Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with, Tina Ramirez,
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we were talking about the
plight of number of refugees
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but particularly from Iraq
and particularly Christians
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but some other minorities.
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As they try to come
here they're ironically
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because of the PATRIOT
Act being sort of mixed up
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with those with the
terrorist background.
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Yeah, it's an unfortunate
that our refugee process created
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this ambiguous standard debars
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the very people it
was intended to protect.
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Yeah. So in 2007 actually
in order to fix this problem
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because it didn't just
affect Iraqi Christians,
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it affected people in Burma
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that have been
kidnapped by the Burmese army.
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It affected people
in Ethiopia and Somalia
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and Afghanistan
and all over the world.
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You're giving me ideas,
we could have any number
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of problems out
there. Yeah. Yeah.
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There's so many
ongoing situations.
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Essentially what it did was
it created a terrorism related
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inadmissibility
grounds for refugee status.
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And in this 3rd
Tier triage category
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or 3rd Tier category
essentially what it did is that.
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Anybody that had
provided material support
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to not just a terrorist
group but anybody affiliated
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with terrorist
group could then be barred
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on the triage ground.
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And so I had to
mention, I had written
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in the Seeking Refuge article
about a story of an Iraqi
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or an Iranian family
that is seeking refuge in Iraq
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and in the United States
from Iraq that had been barred
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on the grounds of
living in an apartment building
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that was run by
some communist from Iran
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and because they had
paid rent to the communist.
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Yeah, I mean, they didn't even-
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They had no idea.
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They might not
have been party members.
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They were just
basically communists
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people that hated Iran.
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And of course, you know people
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who hate Iran are
our enemies, right.
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So because of that they
were barred admissibility
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under the terrorism-
related inadmissibility grounds.
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And so the problem is
that this is happening
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to persecuted
people throughout the world
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that are trying to come
to United States for refuge
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but because the problem like
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I had said is so
disproportionately affecting
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Christians and other persecuting
religious minorities in Iraq,
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it's created a
huge problem for us.
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And so people that
really can't go anywhere safe.
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I mean if you're
a Christian in Iraq,
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I mean where
are you going to go,
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Syria, no, Egypt, no, Turkey,
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no, I mean
there's nowhere to go.
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And not only is it a new
society with all the dangers
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there but not too many
can take their resources
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with them so they-- Right.
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There were in the more and
more tenuous social situations
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they move
around. Very vulnerable.
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And so what happens is
that they enter this process
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to come to the United States.
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And during that
the interview process,
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they get asked questions
and part of these questions
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then bar them
from admissibility.
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Do they know? Do
you think these people
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is they're well
known, what are the triages.
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Yeah, I mean the US,
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the Department
of Homeland Security
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people that are
interviewing them know
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and that's why
they send their files
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into this
bureaucratic black hole.
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I know-but do you think these
Christians, these refugees?
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I'm sure that
the Christians have
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no idea how to get through it.
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But if you are a
terrorist or somebody
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that is savvy enough. I'm sure--
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That's what I'm fencing for.
Right, I'm sure that they know
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how to get through the process.
They're the innocents that are--
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But it's the
innocents that are always.
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Stumbling under
these regulations
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but probably if they
knew it ahead of time,
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they just not
say the wrong thing.
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You would be
careful. But just be careful.
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No, never, everybody has to
be careful, I'll not say it.
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Yeah. But so what happened
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is that in 2007 Senator
Leahy and Senator Kehoe,
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a Republican and the
Democrat came together
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and they passed new legislation
and they told President Bush
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and since then
they've told President Obama,
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"fix this problem."
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You've got thousands
and thousands of people
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that are in this
bureaucratic black hole
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that are suffering
enormous persecution.
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They can't get
out of the country.
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They have nowhere
else to go because
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there's no surrounding country
that's going to take them
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or that's going that
will be safe for them
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if they do get there.
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And other countries take such
a limited number of refugees
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that really this
is their only option,
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we're providing life
saving protection for them.
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Allow them to
at least go through
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the process of
proving their innocence.
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But we don't even let
them prove their innocence.
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We just assume that
they're automatically associated
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with the terrorists
and then they should
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then be barred inadmissibility.
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So what will happen with
this initiative, by the way--
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Well, it was passed in
Congress. I'll make it add here
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and I'm not a
paid political head
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but I've been-I've long
been impressed by Senator Leahy.
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He has been involved in
some very good initiatives.
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I think he is an
outstanding politician.
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Well, there's been a number of
really good members of Congress
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that have been
involved in this issue
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but Leahy and Kehoe--Kehoe
is no longer with the Senate.
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You know they were
very instrumental in trying
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to convince President Bush
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and then President
Obama to deal with this.
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Well, basically
since 2007 nothing happened
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and so a group of
organizations got together,
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a broad coalition from the
Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society
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which has really taking a lead
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to the human rights
first organization and world,
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I think world
vision or world relief
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had to go with
other organizations.
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And the Becket Fund
and number of groups
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have come together and
said, look this problem,
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this refugee problem is really
affecting persecuted people
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in a way that it
was never intended.
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And so deal with the Tier
3 in the way that you want.
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But allow people
that are persecuted,
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they have
legitimate reasons for coming
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and for proving their innocence.
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That they have no
association with terrorism
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to get here and to
get through this process
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in the dignified
manner, not one that really
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treats them in a
way that just causes
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greater psychological--
Where they could at least,
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they could, I imagine as you
say when they're interviewing,
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if this came up they would
just sort of you know strike off
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because they dumped up against
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their criteria.
And then they get
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a letter in the
mail. But at least they can
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investigate
further and find out--
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Right. Is this person
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unconnected or connected?
And most of these are so easy
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but what happens is that they're
interviewed in the country
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and then it
comes back to the US.
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The bureaucracy, the checklist,
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it goes this way therefore
there is no going back.
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So really, so over
the summer actually
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this broad coalition of
organizations came together.
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We wrote a
letter to the president
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and we said in light
of the 60th anniversary
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of the UN convention on refugees
please deal with this problem.
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Because this is one
of the greatest problems
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to refugee
processing in the US right now.
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And it's something that
is intrinsic in the fabric
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of who we're as a country
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that we are heaven
for persecuted people.
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And so we sent the
letter, there wasn't a response
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but the secretary of the
Department of Homeland Security
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in August--
there's about 47,000 people
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that are already in the US.
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But after the PATRIOT
Act was passed were then
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barred under this triage issue
from going through the process
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of becoming permanent
residents and citizens.
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So they're not in these
in detention camps I think.
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No, no they had already
received refugee status.
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This is the
absurd part about it.
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They've gone
through the process,
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they've proved
that they're innocent.
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They came here
and then after a year
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you can appeal
for permanent status.
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And they were in
that process but because
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the PATRIOT Act passed
after they came they are then
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barred on some grounds that
don't even exists essentially
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because they
were innocent people.
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So we sent a letter to secretary
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and we said
there's 4,700 people here,
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can you at least deal with them.
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And then can you
deal with the problem
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this bureaucratic black
hole across the rest the world
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as well that's barring
people from coming to the US.
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The secretary
decided to allow 4,000
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of those cases to processed.
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But so far she has done nothing
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and so that was last
August and so for the last
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7-8 months nothing has happened.
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So this is the real
humanitarian crisis.
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Oh, absolutely. I
mean a lot of the people
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of the 4,000-- part
of their family members
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are still overseas there.
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I mean you've got
separated families.
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You've got-- and these
are legitimate refugees.
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They passed the stand, the bar
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I mean they went
through the process.
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It's just because of
this nefarious concept
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in the PATRIOT Act
that has just created
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such
psychological trauma and chaos
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for them and their families.
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A lot of history is
unintended consequences
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and I don't think
anybody really imagines
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that it would make
hard, bit hard for people
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with you know with refugee,
religious liberty issues.
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I don't think it
was anyone's intention.
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I don't know the answer to
this even as I read your article
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and as I read
other things on this.
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It is a hard thing
because in the war on terror
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which I remember
Secretary Rumsfeld
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said ominously that
this would last our lifetime.
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We can expect, you know,
with the bust and bombing
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and so on, the tensions arising.
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You know, the reasons for
this barrier in the first place
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is not going to
spontaneously disappear
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and here these
people are in limbo.
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Right. It troubles me greatly.
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And by the way I
think I had mentioned
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on this program in another
context but I never told you.
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Australia is battling
with this not necessarily
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just Christian
refugees but they have long
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had Iraqi refugees
making their ways through
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Asia ironically
renting tramp steamers,
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you know about this?
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Scuttling them
of Christmas Island.
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Yeah. And Australia even sold
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some of them curiously
to the Island of Nauru,
00:09:04.09\00:09:07.78
$16,000 a person they
paid that island to take them.
00:09:07.81\00:09:10.98
Then others still kept coming.
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So they've imprisoned them
in the center of Australia.
00:09:12.80\00:09:15.56
And they had the hunger strikes
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where they even sealed
on their mouths together.
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And the country
will not accept those
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for some reason it
impressed Australia
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that they're
terrorists and among them.
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Well, I think this
gets back to something
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we've talked about earlier
which is that the problem
00:09:27.83\00:09:32.82
isn't just dealing
with the refugee crisis,
00:09:32.85\00:09:36.08
it's will let up to that.
00:09:36.11\00:09:37.53
And the chaos that's happening
in the Middle East right now.
00:09:37.56\00:09:40.33
And if you don't have
a policy for any country
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in the west that
looks at the broader picture
00:09:43.72\00:09:46.13
of the human
impact of your actions
00:09:46.16\00:09:49.13
then this is what we can expect.
00:09:49.16\00:09:50.94
And it is difficult
for countries to take
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in a lot of new
populations and it's difficult
00:09:53.68\00:09:55.94
for surrounding
countries to integrate them
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in their communities
when they're going through
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so much chaos right now as well.
00:09:59.59\00:10:01.49
And so it really is
incumbent upon us to deal
00:10:01.52\00:10:03.68
with what we can right now
which is this triage problem
00:10:03.71\00:10:05.93
to take the ones in that
have legitimately gone through
00:10:05.96\00:10:09.01
this process and that
are refugees that are,
00:10:09.04\00:10:11.77
that aren't international
security threat in anyway
00:10:11.80\00:10:13.79
that are innocent and they
can't remain where they are.
00:10:13.82\00:10:16.19
As a matter of principle.
As a matter of principle.
00:10:16.22\00:10:18.19
I mean it's not going to
destabilize American life
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and we're running
out of time. Right.
00:10:19.95\00:10:21.28
But, you know, like
Jordan I heard the numbers
00:10:21.31\00:10:24.60
in the millions where refugees
00:10:24.63\00:10:26.21
that are flooding in the Jordan.
00:10:26.24\00:10:27.37
That will
destabilize that country.
00:10:27.40\00:10:29.04
Oh, absolutely. And they've been
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welcoming to them. It
already is destabilizing
00:10:30.13\00:10:32.02
in these countries, I mean
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with Syria, with
Lebanon, with Jordan its--
00:10:33.28\00:10:35.67
So we're living through
a massive historical shift
00:10:35.70\00:10:38.44
in that part of the
world that we probably
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will not see anything like
that in our lifetimes again.
00:10:41.17\00:10:43.79
Yeah and going back to
the comment that the person
00:10:43.82\00:10:46.51
in Syria had mentioned
to me they don't really know
00:10:46.54\00:10:49.42
if they will be
able to remain there
00:10:49.45\00:10:51.28
any longer with the chaos there.
00:10:51.31\00:10:53.04
I think that what we
have to do is really consider
00:10:53.07\00:10:56.98
reaching out to
secretary Napolitano
00:10:57.01\00:10:58.78
and president and urging him
to deal with this triage problem
00:10:58.81\00:11:01.94
to allow those people that
have gone through the process
00:11:01.97\00:11:04.66
to prove their
innocence and to receive
00:11:04.69\00:11:07.90
the lifesaving protection that
refugee status provides them.
00:11:07.93\00:11:10.74
So we can at least save the few.
00:11:10.77\00:11:14.61
Babylon is about 50
miles south of Baghdad.
00:11:14.64\00:11:18.43
For those that are
interested in such things
00:11:18.46\00:11:20.69
and if you're
interested in the Old Testament,
00:11:20.72\00:11:22.50
you'll remember that the
Jews were captive in Babylon
00:11:22.53\00:11:25.55
for quite about 70 years.
00:11:25.58\00:11:27.71
But eventually they had
to leave and they dispersed
00:11:27.74\00:11:30.74
not just back to their
homeland but all over the world.
00:11:30.77\00:11:33.78
Today we're seeing
a similar phenomenon
00:11:33.81\00:11:36.23
after the invasion of
Iraq by the United States.
00:11:36.26\00:11:40.33
The formally well
protected Christian minority
00:11:40.36\00:11:43.67
there ironically
are now being dispersed
00:11:43.70\00:11:46.01
as refugees all over the world.
00:11:46.04\00:11:48.47
It's a rather ironic
and sad statement to suggest
00:11:48.50\00:11:53.45
that far too few
of them are allowed
00:11:53.48\00:11:55.68
to settle in the United States.
00:11:55.71\00:11:57.74
The
precipitator of the cataclysm
00:11:57.77\00:12:00.13
and also a
country that is long stood
00:12:00.16\00:12:02.50
for religious freedom and
had been a welcoming heaven
00:12:02.53\00:12:05.52
for refugees particularly those
from religious persecution.
00:12:05.55\00:12:09.60
We do hope and
I'm sure you'll pray
00:12:09.63\00:12:12.18
with me that such refugees
with such sensibilities,
00:12:12.21\00:12:16.76
ancient Christian
populations from an old land
00:12:16.79\00:12:23.18
to find a homeland, a new
home to practice their faith.
00:12:23.21\00:12:29.61
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:29.64\00:12:32.56