Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
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Before the break I was
talking with guest Tina Ramirez
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about how can we engage--
the question of the challenge
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of how we can engage young
people in religious liberty
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because we must, it's not
really an option, is it? No.
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They're the world of tomorrow.
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In fact in
reality they're the world
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of today more than half.
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What was the age-wise break up,
half of the world is under 25.
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Yeah, 50% of the
world's population.
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And even that's misleading
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because you can
get in many countries
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where the proportion is way,
way higher for I think it's up.
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In many countries the
majority are under 20.
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Yeah. You know there's a huge
youth bulge in many countries.
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And interestingly enough
there are statistics that show
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that when youth
population has reached over
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a certain
percentage like over 30%
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there is more
likelihood of civil conflict.
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So it's definitely
important to engage them
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on human rights
and religious freedom--
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Especially if it's more
than half of the males--
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Yeah, it's true.
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And in China I'm sure
that will be a problem
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because of the one child policy.
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Absolutely, I was
thinking about that
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when we talk
about the youth people.
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Yeah. Well I
think there is a story
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that will probably help
me answer that question.
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And when I worked
for Konstantin Frank
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several years ago back in 2007.
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The first case
that I took for him,
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I was an international
religious freedom staffer
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that was the only
issue I handled for him.
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And I was the only
staffer in Congress
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at the time working
on religious freedom.
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And so the American Islamic
Congress had approached me
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about a case of the young
man name Kareem Abdul Amer.
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And Kareem was
imprisoned in Egypt.
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He had been imprisoned for
several months at that point.
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And he was in
solitary confinement.
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And they contacted me
because in a matter of weeks
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they were going to
put him on immediate trial
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and sentenced him
to about 10 years.
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And they knew he
would be tortured
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that he would never get out.
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And what was the
charge? At least in one piece.
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Well, at the time there
wasn't a charge but it was
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because he had written a blog.
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And in his blog he had
criticized the president,
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President Mubarak at the
time for attacks on Christians.
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There's major
attack that happened
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in the city of Al-Kosh and so--
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And what was-- was
he a Muslim, Christian?
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He is Muslim.
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Yeah, and he had been trained by
the Americans Islamic Congress
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in their training conferences.
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So they contact me and
they said "can you help."
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And so I said "sure."
So we drafted a letter.
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The Congressmen Trent Franks
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and on other end of
the spectrum Barney Frank.
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So you can't go more
conservative and more liberal
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than the US congress.
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Cosigned this letter we
send it to the Egyptian embassy.
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And the Egyptian embassy called
the Congressmen right away
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and the next day
the trial was postponed.
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And it was a miracle.
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And everybody in
Egypt was shocked
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because they all-- the
social media world in Egypt
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and around the
world is really growing
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but it's still so small
that everybody knows each other
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and Kareem was a
prominent blogger at the time.
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He was the first person
ever imprisoned and sentenced
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for writing about religion.
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And so it's
really important case.
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So we--anyway his
trial was postponed
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and then within a
matter of several more weeks,
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he finally was sentenced
to four years in imprison.
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One year, for
criticizing the president,
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and three years for
insulting Islam under Article 98
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of the penal code in Egypt which
basically outlaws blasphemy.
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So because he was
critical of the president
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and of Islam for the way
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that these
Christians have been treated,
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he was sentenced to six
to four years in prison.
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But everybody was amazed
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because they thought
he will get ten years.
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And by the way I doubt
under that legal system
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it's like the US where you're
often about half the time,
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you mind your business--
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Yeah, there's no early exit.
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Yeah, you serve the full, I
mean he served more than that
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because he
served for four years,
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plus the other
months he got but.
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What's interesting about that
case in light of this discussion
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about youth is that
Kareem is a young man.
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And so I worked for the
Congressmen for four years
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and right before I left it was,
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it was 2010 which was
right before the Arab Spring.
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And so Kareem was released
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in the fall
around October, November.
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And when he was released,
he went and he helped to fight.
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He up stand with other
young people in the revolution
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that stood hand in hand
with Christians and Muslims
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against the Mubarak regime
and all of that began in Egypt
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because the Coptic community
was attacked on New Year's Eve
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and the government
allowed it to happen.
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In Alexandria this was the--
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There was the big attack.
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And so that ignited this huge
response from civil society.
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Many of them were young people
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and were standing hand in hand
together Muslim and Christian
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fighting for religious
freedom and human rights
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and just democracy or
freedom to not be imprisoned
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and just snuffed off, you know
life wasted way or tortured.
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Kareem was lucky.
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Most of the bloggers, the
people that are imprisoned
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were tortured
and brutally treated
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but because we monitored
this case for four years.
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He got out safely and he
took part in that revolution
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which has
transformed the country.
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I don't know if it was him but
I saw several of those bloggres.
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Young people are
involved in social media
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came forward
during the revolution,
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although later I heard
a few of them interviewed
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saying that it had
been hijacked from them.
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Well, absolutely. They moved
around and they felt betrayed.
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Yeah, even the
young woman that I had met
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when I was
working on Kareem's case.
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Daliaziada and who
is now still working
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in the civil society in Egypt.
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She was--she had worked with
the number of woman to go out
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and lead a protest during
the revolution for woman's right
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and some of the
men told them go home,
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it's not your time yet.
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And so definitely, you know,
the revolution was taken over
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by the Muslim
brotherhood, we see that now.
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But the good thing
is that you have people
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like Kareem that are alive.
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And that are still fighting
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that extremist
etiology in government,
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that's that was so entrenched
they couldn't just be with,
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you know,
eliminated with Mubarak.
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And so because
we helped him there
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when he was
defending Christians.
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Made a big difference.
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Well, it has made a difference
and it will make the difference
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in the future of that country.
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But I say this because
young people around the world
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are engaged in so many
different ways than in the past.
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And so when we're
looking at how to engage youth.
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We really need to think much
differently than we have before.
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And one of the reasons
that I mentioned in the story is
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because we need to recognize
the importance of social media.
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Social media usage throughout
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the Middle East, Africa
and Asia and much of the world
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is just I mean it's
expanding at rapid paces
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and I mean it's
amazing what's happening.
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Well, you can tell when
you travel to these countries,
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there's
internet cafes and so on.
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And they use these
for self or for texting
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and for sending
messages and tweets.
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They don't have
computer themselves
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but they will pay
good money stand in line,
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I see the lines of
them for a few minutes
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at the computer terminal,
and that's what they're doing.
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And so we know that youth
are affected by the culture
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but if our culture isn't
talking about religious freedom
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because our media
doesn't care how they ever going
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to be influenced by it.
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But if we can bypass the
media through social media
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and engage them somehow
and show them young people
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around the world like
them that are standing up
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for human rights,
for dignity, for truth,
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for the ability
to speak their mind
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and to not be
attacked because of it
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on a blog or anything else.
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That's something that
young people will get behind
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and they want to.
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That's not a matter of
whether this young man Kareem
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is religious or not.
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It's about the fact
that he has an opinion
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and it happens to be
an opinion on religion
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that he wants to express.
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But he doesn't have
the freedom to do it
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in a society that
restricts religious freedom.
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So I think, yeah.
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And it has the ability to
use that cliché to go viral.
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Yeah, it does.
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Like the young man can
infect in a positive way
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to tens of thousands.
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And we saw in
Iran with the uprising
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that happened in
Iran right around.
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That was young people.
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The first year of Obama's--
of Obama's first term in office.
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These young people they
spread all of that information
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through social media
and they were just dying
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for somebody to come
up and stand behind them
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and to support them.
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And what happened. We
can quickly ignore it.
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And they got brutalized
by the Iranian government.
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And they were
just left in the dust.
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But with Kareem, we
know that can be a difference
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between life and
death for these people
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and between the difference,
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between having a
continuous close regime
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like we have in Iran
and a regime in Egypt
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which isn't great by any stretch
of imagination right now.
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But those young
people will not give up
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that fight in Egypt ever again.
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I don't think that
we're going to see this regime
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that we have in
Egypt last much longer
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because they've tasted freedom,
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they fought for it and
they're not going to end
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and stop until
they've gotten it. And so--
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Well, my prediction for Egypt
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is that there will
be military takeover.
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Well, I don't know what
will happen. But we hope.
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The military takeover in
the past was not accurate,
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that's Mubarak
essentially was. Absolutely.
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We're
definitely at the precipice
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or the crossroads
of some important--
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And I'm sure young-I mean
young people will always flow
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but I'm sure this coming
generation of young people
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are going to send this world
in some interesting direction.
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So it's their's to
command. And that's--
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And we need the Christians so,
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it's not so much may be
little different for me.
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But I don't think
the question is so much
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where the young people
will determine the future.
00:09:12.21\00:09:15.74
But can how can we insert
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religious liberty
into their origin.
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Oh, absolutely.
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No I think that's
the perfect question
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because it can go, one direction
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which will be really better,
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it can go in
really good direction.
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And so one of the things
I think it's so important
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is that young people in
the west become inspired
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by these young people
around the Middle East
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and the rest of the world
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that are truly
standing up for freedom.
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We don't understand what
religious freedom is here.
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They don't care about it.
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But when they see a
young Muslim that if it,
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you know, it's not about
a matter of faith for him.
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It's a matter of
whether every human being
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in this country is free to
live out who they are freely
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or if they're going to be
oppressed for and imprisoned.
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You have changed my
view of Liberty Magazine.
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I'll do something.
00:10:00.42\00:10:01.48
I have stayed clear of
having too many stories
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because they're interesting
00:10:05.24\00:10:06.30
but they don't
illustrate a larger point.
00:10:06.33\00:10:08.31
But I can see now the
value of certain stories
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to inspire people and I
think we'll put a few stories
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into inspire because, you know,
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just this one that you
are saying this young man.
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Yeah. Amazing, amazing--
00:10:18.94\00:10:20.48
No, there is definitely
a lot of stories out there
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of these young people
doing inspiring things.
00:10:22.67\00:10:24.85
And it will be inspiration
for the youth in America
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if they see those
stories they come alongside.
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And whether it's
liking them on Facebook
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or whatever it might be,
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just those added
numbers of support means life
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for these people in the
Middle East around the world
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that are really
fighting for something
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much bigger
than just themselves.
00:10:43.70\00:10:47.22
A lot of the cynics of
late are inclined to make
00:10:47.25\00:10:50.82
much of the fact that Mohammed
may have married young brides.
00:10:50.85\00:10:55.24
A lot of the cynics that I
get emails from are inclined
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to make much of
the Rabbis allowing
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for marriage of
distinctly young minors.
00:11:01.36\00:11:04.62
Those are really
cultural misunderstandings
00:11:04.65\00:11:07.68
that we should
better leave alone.
00:11:07.71\00:11:09.57
What I find in studying
history is that over and over
00:11:09.60\00:11:13.98
the people have made
a difference in history.
00:11:14.01\00:11:16.50
The people that have
made a difference in religion
00:11:16.53\00:11:19.37
and let's be more
specific in Christianity,
00:11:19.40\00:11:21.94
where young
people those disciples
00:11:21.97\00:11:24.79
that followed Jesus
were invariably young men.
00:11:24.82\00:11:28.23
Those missionaries that went out
00:11:28.26\00:11:30.46
in the early
days of Christianity
00:11:30.49\00:11:32.06
were invariably young people
and they made a difference.
00:11:32.09\00:11:36.31
And somehow those of us
who're little bit older to see
00:11:36.34\00:11:39.71
the value of religious freedom
and what needs to be done,
00:11:39.74\00:11:42.97
have to communicate to
young people the burning
00:11:43.00\00:11:46.66
need for them to act
00:11:46.69\00:11:48.38
because young
people do have the energy.
00:11:48.41\00:11:50.71
Young people do
have the idealism.
00:11:50.74\00:11:53.38
And as Jesus said
speaking to the Pharisees
00:11:53.41\00:11:56.53
''the world
belongs to the young."
00:11:56.56\00:12:01.52
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:01.55\00:12:04.72