Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tina Ramirez
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000214B
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00:06 Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break I was talking with guest Tina Ramirez 00:12 about how can we engage-- the question of the challenge 00:15 of how we can engage young people in religious liberty 00:18 because we must, it's not really an option, is it? No. 00:22 They're the world of tomorrow. 00:23 In fact in reality they're the world 00:25 of today more than half. 00:26 What was the age-wise break up, half of the world is under 25. 00:29 Yeah, 50% of the world's population. 00:31 And even that's misleading 00:32 because you can get in many countries 00:34 where the proportion is way, way higher for I think it's up. 00:37 In many countries the majority are under 20. 00:40 Yeah. You know there's a huge youth bulge in many countries. 00:43 And interestingly enough there are statistics that show 00:45 that when youth population has reached over 00:48 a certain percentage like over 30% 00:50 there is more likelihood of civil conflict. 00:53 So it's definitely important to engage them 00:55 on human rights and religious freedom-- 00:57 Especially if it's more than half of the males-- 00:59 Yeah, it's true. 01:02 And in China I'm sure that will be a problem 01:03 because of the one child policy. 01:04 Absolutely, I was thinking about that 01:05 when we talk about the youth people. 01:06 Yeah. Well I think there is a story 01:08 that will probably help me answer that question. 01:12 And when I worked for Konstantin Frank 01:15 several years ago back in 2007. 01:18 The first case that I took for him, 01:20 I was an international religious freedom staffer 01:22 that was the only issue I handled for him. 01:24 And I was the only staffer in Congress 01:26 at the time working on religious freedom. 01:27 And so the American Islamic Congress had approached me 01:30 about a case of the young man name Kareem Abdul Amer. 01:34 And Kareem was imprisoned in Egypt. 01:36 He had been imprisoned for several months at that point. 01:39 And he was in solitary confinement. 01:41 And they contacted me because in a matter of weeks 01:44 they were going to put him on immediate trial 01:46 and sentenced him to about 10 years. 01:50 And they knew he would be tortured 01:51 that he would never get out. 01:54 And what was the charge? At least in one piece. 01:55 Well, at the time there wasn't a charge but it was 01:57 because he had written a blog. 01:59 And in his blog he had criticized the president, 02:03 President Mubarak at the time for attacks on Christians. 02:06 There's major attack that happened 02:08 in the city of Al-Kosh and so-- 02:10 And what was-- was he a Muslim, Christian? 02:12 He is Muslim. 02:13 Yeah, and he had been trained by the Americans Islamic Congress 02:15 in their training conferences. 02:17 So they contact me and they said "can you help." 02:19 And so I said "sure." So we drafted a letter. 02:21 The Congressmen Trent Franks 02:23 and on other end of the spectrum Barney Frank. 02:27 So you can't go more conservative and more liberal 02:29 than the US congress. 02:30 Cosigned this letter we send it to the Egyptian embassy. 02:34 And the Egyptian embassy called the Congressmen right away 02:37 and the next day the trial was postponed. 02:40 And it was a miracle. 02:41 And everybody in Egypt was shocked 02:44 because they all-- the social media world in Egypt 02:47 and around the world is really growing 02:49 but it's still so small that everybody knows each other 02:52 and Kareem was a prominent blogger at the time. 02:54 He was the first person ever imprisoned and sentenced 02:57 for writing about religion. 02:59 And so it's really important case. 03:01 So we--anyway his trial was postponed 03:04 and then within a matter of several more weeks, 03:07 he finally was sentenced to four years in imprison. 03:10 One year, for criticizing the president, 03:12 and three years for insulting Islam under Article 98 03:17 of the penal code in Egypt which basically outlaws blasphemy. 03:23 So because he was critical of the president 03:26 and of Islam for the way 03:28 that these Christians have been treated, 03:31 he was sentenced to six to four years in prison. 03:33 But everybody was amazed 03:34 because they thought he will get ten years. 03:36 And by the way I doubt under that legal system 03:38 it's like the US where you're often about half the time, 03:41 you mind your business-- 03:43 Yeah, there's no early exit. 03:44 Yeah, you serve the full, I mean he served more than that 03:47 because he served for four years, 03:49 plus the other months he got but. 03:52 What's interesting about that case in light of this discussion 03:54 about youth is that Kareem is a young man. 03:56 And so I worked for the Congressmen for four years 04:00 and right before I left it was, 04:03 it was 2010 which was right before the Arab Spring. 04:06 And so Kareem was released 04:08 in the fall around October, November. 04:10 And when he was released, he went and he helped to fight. 04:12 He up stand with other young people in the revolution 04:17 that stood hand in hand with Christians and Muslims 04:19 against the Mubarak regime and all of that began in Egypt 04:22 because the Coptic community was attacked on New Year's Eve 04:26 and the government allowed it to happen. 04:28 In Alexandria this was the-- 04:30 There was the big attack. 04:31 And so that ignited this huge response from civil society. 04:36 Many of them were young people 04:38 and were standing hand in hand together Muslim and Christian 04:41 fighting for religious freedom and human rights 04:43 and just democracy or freedom to not be imprisoned 04:47 and just snuffed off, you know life wasted way or tortured. 04:51 Kareem was lucky. 04:52 Most of the bloggers, the people that are imprisoned 04:53 were tortured and brutally treated 04:55 but because we monitored this case for four years. 04:58 He got out safely and he took part in that revolution 05:01 which has transformed the country. 05:02 I don't know if it was him but I saw several of those bloggres. 05:06 Young people are involved in social media 05:08 came forward during the revolution, 05:10 although later I heard a few of them interviewed 05:12 saying that it had been hijacked from them. 05:15 Well, absolutely. They moved around and they felt betrayed. 05:17 Yeah, even the young woman that I had met 05:19 when I was working on Kareem's case. 05:21 Daliaziada and who is now still working 05:25 in the civil society in Egypt. 05:27 She was--she had worked with the number of woman to go out 05:32 and lead a protest during the revolution for woman's right 05:36 and some of the men told them go home, 05:38 it's not your time yet. 05:39 And so definitely, you know, the revolution was taken over 05:45 by the Muslim brotherhood, we see that now. 05:47 But the good thing is that you have people 05:49 like Kareem that are alive. 05:51 And that are still fighting 05:52 that extremist etiology in government, 05:55 that's that was so entrenched they couldn't just be with, 05:58 you know, eliminated with Mubarak. 06:00 And so because we helped him there 06:04 when he was defending Christians. 06:05 Made a big difference. 06:06 Well, it has made a difference and it will make the difference 06:08 in the future of that country. 06:09 But I say this because young people around the world 06:14 are engaged in so many different ways than in the past. 06:18 And so when we're looking at how to engage youth. 06:20 We really need to think much differently than we have before. 06:23 And one of the reasons that I mentioned in the story is 06:25 because we need to recognize the importance of social media. 06:28 Social media usage throughout 06:31 the Middle East, Africa and Asia and much of the world 06:34 is just I mean it's expanding at rapid paces 06:38 and I mean it's amazing what's happening. 06:39 Well, you can tell when you travel to these countries, 06:41 there's internet cafes and so on. 06:43 And they use these for self or for texting 06:46 and for sending messages and tweets. 06:47 They don't have computer themselves 06:49 but they will pay good money stand in line, 06:51 I see the lines of them for a few minutes 06:53 at the computer terminal, and that's what they're doing. 06:56 And so we know that youth are affected by the culture 06:58 but if our culture isn't talking about religious freedom 07:00 because our media doesn't care how they ever going 07:02 to be influenced by it. 07:03 But if we can bypass the media through social media 07:06 and engage them somehow and show them young people 07:10 around the world like them that are standing up 07:12 for human rights, for dignity, for truth, 07:15 for the ability to speak their mind 07:17 and to not be attacked because of it 07:19 on a blog or anything else. 07:20 That's something that young people will get behind 07:22 and they want to. 07:23 That's not a matter of whether this young man Kareem 07:25 is religious or not. 07:26 It's about the fact that he has an opinion 07:29 and it happens to be an opinion on religion 07:32 that he wants to express. 07:33 But he doesn't have the freedom to do it 07:34 in a society that restricts religious freedom. 07:37 So I think, yeah. 07:38 And it has the ability to use that cliché to go viral. 07:41 Yeah, it does. 07:42 Like the young man can infect in a positive way 07:44 to tens of thousands. 07:46 And we saw in Iran with the uprising 07:49 that happened in Iran right around. 07:50 That was young people. 07:51 The first year of Obama's-- of Obama's first term in office. 07:54 These young people they spread all of that information 07:57 through social media and they were just dying 07:59 for somebody to come up and stand behind them 08:01 and to support them. 08:03 And what happened. We can quickly ignore it. 08:05 And they got brutalized by the Iranian government. 08:08 And they were just left in the dust. 08:10 But with Kareem, we know that can be a difference 08:13 between life and death for these people 08:14 and between the difference, 08:15 between having a continuous close regime 08:17 like we have in Iran and a regime in Egypt 08:19 which isn't great by any stretch of imagination right now. 08:22 But those young people will not give up 08:24 that fight in Egypt ever again. 08:26 I don't think that we're going to see this regime 08:29 that we have in Egypt last much longer 08:30 because they've tasted freedom, 08:32 they fought for it and they're not going to end 08:35 and stop until they've gotten it. And so-- 08:38 Well, my prediction for Egypt 08:40 is that there will be military takeover. 08:42 Well, I don't know what will happen. But we hope. 08:44 The military takeover in the past was not accurate, 08:47 that's Mubarak essentially was. Absolutely. 08:50 We're definitely at the precipice 08:52 or the crossroads of some important-- 08:53 And I'm sure young-I mean young people will always flow 08:56 but I'm sure this coming generation of young people 08:59 are going to send this world in some interesting direction. 09:04 So it's their's to command. And that's-- 09:06 And we need the Christians so, 09:08 it's not so much may be little different for me. 09:10 But I don't think the question is so much 09:12 where the young people will determine the future. 09:15 But can how can we insert 09:18 religious liberty into their origin. 09:19 Oh, absolutely. 09:20 No I think that's the perfect question 09:23 because it can go, one direction 09:26 which will be really better, 09:27 it can go in really good direction. 09:28 And so one of the things I think it's so important 09:31 is that young people in the west become inspired 09:33 by these young people around the Middle East 09:35 and the rest of the world 09:36 that are truly standing up for freedom. 09:39 We don't understand what religious freedom is here. 09:41 They don't care about it. 09:42 But when they see a young Muslim that if it, 09:47 you know, it's not about a matter of faith for him. 09:48 It's a matter of whether every human being 09:51 in this country is free to live out who they are freely 09:55 or if they're going to be oppressed for and imprisoned. 09:57 You have changed my view of Liberty Magazine. 10:00 I'll do something. 10:01 I have stayed clear of having too many stories 10:05 because they're interesting 10:06 but they don't illustrate a larger point. 10:08 But I can see now the value of certain stories 10:10 to inspire people and I think we'll put a few stories 10:14 into inspire because, you know, 10:16 just this one that you are saying this young man. 10:18 Yeah. Amazing, amazing-- 10:20 No, there is definitely a lot of stories out there 10:22 of these young people doing inspiring things. 10:24 And it will be inspiration for the youth in America 10:28 if they see those stories they come alongside. 10:31 And whether it's liking them on Facebook 10:33 or whatever it might be, 10:34 just those added numbers of support means life 10:37 for these people in the Middle East around the world 10:40 that are really fighting for something 10:43 much bigger than just themselves. 10:47 A lot of the cynics of late are inclined to make 10:50 much of the fact that Mohammed may have married young brides. 10:55 A lot of the cynics that I get emails from are inclined 10:58 to make much of the Rabbis allowing 11:01 for marriage of distinctly young minors. 11:04 Those are really cultural misunderstandings 11:07 that we should better leave alone. 11:09 What I find in studying history is that over and over 11:14 the people have made a difference in history. 11:16 The people that have made a difference in religion 11:19 and let's be more specific in Christianity, 11:21 where young people those disciples 11:24 that followed Jesus were invariably young men. 11:28 Those missionaries that went out 11:30 in the early days of Christianity 11:32 were invariably young people and they made a difference. 11:36 And somehow those of us who're little bit older to see 11:39 the value of religious freedom and what needs to be done, 11:43 have to communicate to young people the burning 11:46 need for them to act 11:48 because young people do have the energy. 11:50 Young people do have the idealism. 11:53 And as Jesus said speaking to the Pharisees 11:56 ''the world belongs to the young." 12:01 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17