Welcome back to
the "Liberty Insider."
00:00:06.39\00:00:08.53
Before the break, I was
talking with Imam Shamshad.
00:00:08.56\00:00:12.24
In fact, I'd asked you, a
leading question to explain
00:00:12.27\00:00:16.09
the origin and
some of the beliefs
00:00:16.12\00:00:18.09
of the Ahmadiyya
Muslim Community.
00:00:18.12\00:00:22.13
Ah, thank you, very much.
00:00:22.16\00:00:23.41
This is very
important and valid question
00:00:23.44\00:00:26.43
and because our
existence is in 202 countries
00:00:26.46\00:00:29.91
in the world right
now, and still many people
00:00:29.94\00:00:33.88
they don't know what
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is.
00:00:33.91\00:00:36.16
So I'll explain and I'd thankful
to you to asking this question.
00:00:36.19\00:00:39.67
But you gave the starting point.
00:00:39.70\00:00:41.30
What was the year again
that it was, the timeframe?
00:00:41.33\00:00:43.06
Yes, Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
00:00:43.09\00:00:44.74
started 23rd of
March, 1889 from India.
00:00:44.77\00:00:49.78
A remote area of
India called Qadian,
00:00:49.81\00:00:52.97
where the founder of
the Ahmadiyya Community
00:00:53.00\00:00:55.42
claimed that he is the
promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi.
00:00:55.45\00:00:59.84
And let me clear
a more point here,
00:00:59.87\00:01:03.57
so that people can
understand what I am talking.
00:01:03.60\00:01:06.05
Because when we say
promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi,
00:01:06.08\00:01:08.46
it is terminology
used by the Muslims.
00:01:08.49\00:01:11.54
You know, in the later days,
00:01:11.57\00:01:13.07
these are the great
prophecy by each religion.
00:01:13.10\00:01:16.72
Jews are also waiting for
someone to come from the heaven.
00:01:16.75\00:01:20.22
Christian friends
are also waiting someone,
00:01:20.25\00:01:22.91
who'll come in the later days.
00:01:22.94\00:01:24.27
Muslims also
waiting someone to come
00:01:24.30\00:01:26.37
in the great--
in the later days--
00:01:26.40\00:01:28.12
a great teacher who
will revive the faith.
00:01:28.15\00:01:30.85
So Ahmadiyya
Community believe that all signs
00:01:30.88\00:01:34.39
mentioned in the
Bible and the Quran
00:01:34.42\00:01:36.65
are the prophet
Muhammad has come to pass.
00:01:36.68\00:01:39.50
And there should
be a great teacher
00:01:39.53\00:01:41.79
or whatever
name you give to him,
00:01:41.82\00:01:44.19
Messiah, Imam Mahdi
or whatever he has come.
00:01:44.22\00:01:48.73
So you're an end time group.
00:01:48.76\00:01:51.70
Right. You know,
Seventh-day Adventist
00:01:51.73\00:01:53.42
out of the
protestant Christian background
00:01:53.45\00:01:57.08
came about because
from Revelation Chapter 14,
00:01:57.11\00:01:59.68
particularly we believed
that it's all about to happen.
00:01:59.71\00:02:01.82
God's judgment and His
reconciliation is in process.
00:02:01.85\00:02:05.03
So in some ways
you're parallel within Islam.
00:02:05.06\00:02:07.28
Yeah. What we say the
person was to come, he has come.
00:02:07.31\00:02:13.04
No more is coming.
00:02:13.07\00:02:15.75
He was your founder. Right.
00:02:15.78\00:02:17.32
Founder of the
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
00:02:17.35\00:02:19.13
His name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
of Qadian, Peace be on him.
00:02:19.16\00:02:22.68
He claimed to be a
Messiah of the age--
00:02:22.71\00:02:26.27
a second advent of the
Messiah and the Imam Mahdi.
00:02:26.30\00:02:29.92
Now what is the
meaning of Imam Mahdi?
00:02:29.95\00:02:31.76
Imam means leader.
00:02:31.79\00:02:33.50
Mahdi means guided one from God.
00:02:33.53\00:02:36.00
So the one who will come,
00:02:36.03\00:02:37.63
he will be guided by God
then he will guide people.
00:02:37.66\00:02:40.98
And to us there is
another thing that which Muslim
00:02:41.01\00:02:46.60
blame and raise
objection against
00:02:46.63\00:02:49.29
the Ahmadiyya
Muslim Community or look
00:02:49.32\00:02:51.40
to the Ahmadiyya
Muslim Community people,
00:02:51.43\00:02:53.40
and look to their founder
that they have believed prophet
00:02:53.43\00:02:57.59
after prophet Muhammad
and there is no prophet
00:02:57.62\00:03:00.27
after prophet Muhammad.
00:03:00.30\00:03:02.05
In other sense, they're going
away from their own belief.
00:03:02.08\00:03:05.65
They believe somebody will come.
00:03:05.68\00:03:08.06
And the one who
will come from God--
00:03:08.09\00:03:10.26
God will give him
the title not the people.
00:03:10.29\00:03:13.51
Well, that isn't the
standard mainline Islamic belief
00:03:13.54\00:03:18.20
that the Mahdi
is the twelfth Imam.
00:03:18.23\00:03:21.07
Oh, it is from the Shia people,
00:03:21.10\00:03:23.23
not all Muslim
believe like that.
00:03:23.26\00:03:26.66
It is from Shia--
00:03:26.69\00:03:28.07
And Shias believe
in the twelfth Imam?
00:03:28.10\00:03:30.35
Yeah, it's Shia belief.
00:03:30.38\00:03:32.41
But all Muslims, other Muslims,
00:03:32.44\00:03:34.79
all they believe Imam
Mahdi and promise Messiah,
00:03:34.82\00:03:39.16
Jesus son of
Mary, Isa ibn Maryam,
00:03:39.19\00:03:41.67
which is
mentioned in Holy Quran,
00:03:41.70\00:03:43.00
he will come, he will appear.
00:03:43.03\00:03:44.87
So the founder of the
Ahmadiyya Muslims Community,
00:03:44.90\00:03:48.50
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of
Qadian, peace be on him,
00:03:48.53\00:03:51.26
He said, I am the
Messiah of the age.
00:03:51.29\00:03:53.88
I am that great teacher whose
coming was foretold by Quran,
00:03:53.91\00:03:58.35
by Bible, by
everybody by Prophet Muhammad.
00:03:58.38\00:04:01.29
So I am that person.
00:04:01.32\00:04:02.48
So this is the
difference between
00:04:02.51\00:04:04.41
the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
and rest of the Muslims.
00:04:04.44\00:04:07.07
Yeah, and you put your finger
on it from all of picked up
00:04:07.10\00:04:10.03
that's offensive
to too many Muslims
00:04:10.06\00:04:13.68
because it seems to put
Muhammad as just one among
00:04:13.71\00:04:16.80
as succession of and not
the last of the prophets, right?
00:04:16.83\00:04:21.27
Yeah, they considered
00:04:21.30\00:04:22.44
that Prophet
Muhammad is last prophet.
00:04:22.47\00:04:24.40
We also believe, but we
believe that as Prophet Muhammad
00:04:24.43\00:04:28.32
has mentioned, Peace be on Him,
00:04:28.35\00:04:29.87
that someone coming after
me and who will come to revive
00:04:29.90\00:04:33.51
the religion of Islam,
we say that person has come.
00:04:33.54\00:04:36.60
So belief is the same,
00:04:36.63\00:04:38.24
there is a
disagreement on the personality.
00:04:38.27\00:04:41.35
They are
waiting someone to come.
00:04:41.38\00:04:42.80
There's another
thing difference,
00:04:42.83\00:04:44.64
if your time permit me,
I can mentioned that one.
00:04:44.67\00:04:48.21
Okay, few minutes.
Yeah, so that I can mention
00:04:48.24\00:04:49.97
that they're waiting for Jesus,
00:04:50.00\00:04:52.85
Son of Mary to
appear from the heaven.
00:04:52.88\00:04:54.89
Yeah. We say
nobody is in the heaven.
00:04:54.92\00:04:57.44
Nobody will
come from the heaven.
00:04:57.47\00:04:59.18
The one who'll come,
who'll be among the follower
00:04:59.21\00:05:01.77
of the Prophet
Muhammad Peace be on Him.
00:05:01.80\00:05:04.55
And he will be his subordinate.
00:05:04.58\00:05:06.82
Not independent at all.
00:05:06.85\00:05:08.58
So that is our point of belief,
00:05:08.61\00:05:10.29
a point of view which we
are presenting before you.
00:05:10.32\00:05:13.40
But you have some
inclusion of the biblical Jesus
00:05:13.43\00:05:19.89
in your understanding don't you.
00:05:19.92\00:05:22.33
Yeah, in the Quran,
the Jesus Son of Mary,
00:05:22.36\00:05:25.62
to whom people say Jesus he
is mentioned in the Holy Quran
00:05:25.65\00:05:28.86
in many places, many chapters,
verses of the Holy Quran.
00:05:28.89\00:05:32.55
Although, He is seen
as a messenger from God,
00:05:32.58\00:05:33.81
not the Son of God,
not as part of deity.
00:05:33.84\00:05:37.84
Yeah. So you
have continued that.
00:05:37.87\00:05:41.07
I got the idea from
reading some histories
00:05:41.10\00:05:44.87
of the Ahmadiyya Movement
that it was partly as a reaction
00:05:44.90\00:05:50.68
to a perceived vulnerability,
perhaps even from some Muslims
00:05:50.71\00:05:55.26
to the Christian
expression of Jesus.
00:05:55.29\00:05:57.99
They wanted to fill
up the gap so that Islam
00:05:58.02\00:06:02.85
could encompass Jesus
without, of course moving away
00:06:02.88\00:06:06.28
from an Islamic understanding.
00:06:06.31\00:06:08.84
You know, you
wouldn't put it that way.
00:06:08.87\00:06:10.19
No, we have very
simple thing to say.
00:06:10.22\00:06:13.67
We believe that all
prophets were righteous
00:06:13.70\00:06:16.32
and they came from God.
00:06:16.35\00:06:17.66
Including Jesus Christ,
May God be pleased with Him.
00:06:17.69\00:06:20.78
So this is very simple belief,
00:06:20.81\00:06:22.52
and which everybody
accepts among the Muslim.
00:06:22.55\00:06:25.64
And we believe Jesus
also, we call him son of Mary,
00:06:25.67\00:06:29.75
not Son of God because he's
mentioned in the Holy Quran,
00:06:29.78\00:06:32.67
Isa ibn Maryam, that
He is the son of Mary.
00:06:32.70\00:06:36.22
So we believe in
Him as a Prophet of God.
00:06:36.25\00:06:38.79
He was a
righteous person and he led
00:06:38.82\00:06:41.08
the children of
Israel to the right path,
00:06:41.11\00:06:43.03
means towards one God Almighty.
00:06:43.06\00:06:45.08
Now I saw a very
interesting program
00:06:45.11\00:06:47.31
from the BBC not along ago.
00:06:47.34\00:06:50.12
They picked up some legends,
well legend is the wrong word,
00:06:50.15\00:06:54.07
some anecdotal remembrances
in India that are great teacher
00:06:54.10\00:07:00.58
that they tried to identify with
Jesus perhaps ended his life
00:07:00.61\00:07:05.39
in that part of the world.
00:07:05.42\00:07:06.45
Do you know this? You know,
00:07:06.48\00:07:07.64
this is very interesting
thing when you said India,
00:07:07.67\00:07:09.88
what the research by the founder
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
00:07:09.91\00:07:16.16
is that Jesus Son of Mary
who claimed to be a Messiah
00:07:16.19\00:07:19.90
and he was the Prophet
to the children of Israel,
00:07:19.93\00:07:24.26
2000 years back and
he died natural death.
00:07:24.29\00:07:29.46
He didn't go to
the heaven. And he--
00:07:29.49\00:07:31.45
Now this is a very
standard Islamic view.
00:07:31.48\00:07:33.67
Right. No standard
Ahmadiyya Muslim view.
00:07:33.70\00:07:36.89
Not other Muslims.
00:07:36.92\00:07:38.84
I do understand that
it's not clear in the Quran
00:07:38.87\00:07:42.11
as I've read it,
now I have understand
00:07:42.14\00:07:43.32
that it's
ambiguously seen in Islam
00:07:43.35\00:07:45.83
but the thought
is that Jesus escape
00:07:45.86\00:07:48.37
the cross and
lived out in Islam.
00:07:48.40\00:07:50.29
Right well, what Quran says.
That you're more particular
00:07:50.32\00:07:52.36
about what happened to Him.
00:07:52.39\00:07:53.50
Right. What Quran says
that he was put on the cross,
00:07:53.53\00:07:57.17
but he did not die on the cross.
00:07:57.20\00:07:59.22
Then he brought
down from the cross
00:07:59.25\00:08:01.35
and he was handed
over to his disciple.
00:08:01.38\00:08:03.20
He was put in the grave
in the ground and for 3 days
00:08:03.23\00:08:06.55
they put ointment on him
00:08:06.58\00:08:08.59
and his injury were
healed and he migrated.
00:08:08.62\00:08:11.92
And what Quran
says, (speaking in Arabic)
00:08:11.95\00:08:16.36
"that he migrated to
the place where hilly area
00:08:16.39\00:08:19.65
and very green area
and very fountain area.
00:08:19.68\00:08:24.56
So we search his, we
traced paths from that area
00:08:24.59\00:08:31.32
to the India, Kashmir, Srinagar.
00:08:31.35\00:08:34.25
I thought that it was Kashmir.
00:08:34.28\00:08:35.37
Right. Thank
you brought that up,
00:08:35.40\00:08:36.80
which fatly explains
about such a disputed
00:08:36.83\00:08:39.37
territory between
India and Pakistan.
00:08:39.40\00:08:41.19
Yeah, between
India and Pakistan. Yeah.
00:08:41.22\00:08:42.56
It's a great
significance from many of the--
00:08:42.59\00:08:44.32
So the founder
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community,
00:08:44.35\00:08:47.71
Mirza Ghulam
Muhammad, peace be on him,
00:08:47.74\00:08:49.26
he wrote a book "Jesus in India"
00:08:49.29\00:08:51.37
and we have made translation
available of this book
00:08:51.40\00:08:54.13
in many other
languages of the world.
00:08:54.16\00:08:55.87
I think I will send
that book also to you.
00:08:55.90\00:08:59.01
So you can see the
trace, how Jesus migrated
00:08:59.04\00:09:04.02
from one area to other area,
00:09:04.05\00:09:05.85
and it is also with
all the prophets of God.
00:09:05.88\00:09:08.43
Because when they're persecuted
00:09:08.46\00:09:10.20
by the hand of their
own people, they migrated.
00:09:10.23\00:09:13.32
Prophet Muhammad also migrated
00:09:13.35\00:09:14.96
from his own people,
from Mecca to Medina.
00:09:14.99\00:09:17.27
It's a very reasonable response.
00:09:17.30\00:09:18.91
Obviously, you know,
thatscenario of Jesus doesn't,
00:09:18.94\00:09:24.23
you know, Christians
would have trouble with that.
00:09:24.26\00:09:26.60
But I think
it's worth explaining
00:09:26.63\00:09:28.61
that people need to
know this understanding and,
00:09:28.64\00:09:32.38
you know, you
have to your beliefs.
00:09:32.41\00:09:34.94
I mean I can't say enough,
you cannot hold such a view.
00:09:34.97\00:09:39.07
But we need the information.
00:09:39.10\00:09:40.74
It's a good explanation.
00:09:40.77\00:09:41.96
And as you say respect,
respect is more important.
00:09:41.99\00:09:45.11
Everybody has
the way of respect,
00:09:45.14\00:09:47.07
differently maybe.
00:09:47.10\00:09:48.44
Now the Ahmadiyya
Muslim Community respect Jesus,
00:09:48.47\00:09:52.24
son of Mary in a manner because
00:09:52.27\00:09:54.21
it is mentioned
in the Old Testament,
00:09:54.24\00:09:56.26
the one who is
hanged is cursed to God.
00:09:56.29\00:09:58.82
Yeah. So if he died on the--
00:09:58.85\00:10:00.34
That's in Isaiah. Right.
00:10:00.37\00:10:01.56
If he died on the cross,
00:10:01.59\00:10:03.32
to us it is
disgrace, dishonor for him.
00:10:03.35\00:10:05.87
How God will dishonor,
disgrace his own person.
00:10:05.90\00:10:08.82
So therefore, we say--
00:10:08.85\00:10:09.98
That's the Christian conundrum
what the Bible says that's the--
00:10:10.01\00:10:12.29
Right. So what we say here--
00:10:12.32\00:10:14.05
It's an amazing development.
00:10:14.08\00:10:15.14
What we say here that
when he was praying to God,
00:10:15.17\00:10:18.13
"Eli Eli Lama
Sabachthani" or "Oh My Father,
00:10:18.16\00:10:21.04
Oh My Father why
you've forsaken me."
00:10:21.07\00:10:23.25
God accepted His prayer.
00:10:23.28\00:10:25.08
And he brought
him down conscious.
00:10:25.11\00:10:27.33
He was conscious.
00:10:27.36\00:10:28.93
And he was brought down and he
was handed over to his disciple,
00:10:28.96\00:10:32.40
they gave him the ointment.
00:10:32.43\00:10:34.05
He ate food and
things with his disciple.
00:10:34.08\00:10:36.99
Then he migrated
and told his disciples,
00:10:37.02\00:10:38.93
don't tell about me to anyone.
00:10:38.96\00:10:40.85
So therefore, we say
that he was brought down live.
00:10:40.88\00:10:45.27
And he didn't die on the cross.
00:10:45.30\00:10:46.74
If he died on the
cross then Antipas was right,
00:10:46.77\00:10:49.96
to die a curse death we don't
accept for a prophet of God.
00:10:49.99\00:10:53.10
So that is respect which
give to Jesus son of Mary.
00:10:53.13\00:10:55.94
It's a very significant
00:10:55.97\00:10:57.77
theological
distinction that you have made.
00:10:57.80\00:11:00.84
Now it's very
interesting information.
00:11:00.87\00:11:02.39
And now I am sure that most
of our viewers have never heard
00:11:02.42\00:11:05.15
that before or never
even thought of that.
00:11:05.18\00:11:08.27
And need to know that it's
central to what you believe.
00:11:08.30\00:11:11.23
We're starting to run off
time and thank you for sharing,
00:11:11.26\00:11:15.07
but just very briefly
in a few moments left,
00:11:15.10\00:11:19.93
perhaps you
could explain you know,
00:11:19.96\00:11:21.75
what is the role
of Ahmadiyya Community
00:11:21.78\00:11:25.33
not just within
Islam, but within the world?
00:11:25.36\00:11:27.09
What do you say?
00:11:27.12\00:11:28.54
Well, our message
is the message of Islam
00:11:28.57\00:11:31.21
and message of peace
and we're trying to convey
00:11:31.24\00:11:34.63
this message to
each and everyone.
00:11:34.66\00:11:36.25
Our slogan is "love
for all hatred for none."
00:11:36.28\00:11:39.89
Our present head of the
Ahamdiyya Muslim Community,
00:11:39.92\00:11:42.29
Mirza Masroor Ahmed,
who is fifth successor
00:11:42.32\00:11:45.38
of the Community is
announcing all over the world
00:11:45.41\00:11:49.93
that Islam is the
religion of peace,
00:11:49.96\00:11:51.96
Prophet Muhammad is
the religion of peace.
00:11:51.99\00:11:56.83
I sometimes think
of the scene of Moses,
00:11:56.86\00:12:00.37
80 years old, 40
years in the wilderness
00:12:00.40\00:12:03.36
but come out of Egypt
where they were many Gods,
00:12:03.39\00:12:06.74
descended from desert
dwellers where Abraham
00:12:06.77\00:12:11.34
who went into the desert and had
heard a voice saying I am God.
00:12:11.37\00:12:14.70
And here in the desert Moses
00:12:14.73\00:12:16.91
sees a burning bush
and a voice says, "I am."
00:12:16.94\00:12:20.91
What is God?
00:12:20.94\00:12:22.18
It's a question that really
perplexes many people today
00:12:22.21\00:12:25.84
until they find
particulars in holy writings.
00:12:25.87\00:12:29.34
The Islamic world
refers to Allah that same God.
00:12:29.37\00:12:33.13
The Christian world talks about
God represented through Jesus.
00:12:33.16\00:12:38.11
The Jewish
economy speaks of Yahweh.
00:12:38.14\00:12:41.86
But in reality, all are reaching
00:12:41.89\00:12:44.07
towards the same
transcendent being.
00:12:44.10\00:12:46.91
And while there are clearly
truths and errors implicit
00:12:46.94\00:12:50.99
in some of the
particular beliefs systems,
00:12:51.02\00:12:53.50
we have to accept that all
men lead to reach toward God.
00:12:53.53\00:12:57.63
And in a
religious liberty context,
00:12:57.66\00:12:59.62
encourage them to that,
empower to them to that end,
00:12:59.65\00:13:03.22
and protect
people in any country,
00:13:03.25\00:13:05.44
in any situation as
they open their minds
00:13:05.47\00:13:08.12
to see the great Elohim.
00:13:08.15\00:13:10.99
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:13:11.02\00:13:14.53