 It's a question that really perplexes many people today 12:25 until they find particulars in holy writings. 12:29 The Islamic world refers to Allah that same God. 12:33 The Christian world talks about God represented through Jesus. 12:38 The Jewish economy speaks of Yahweh. 12:41 But in reality, all are reaching 12:44 towards the same transcendent being. 12:46 And while there are clearly truths and errors implicit 12:51 in some of the particular beliefs systems, 12:53 we have to accept that all men lead to reach toward God. 12:57 And in a religious liberty context, 12:59 encourage them to that, empower to them to that end, 13:03 and protect people in any country, 13:05 in any situation as they open their minds 13:08 to see the great Elohim. 13:11 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17