Welcome to "The
Liberty Insider."
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This is the program
that brings you news,
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views, discussion,
and up-to-date information
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on religious liberty
events in the United States
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and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and I have a very special guest
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on this program, Imam Shamshad.
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Welcome Imam.
Thank you very much.
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This is particularly
a great moment for me
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because we've had
quite a lot of discussions
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over several years and
just last night you told me
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what I didn't really realize
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that it was
because of Liberty Magazine
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that you felt inclined to
come and come to my office
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and strike up a relationship.
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I was--I am receiving
the magazine for a long time,
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and when once I read the address
on that it was in Maryland.
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Very close to where you
had the mosque at that time.
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Yeah. I was in
Maryland for 8 years
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which is very
close to your office.
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So I thought that I
should come and visit you.
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And when I called your
office you were not there,
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you were out of country,
but Melissa, she was very kind.
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Oh, yes. So she gave me the word
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that this man
comes looking for me
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and then little
later we connected.
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We've had some
great discussions.
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Yes, yes, of course.
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And I need to let our viewers
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that you're not
in Maryland anymore,
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you're the Imam of the--
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Chino mosque of Baitul Hameed,
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which is in California, 45
miles away from Los Angles.
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And so we have
come to a middle ground
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here in St. Louis.
We were on two coasts.
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We have come to the
middle of the United States.
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Right, that is great.
And have some discussion.
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I enjoyed all
hospitality and everything.
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Right. Now I need
to tell our viewers,
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and of course I see this
program as I introduced it,
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obviously talking
about religious liberty
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and bringing news and views,
but it's also very explanatory
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because may be not everybody,
in spite of recent events,
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knows that much about Islam.
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So I think this
is a good opportunity
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for you to explain a
little and first thing
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I should tell people
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is that you are an Imam from
the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
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Ahmadiyya Muslim
Community in U.S.A.
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Now how would you characterize
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the difference with
the Ahmadiyya Community
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from the larger
Muslim world community?
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First of all, I will be
thankful to God Almighty
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that He provided this
opportunity through you
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and I'm thankful to
you also inviting me today
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in this program and
your question is very valid
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and very
important that I will say,
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the question
will be what is Islam,
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and what is Ahmadiyya Muslim
Community role in Islam and--
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And as far as the word Islam,
doesn't that mean submission?
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Yeah, right.
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Most people don't know
that. Islam means peace.
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Islam is Arabic word which means
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peace and
submission to the will of God.
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It means those people who
follow the religion of Islam,
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they're called Muslims.
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Muslims, sometimes
people do not understand
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what is Muslim, what is Islam.
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Islam is the name of religion
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and the Muslims are those
who follow the religion of Islam
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like Christianity and Christian.
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Christians are those
who follow the Christianity.
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So name of religion and name of
those who follow the religion.
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So Muslim is the
name of those who follow
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the religion of Islam and Islam
is the name of the religion.
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I do know that in the West
particularly they are not aware
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that within Islam
there are as many variants
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as there are within
Western Christianity.
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Right. And in fact,
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I will make a comparison
that you might not agree with,
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but in our recent
presidential elections
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in the United States in
the pre-selection process,
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you know, Mitt Romney,
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a Mormon was
given a very hard time
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by the larger
Christian community
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because they said
Mormons are not Christians.
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Well, I think that was
rude, but within Christianity,
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particularly Protestantism
there are some prejudiced views
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towards Mormons and I do
not agree with their theology,
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but they have
every right to hold it,
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as under the
principles of religious freedom
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and people following
their own conscious dictates.
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And they do call upon God.
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They clam that
they are worshiping God.
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Now this is-- don't you
think there's a certain enology
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with the Ahmadiyya
Community and the Muslims.
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Yeah, the rest of
the Muslims, you know--
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Because there are
some like in your homeland,
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Pakistan,
Ahmadiyyas are vilified
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as not even
Muslims, which are incorrect.
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I 100% agree with you Islam
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is the religion of
peace and tolerance
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and it provides
freedom to each and everyone,
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whatever religion
anybody want to adopt,
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practice, propagate,
Islam gives total freedom
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and it says in the Holy Quran,
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there is no compulsion
in the matter of faith.
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In fact, Prophet of
Islam, all of his life
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gave that freedom
to each and everyone,
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and therefore we, the
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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follow that rules and principles
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of the founder of Islam
Muhammad, peace be upon him.
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So as you are saying that
in Pakistan it is very true.
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In 1974 the
government of Pakistan,
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through the National
Assembly of Pakistan,
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then the Prime
Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto,
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under the pressure of the Mullah
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he declared
Ahmadiyya Muslims, non-Muslim.
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No, I didn't know it
was Bhutto. Yeah, 1974.
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This is the Prime Minister
who ended up being executed.
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Yeah, that Zulfikar Ali Bhutto,
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1974 he declared
us under the pressure
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of the Mullah and Saudi
Arabia and other countries
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that he should declare
us non-Muslim minority.
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So politically,
he took that matter
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in the assembly of
Pakistan and for couple of days
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discussion and they
invited our big leaders,
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spiritual leaders
Mirza Nasir Ahmad,
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then the third
successor of the founder
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of the
Ahmadiyya Muslim community
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with his
delegates, he was there.
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So after that they
declared us non-Muslim minority
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for the purpose of the
constitution of Pakistan.
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So no religiously
they announced that one,
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for the purpose of the
constitution of Pakistan
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they declared us
non-Muslim minority.
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And then in 1984, then
the dictator Zia-Ul-Haq
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also band so many things that
we can not call our self Muslim,
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we cannot call our place
of our worship like mosque
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as we call and we cannot
greet as Muslim greeting.
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We cannot impose ourselves
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directly or
indirectly that we are Muslim.
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And anybody do like
that he will put in prison
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for many years and
fine will be put on him.
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So since then, especially
1984, Ahmadiyya Muslim community
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under great pressure
and great persecution
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and 28th of May, 2010,
recently two years happened
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and these people attacked our
two biggest mosques in Lahore,
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Pakistan on Friday.
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You know, Friday sacred
day. Yes, the day of prayers.
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Yes, thousands of
people were in the mosque
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and they come
and shoot our people,
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86 people were dead on the spot,
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126 people were
injured and some of them
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also passed away after that.
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So persecution is going on
and I agree with you totally
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that liberty or the
freedom is more important
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in the matter of
faith and religion.
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No religion allows
force another person
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to accept his or her religion.
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And Islam says also very clearly
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that there should
be know compulsion
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in the matter of
faith or the religion.
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Yeah, it's a very complicated
story and before the program
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we were talking about
it, in the middle ages
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particularly with
the Roman Catholic Church
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when it was
allied with the state.
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You know, the Christianity
indulged in a lot of persecution
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and even today in some
areas I know the Buddhists
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become
aggressive and in Myanmar,
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I'm sure you know the
situation there at the moment,
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the Buddhists
majority are persecuting
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very small Muslim minority.
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So it seems like proponents
of almost any religion
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often persecute
others, but there is a question
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that occurs to a lot of people
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as you discuss
this about Pakistan
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and this horrible
situation with the Ahmadis.
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In spite of what
Muhammad may have laid out
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and the Quran generally
says about no compulsion,
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what's going on? Why are
we seeing so much violence
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within Muslim
communities of late?
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Is there something
that stimulating this?
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I think it is not the religion
that teaching them this thing,
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it is they have gone way
from the teaching of Islam
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and teaching of
Quran and practice
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of Prophet
Muhammad, peace be on him.
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Now we follow Quran
and we follow Sunnah
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or we can say tradition
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or the practice of
the Prophet Muhammad.
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Therefore, people should
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what was the
example Prophet Muhammad.
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Did he do things
like that his lifetime?
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If he didn't do then we don't
have license to do that things
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what is going on
right now because in Quran
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it is stated very clearly
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that Prophet
Muhammad is example for you.
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So to whom you are
following, the religion of Islam
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and the founder of Islam
and the teaching of the Quran.
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Whatever action
today Muslims are doing
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it is not--not all Muslims,
I'm sorry, not all Muslims,
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radical Muslims
or whatever. Yeah?
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And then that's something
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that all people should remember
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particularly those of
us in religious liberty--
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Extremists! You
can't easily generalize.
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Well, even if
extremism is one way to put up,
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but even if something represents
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the legitimate take
on a certain religion,
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not everybody thinks that way
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and that's problem
within our Adventist community.
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We have certain
distinctive, but unfortunately
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the majority
perhaps of our memberships
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are not
following through on those.
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So perhaps
that's a human failing,
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but I think certain aspects--
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But that human
feeling, or failing,
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but they should not
take it as religious.
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That is the
problem, which is occurring
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that their action does not match
with the teaching of the Quran,
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the teaching and
tradition and the practice
00:11:01.74\00:11:04.89
of the founder of Islam.
00:11:04.92\00:11:06.91
So they should not say,
they should not label it
00:11:06.94\00:11:09.27
that it's Islamic teaching.
00:11:09.30\00:11:10.51
Yeah, I have told
you and many other people
00:11:10.54\00:11:14.69
when we talk
about religious liberty
00:11:14.72\00:11:16.30
we need to beware
that we don't try to
00:11:16.33\00:11:23.16
create a common
view point like chains,
00:11:23.19\00:11:27.00
you know, you have very
particular views as Muslim.
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I have particular
views as a Christians.
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Well, when we have dialogue,
we shouldn't try to reconcile
00:11:31.96\00:11:35.05
and say that they become one.
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It's not really
possible. Right, right.
00:11:36.44\00:11:38.96
So there's always
going to be differences,
00:11:38.99\00:11:41.06
but I think in discussing things
00:11:41.09\00:11:43.29
we can clarify a
lot and give knowledge
00:11:43.32\00:11:46.40
so that we understand
better and have mutual respect.
00:11:46.44\00:11:49.34
I think that is necessary in
this model of religious liberty.
00:11:49.37\00:11:55.12
But talking about
clarifying the situation,
00:11:55.15\00:11:58.67
I think it would be
very hopeful for our viewers
00:11:58.70\00:12:00.70
to just introduce and explain
what the Ahmadiyya community is,
00:12:00.73\00:12:05.61
I'm not really sure in the West,
00:12:05.64\00:12:07.27
particularly most
people have any understanding,
00:12:07.30\00:12:09.99
even though you're a
very influential group
00:12:10.02\00:12:13.23
within the West particularly
and very strong in Pakistan,
00:12:13.26\00:12:17.33
but many people have
come against Ahmadiyya Muslims
00:12:17.36\00:12:20.24
not realizing who you are
and so I would like for you
00:12:20.27\00:12:24.14
to explain this and give
us a little bit of history
00:12:24.17\00:12:27.79
and may be the way
you differ theologically
00:12:27.82\00:12:31.20
from mainstream Islam
and I think this will really
00:12:31.23\00:12:34.94
be a great
service for our viewers.
00:12:34.97\00:12:37.25
And I know this is
going to take a few minutes
00:12:37.28\00:12:39.02
and our break is coming
up, so I would tell our viewers
00:12:39.05\00:12:42.88
come back after a short
break and you're going to hear,
00:12:42.91\00:12:45.50
I believe a very
succinct explanation
00:12:45.53\00:12:47.71
of what an Ahmadiyya Muslim
00:12:47.74\00:12:49.91
is and what the
Ahmadi Community is.
00:12:49.94\00:12:52.77
Stay with us.
00:12:52.80\00:12:53.94