Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tina Ramirez
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000211B
|
00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break with guest Tina Ramirez, 00:10 we were getting into some of the intricacies 00:12 of the healthcare mandate debate that Becket Fund 00:17 really took a lead role in challenging that. 00:20 And I think you've done a real service to our viewers 00:24 to get into those details. There are very few people 00:26 have explained I think as well as you gave. 00:31 So where is this going though? 00:33 Where is it right now for that matter? 00:34 Is it, it still at the stand off or there's some positive. 00:38 Yeah, that's a good question. 00:39 I think it's important for our viewers to understand 00:41 this didn't just arise out of nowhere. 00:44 I mean there is a long process that led up to this. 00:46 That many people were aware of the problems 00:48 that were going to be inherit in the healthcare bill. 00:50 They had warned about it. 00:52 And even several years prior to it, 00:54 the Obama administration had been 00:56 putting pressure on one of our first clients 00:58 which was Belmont Abbey College, a college found 01:01 by a group of Benedictine. I believe Benedictine Monks, 01:04 And so they had been trying to make sure that their 01:07 healthcare plan didn't include contraceptive and abortifacient 01:10 drugs or being harassed pretty much by the EEOC over this. 01:15 And so they were the first client because they knew it, 01:18 you know, it's just a matter of time. 01:20 And so we've had many clients as I mentioned since then 01:22 and other law firms are taking clients as well. 01:25 But where it stands right now is that many of the nonprofit 01:30 cases are being on-placed on hold for the most part 01:34 until the government issues its final rule essentially 01:39 to explain and this is very complicated. 01:42 Yeah, exactly. 01:45 There are things they did learn. 01:46 And as I remember they even changed 01:47 the little of the application and so. 01:48 Well, so they just received 01:50 in April over 200,00 additional comments 01:55 for a new rule that they're proposing 01:57 which was required by a case back in December 02:00 in the DC Circuit Court. 02:02 where Wheaton College, 02:04 prominent evangelical college, 02:06 the Catholic University of America, 02:07 Belmont Abbey College 02:09 were in court trying to get an exemption. 02:12 And the DC Circuit Court put the onus 02:15 on the Obama administration to issue a rule that basically 02:19 fix the problem for these colleges. 02:22 And so this new rule 02:23 that 200,000 people have commented on in early April. 02:26 Basically we'll find out what the government 02:29 is gonna do about it. 02:30 Probably, by August is my guess. 02:32 But that will determine for us 02:33 where those nonprofit cases stand. 02:35 Then, until then most of the courts really don't know. 02:39 They're just, their decisions have all been kind of vague. 02:42 None of them have been based on their merits. 02:43 Now I think that's an important point for many viewers to 02:46 understand that they're all just really being on 02:48 procedural issues until the Obama administration 02:51 clarifies its position. 02:52 And of course I think as a whole, 02:53 the country seems to me that US doesn't really know 02:56 where is this whole healthcare thing is going. 02:59 It's a grand experiment, is it? 03:00 Yeah, the whole-Well, and I can't speak 03:02 the whole part of it but- Isn't it Australian- 03:05 Australians are complainers I think or maybe 03:07 not complainers but they're revolutionaries 03:10 and they had a healthcare system, 03:12 universal healthcare system 03:14 that was started about 30 some years ago 03:18 And it seems to work and as I look around the world, 03:20 most western democracies have universal coverage 03:23 except the US. 03:25 So I think there's a crying need 03:28 for it but what nobody needs is a government 03:30 that's telling you what to do. Right. 03:32 And I think that's the weakness of this. 03:34 The government's too much in it. 03:36 Like the one in Australia, 03:37 I don't know about Canada or England 03:39 but the one in Australia. 03:41 The government is requiring everyone to be funding a program 03:44 but once its up and running you deal 03:46 where the doctorate is transparent. 03:47 You don't really want the government 03:49 whether it's in the sensitivity on 03:54 contraception and so on but on anything. 03:56 Why would you want the government making a 03:58 decision as the healthcare providers do, it's true 04:01 But make a decision whether you should be covered, 04:03 how much you pay here and all the rest. 04:06 I think it's intrusive. Right. 04:07 Even if it doesn't narrowly effectreligious liberty always. 04:11 And the Becket Fund doesn't take a position 04:13 on universal healthcare 04:14 and what it should or shouldn't be. 04:16 Our main concern is that whether you have or you don't, 04:19 people should have religious exemptions. 04:22 And I think there are four main points really that 04:24 people should be aware of here. 04:26 One is that this is just a manufacture problem. 04:28 Contraceptives and abortifiacenits 04:30 and the rest of it, nobody is trying to stop anyone 04:34 from accessing those. 04:35 And we don't really have a position on this. 04:37 Well, we do have position on is the conscientious right 04:40 of individual Americans to abstain from having 04:44 to be forced to provide those against 04:46 what they believe is a sin, 04:48 a core like aspect of their religious faith. 04:51 And so to force people to sin against God 04:54 is probably one of the worst things that you can do. 04:55 We'll never force people go out and kill others 04:57 or they do others that are forcing them to sin. 05:00 And it's a same thing that you have a Sabbath day observers 05:02 or anything else. 05:03 There is a conscientious objection 05:05 that's ingrained in our-- 05:07 the fabric of our society in our history and so really 05:10 this is just a manufacture problem. 05:11 And this is a variation on a thing we've seen before. 05:14 Several years ago, the pharmacists 05:16 were objected to filling certain prescriptions. 05:20 Well, this is still an ongoing problem and we're involved 05:22 in a case in Washington related to that as well. 05:24 I know, I know. 05:25 They can learn more about it on our website. 05:26 You're right, I never felt that it was settled fully 05:28 but it's been-it's been debated and legal work 05:32 on it done for many years, well, before the healthcare 05:35 mandate of the Roman Catholic Church. 05:39 You mentioned it earlier and I need to reiterate it, 05:41 the Dignitatis Humane statement that came out of Vatican II. 05:47 I think that's admirable statement and what I often 05:50 said privately and I think on this program too. 05:53 The Roman Catholic Church at the moment 05:55 is speaking very well on many religious liberty issues. 06:00 Of necessity I think because in many countries 06:02 and as you will know other than the US, 06:06 they are persecuted. I mean there's a strong 06:08 persecution against all Christians 06:09 particularly Roman Catholics around the world. 06:11 But I think the key to how that particular church 06:15 and as many churches involved, speaks to religious liberty 06:19 when-if they keep to that statement. 06:21 That it's such a pivotal statement. 06:24 And yet as I look within the Roman Catholic community 06:26 and there's some disagreement about Vatican II 06:28 and whether they should stay the course and you were debating 06:32 not too long ago at Catholic University 06:34 where Cardinal Dolan got up gave a wonderful speech. 06:37 And he sort of interrupted it and eluded the Vatican II. 06:41 So I could tell that Vatican II is central to this. 06:45 And of course, if you understand 06:47 the dignity of the human being, religious liberty 06:49 takes on a transcendental importance, isn't it. 06:53 Yeah, it is important for people to realize that 06:55 what is that stake is, whether you will be free to express 06:58 your beliefs in public and in private. 07:02 And really that's essentially what the- 07:04 what the healthcare mandate is all about. 07:06 Is do you have a right to engage in business 07:12 to go to a Christian college to really live out your faith 07:17 in public or are you forced to keep it in the closet, 07:21 if it contradicts some government imposed mandate 07:23 on what they think you should 07:25 or shouldn't be doing. Yeah. 07:26 And so the clients that we have, 07:28 none of them are seeking anything, you know, abnormal. 07:32 They're seeking what the constitution 07:33 has always protected. 07:34 And I think that it's important for people to recognize 07:36 that this is really a manufactured problem, 07:39 that it's a new problem that the government 07:41 has it created that never existed before. 07:43 There's always been exemptions for people 07:45 to conscientiously object and to use, 07:49 to integrate their faith into their schooling, 07:52 into their business and to everything that they do. 07:55 It's just whether the government is going 07:57 to force religious people to do something 08:01 that violates their conscience. At the same time 08:04 that they're allowing millions of other 08:06 Americans to be exempt. Yeah. 08:08 And so it's really the government 08:09 bullying religious people. 08:11 Or we can hope it doesn't turn into that 08:13 whether they had that underlying intent. 08:14 But it is, it's already happened. 08:16 You and I probably don't know. I can see evidence 08:18 that they don't want- they don't have 08:20 great stomach for this fight. 08:21 good to me that it will be resolved 08:24 in everybody's favor. 08:26 I don't know. I think so far the government 08:29 has pretty much stuck its head-- 08:31 Do you think they've dug their heads? 08:32 Oh, they've dug their heads in it. 08:33 Well, is it heels or head, I don't of it? 08:34 Oh, they've dug their head in the sand, 08:35 they have dug their heels in. 08:36 And I mean what they're doing 08:37 right now is they're continuing all of these different 08:40 challenges and fighting for an extreme position. 08:44 And this is nothing new, we saw that the government 08:45 taking extreme position in Hosanna-Tabor case. 08:48 And I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. 08:50 This was a case that the Becket Foundation was involved in. 08:53 I hadn't really remembered that 08:55 until I was reviewing something this morning. 08:57 But that's a pivotal case, isn't it? Right. 08:59 And it was determined 09:02 very favorably to religious freedom and church operation. 09:05 Yeah, so the Hosanna-Tabor case involved a Lutheran school 09:08 and whether that school was able to fire a teacher 09:13 because she had violated the churches teachings. 09:16 And so the teacher sued the school 09:18 and that the case went all the way to the Supreme Court 09:20 and last year the Becket Fund won 2011 represented 09:24 the case before the Supreme Court 09:26 and in I believe February of last year, January, February. 09:30 The Supreme Court issued the decision 9-0 in our favor, 09:34 saying that the government's position which argued that 09:38 religious organizations are no different 09:39 than a labor union or an outs club 09:41 and they have no specific rights or special rights 09:43 as a religious organization. 09:45 Despite everything in the constitution it says otherwise 09:47 and that's been protected throughout our history. 09:50 The Supreme Court said that's absolutely absurd. 09:53 In fact in the case that they were arguing 09:56 several of the justices said really that's outrageous. 10:01 I mean in the midst of the questioning 10:02 because they just thought, well, this is such an 10:04 extreme position and so that's why I mean you rarely get 10:07 a 9-0 decision but we did and- 10:09 So we think affirmation of the right of church 10:11 is to administer their own church...actual church operation 10:16 and deal with the administrant. 10:17 The autonomy of churches. 10:18 And what- we're running of time 10:20 but what I just want to make a quick allusion. 10:22 It seems to be in a curious way-its back to 10:24 the original story of Thomas Becket and Henry II. 10:27 It's whether the church controls it sown destiny 10:30 or whether the state is going to administer their business. 10:34 Right, no, absolutely I think that's 10:36 whether it's Hosanna-Tabor or 10:37 and hiring rates of ministers or- Yeah. 10:40 Or in the healthcare mandate, 10:41 what we do see is the government trying to interfere in- 10:44 Very often, very often. 10:45 In individual lives and the churches life 10:47 of what faith should or shouldn't be. 10:50 What I'd mentioned was that basically there are 10:52 four major issues with healthcare mandate. 10:55 of them is that it's a manufacture problem. 10:57 I think it's important for people to recognize 10:59 that the contraceptives are widely available 11:03 and nobody is trying to stop them from having access to them. 11:06 And then the second thing I mentioned is 11:07 I think it's clear that the government 11:08 is bullying religious people. 11:09 When you look at the Hobby Lobby case 11:11 for instance. 11:12 It's clear that the government is forcing a business 11:15 to violate its conscience since not act as though it has. 11:19 It has a religious reason for acting as though it does. 11:23 Religious liberty has always been very important 11:26 for Seventh-day Adventists. 11:27 It's important for historical reasons. 11:30 It's important because of our prophetic understanding 11:34 of what we know what one day happened 11:36 even perhaps in the United States. 11:38 Religious liberty in the Seventh-day Adventist church 11:41 is what gave rise to Liberty Magazine 11:43 which I edit. 11:44 Being published now for 107 years. 11:47 But it is worth remembering and we must remind ourselves 11:51 that there are many players 11:54 in the defense of religious liberty. 11:56 It is not just the Seventh-day Adventist church, 11:58 many churches, many organizations, 12:01 many funds, many foundations, 12:04 many legal firms, have devoted much time, 12:07 much effort and are very committed to defending 12:10 religious liberty of course in the United States 12:12 but even in some other countries. 12:15 Today we've had a discussion on this program 12:18 on the Becket Fund and the role that it's played. 12:22 It's been pivotal in many decisions. 12:24 Some of which people might not quite agree on 12:26 but always their actions as in all of the groups 12:30 that we associated with have been designed 12:32 to defend religious liberty, 12:35 a principle that we all must defend. 12:40 For liberty insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17