Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Imam Shamshad A. Nasir
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000217A
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00:22 Welcome to "The Liberty Insider."
00:25 This is the program that brings you news, 00:27 views, discussion, and up-to-date information 00:29 on religious liberty events in the United States 00:32 and around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine 00:37 and I have a very special guest 00:38 on this program, Imam Shamshad. 00:42 Welcome Imam. Thank you very much. 00:44 This is particularly a great moment for me 00:47 because we've had quite a lot of discussions 00:50 over several years and just last night you told me 00:53 what I didn't really realize 00:56 that it was because of Liberty Magazine 00:58 that you felt inclined to come and come to my office 01:01 and strike up a relationship. 01:03 I was--I am receiving the magazine for a long time, 01:08 and when once I read the address on that it was in Maryland. 01:13 Very close to where you had the mosque at that time. 01:15 Yeah. I was in Maryland for 8 years 01:17 which is very close to your office. 01:20 So I thought that I should come and visit you. 01:23 And when I called your office you were not there, 01:26 you were out of country, but Melissa, she was very kind. 01:31 Oh, yes. So she gave me the word 01:33 that this man comes looking for me 01:35 and then little later we connected. 01:37 We've had some great discussions. 01:38 Yes, yes, of course. 01:41 And I need to let our viewers 01:42 that you're not in Maryland anymore, 01:45 you're the Imam of the-- 01:47 Chino mosque of Baitul Hameed, 01:48 which is in California, 45 miles away from Los Angles. 01:54 And so we have come to a middle ground 01:56 here in St. Louis. We were on two coasts. 01:58 We have come to the middle of the United States. 01:59 Right, that is great. And have some discussion. 02:01 I enjoyed all hospitality and everything. 02:04 Right. Now I need to tell our viewers, 02:07 and of course I see this program as I introduced it, 02:11 obviously talking about religious liberty 02:12 and bringing news and views, but it's also very explanatory 02:16 because may be not everybody, in spite of recent events, 02:22 knows that much about Islam. 02:24 So I think this is a good opportunity 02:25 for you to explain a little and first thing 02:28 I should tell people 02:29 is that you are an Imam from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. 02:33 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in U.S.A. 02:35 Now how would you characterize 02:37 the difference with the Ahmadiyya Community 02:40 from the larger Muslim world community? 02:44 First of all, I will be thankful to God Almighty 02:46 that He provided this opportunity through you 02:49 and I'm thankful to you also inviting me today 02:52 in this program and your question is very valid 02:55 and very important that I will say, 02:59 the question will be what is Islam, 03:02 and what is Ahmadiyya Muslim Community role in Islam and-- 03:06 And as far as the word Islam, doesn't that mean submission? 03:08 Yeah, right. 03:09 Most people don't know that. Islam means peace. 03:11 Islam is Arabic word which means 03:13 peace and submission to the will of God. 03:15 It means those people who follow the religion of Islam, 03:18 they're called Muslims. 03:21 Muslims, sometimes people do not understand 03:23 what is Muslim, what is Islam. 03:25 Islam is the name of religion 03:27 and the Muslims are those who follow the religion of Islam 03:30 like Christianity and Christian. 03:33 Christians are those who follow the Christianity. 03:35 So name of religion and name of those who follow the religion. 03:40 So Muslim is the name of those who follow 03:42 the religion of Islam and Islam is the name of the religion. 03:45 I do know that in the West particularly they are not aware 03:48 that within Islam there are as many variants 03:52 as there are within Western Christianity. 03:54 Right. And in fact, 03:57 I will make a comparison that you might not agree with, 04:00 but in our recent presidential elections 04:03 in the United States in the pre-selection process, 04:08 you know, Mitt Romney, 04:09 a Mormon was given a very hard time 04:12 by the larger Christian community 04:14 because they said Mormons are not Christians. 04:17 Well, I think that was rude, but within Christianity, 04:22 particularly Protestantism there are some prejudiced views 04:26 towards Mormons and I do not agree with their theology, 04:30 but they have every right to hold it, 04:34 as under the principles of religious freedom 04:36 and people following their own conscious dictates. 04:41 And they do call upon God. 04:43 They clam that they are worshiping God. 04:45 Now this is-- don't you think there's a certain enology 04:48 with the Ahmadiyya Community and the Muslims. 04:50 Yeah, the rest of the Muslims, you know-- 04:51 Because there are some like in your homeland, 04:53 Pakistan, Ahmadiyyas are vilified 04:57 as not even Muslims, which are incorrect. 05:00 I 100% agree with you Islam 05:02 is the religion of peace and tolerance 05:05 and it provides freedom to each and everyone, 05:09 whatever religion anybody want to adopt, 05:13 practice, propagate, Islam gives total freedom 05:18 and it says in the Holy Quran, 05:21 there is no compulsion in the matter of faith. 05:24 In fact, Prophet of Islam, all of his life 05:27 gave that freedom to each and everyone, 05:29 and therefore we, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 05:34 follow that rules and principles 05:36 of the founder of Islam Muhammad, peace be upon him. 05:39 So as you are saying that in Pakistan it is very true. 05:44 In 1974 the government of Pakistan, 05:48 through the National Assembly of Pakistan, 05:50 then the Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, 05:53 under the pressure of the Mullah 05:55 he declared Ahmadiyya Muslims, non-Muslim. 05:59 No, I didn't know it was Bhutto. Yeah, 1974. 06:02 This is the Prime Minister who ended up being executed. 06:06 Yeah, that Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, 06:08 1974 he declared us under the pressure 06:13 of the Mullah and Saudi Arabia and other countries 06:16 that he should declare us non-Muslim minority. 06:20 So politically, he took that matter 06:23 in the assembly of Pakistan and for couple of days 06:27 discussion and they invited our big leaders, 06:30 spiritual leaders Mirza Nasir Ahmad, 06:32 then the third successor of the founder 06:34 of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community 06:35 with his delegates, he was there. 06:37 So after that they declared us non-Muslim minority 06:41 for the purpose of the constitution of Pakistan. 06:44 So no religiously they announced that one, 06:48 for the purpose of the constitution of Pakistan 06:50 they declared us non-Muslim minority. 06:53 And then in 1984, then the dictator Zia-Ul-Haq 06:58 also band so many things that we can not call our self Muslim, 07:02 we cannot call our place of our worship like mosque 07:06 as we call and we cannot greet as Muslim greeting. 07:10 We cannot impose ourselves 07:12 directly or indirectly that we are Muslim. 07:15 And anybody do like that he will put in prison 07:18 for many years and fine will be put on him. 07:22 So since then, especially 1984, Ahmadiyya Muslim community 07:27 under great pressure and great persecution 07:29 and 28th of May, 2010, recently two years happened 07:37 and these people attacked our two biggest mosques in Lahore, 07:41 Pakistan on Friday. 07:43 You know, Friday sacred day. Yes, the day of prayers. 07:45 Yes, thousands of people were in the mosque 07:48 and they come and shoot our people, 07:50 86 people were dead on the spot, 07:52 126 people were injured and some of them 07:56 also passed away after that. 07:58 So persecution is going on and I agree with you totally 08:02 that liberty or the freedom is more important 08:05 in the matter of faith and religion. 08:08 No religion allows force another person 08:11 to accept his or her religion. 08:13 And Islam says also very clearly 08:16 that there should be know compulsion 08:18 in the matter of faith or the religion. 08:20 Yeah, it's a very complicated story and before the program 08:23 we were talking about it, in the middle ages 08:26 particularly with the Roman Catholic Church 08:28 when it was allied with the state. 08:30 You know, the Christianity indulged in a lot of persecution 08:34 and even today in some areas I know the Buddhists 08:38 become aggressive and in Myanmar, 08:41 I'm sure you know the situation there at the moment, 08:43 the Buddhists majority are persecuting 08:45 very small Muslim minority. 08:49 So it seems like proponents of almost any religion 08:53 often persecute others, but there is a question 08:58 that occurs to a lot of people 09:00 as you discuss this about Pakistan 09:03 and this horrible situation with the Ahmadis. 09:07 In spite of what Muhammad may have laid out 09:11 and the Quran generally says about no compulsion, 09:15 what's going on? Why are we seeing so much violence 09:21 within Muslim communities of late? 09:23 Is there something that stimulating this? 09:26 I think it is not the religion that teaching them this thing, 09:30 it is they have gone way from the teaching of Islam 09:34 and teaching of Quran and practice 09:36 of Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him. 09:38 Now we follow Quran and we follow Sunnah 09:41 or we can say tradition 09:42 or the practice of the Prophet Muhammad. 09:44 Therefore, people should 09:46 what was the example Prophet Muhammad. 09:48 Did he do things like that his lifetime? 09:51 If he didn't do then we don't have license to do that things 09:54 what is going on right now because in Quran 09:58 it is stated very clearly 10:00 that Prophet Muhammad is example for you. 10:03 So to whom you are following, the religion of Islam 10:05 and the founder of Islam and the teaching of the Quran. 10:08 Whatever action today Muslims are doing 10:10 it is not--not all Muslims, I'm sorry, not all Muslims, 10:14 radical Muslims or whatever. Yeah? 10:16 And then that's something 10:17 that all people should remember 10:18 particularly those of us in religious liberty-- 10:22 Extremists! You can't easily generalize. 10:24 Well, even if extremism is one way to put up, 10:27 but even if something represents 10:30 the legitimate take on a certain religion, 10:32 not everybody thinks that way 10:34 and that's problem within our Adventist community. 10:37 We have certain distinctive, but unfortunately 10:41 the majority perhaps of our memberships 10:43 are not following through on those. 10:46 So perhaps that's a human failing, 10:48 but I think certain aspects-- 10:50 But that human feeling, or failing, 10:52 but they should not take it as religious. 10:55 That is the problem, which is occurring 10:57 that their action does not match with the teaching of the Quran, 11:01 the teaching and tradition and the practice 11:04 of the founder of Islam. 11:06 So they should not say, they should not label it 11:09 that it's Islamic teaching. 11:10 Yeah, I have told you and many other people 11:14 when we talk about religious liberty 11:16 we need to beware that we don't try to 11:23 create a common view point like chains, 11:27 you know, you have very particular views as Muslim. 11:29 I have particular views as a Christians. 11:31 Well, when we have dialogue, we shouldn't try to reconcile 11:35 and say that they become one. 11:36 It's not really possible. Right, right. 11:38 So there's always going to be differences, 11:41 but I think in discussing things 11:43 we can clarify a lot and give knowledge 11:46 so that we understand better and have mutual respect. 11:49 I think that is necessary in this model of religious liberty. 11:55 But talking about clarifying the situation, 11:58 I think it would be very hopeful for our viewers 12:00 to just introduce and explain what the Ahmadiyya community is, 12:05 I'm not really sure in the West, 12:07 particularly most people have any understanding, 12:10 even though you're a very influential group 12:13 within the West particularly and very strong in Pakistan, 12:17 but many people have come against Ahmadiyya Muslims 12:20 not realizing who you are and so I would like for you 12:24 to explain this and give us a little bit of history 12:27 and may be the way you differ theologically 12:31 from mainstream Islam and I think this will really 12:34 be a great service for our viewers. 12:37 And I know this is going to take a few minutes 12:39 and our break is coming up, so I would tell our viewers 12:42 come back after a short break and you're going to hear, 12:45 I believe a very succinct explanation 12:47 of what an Ahmadiyya Muslim 12:49 is and what the Ahmadi Community is. 12:52 Stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17