Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tina Ramirez
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000211A
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00:22 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:24 This is the program bringing you information, 00:27 news and discussion about religious liberty events 00:30 in the Untied States and around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:36 And I have a very special guest 00:38 on this program Tina Ramirez. 00:39 Nice to see you. Welcome, Tina. 00:41 Thank you, Lincoln, it's nice to be here. 00:43 Now, you've got a very 00:44 unique responsibility with the Becket Fund. 00:47 You're Director of International and Government Relations. 00:51 Yes. 00:53 You know, I'm Seventh-day Adventist, 00:55 and when we have someone from our world headquarters, 00:57 that's liaison to congress and I really see you 01:01 functioning the same way for the Becket Fund, don't you? 01:03 Yeah, well, I have a couple of differenct hats at Becket. 01:08 That's what we want to talk about. 01:11 Maybe some of our viewers 01:13 don't really know about the Becket Fund. 01:14 So could you give a little capsule introduction 01:17 and we'll talk about it as we get into the program. 01:19 But maybe just introduce them to this fund. 01:21 Sure, well the Becket Fund 01:23 has been around for about 19 yrs. 01:25 And it was founded by a catholic by name Seamus Hasson. 01:28 And he believed that religious liberty was something 01:32 not just for Catholics but for everybody. 01:34 And so he wanted to start a law firm, 01:36 the first of its kind 01:38 that defended religious liberty for all people everywhere. 01:41 So not just as an American right 01:42 but as an international human right. 01:44 And that's why. Excuse me- 01:45 that's why you're in this program. 01:47 This program is about religious liberty. 01:49 And anybody that's for religious liberty, 01:52 I'm for them and we're fellow-- fellow battleist 01:55 because not everybody understands religious liberty. 01:57 You and I were talking on the way to this program 02:00 that the young people, particularly sometimes 02:02 don't quite see the need for defending this, 02:04 this very real and necessary right. 02:07 Yeah, the Barner Group came out with the study recently that 02:11 of all the different generations 02:12 young people are the least likely 02:14 to care about religious liberty. 02:15 So it's definitely something I'm glad 02:18 to be here to talk to you about and to share with you. 02:20 We'll talk about that another time. Yeah. 02:22 It demands a whole program. Yeah. 02:24 That so the Becket Fund really is an association of lawyers 02:29 dedicated toward religious freedom. 02:32 Yeah, and I represent the non legal staff at the Becket Fund. 02:36 So my work really isn't involved in the government relations 02:39 side of things and in international. 02:41 And we can maybe talk about 02:42 the international side a bit later. 02:43 But the Becket Fund was started 02:46 based on the idea of Thomas Becket 02:49 really who was martyred in Canterbury Cathedral. 02:51 And was standing up for his faith 02:54 against the king and attorney of the king. 02:56 And what we do is we defend people around the world 03:00 and throughout the United States 03:01 and their right to stand up 03:02 for their most foundational human right 03:05 which is religious freedom, their freedom to worship 03:08 and to express their faith in public. 03:10 So it was just seen that Thomas Becket 03:13 was sort of an interesting story that-- 03:17 He is kind of the inspiration, yeah. 03:19 'Cause I always wondered was-- 03:20 you know was this something integral to that history 03:23 or just an illusion to it. 03:25 Well, I think it was-- 03:26 I think it was Seamus' faith that inspired us. 03:28 And Dignitatis Humanae was also very 03:31 inspirational document which is the Catholics, 03:34 Catholic churches doctrine on religious freedom. 03:36 That came out of the, out of Vatican II. 03:38 And I had a program here before 03:39 about the significance of Vatican II. 03:41 Yeah, and it's been enormously effective 03:44 in the whole international human rights in religious arena 03:47 on the philosophy of where do you, 03:49 where did these rights come from and the fact that 03:52 there is something innate in every human being 03:54 that desires to search for spiritual things and for God. 03:58 And so that's the freedom that we defend. 04:00 Absolutely, the United States Constitution 04:02 or at least the Declaration of Independence too. 04:04 Sort of recognizes this innate 04:07 right of people as created beings. 04:10 So yes, the Becket Fund over its 19 yrs 04:12 has had a fascinating history 04:14 dealing with the number of cases. 04:15 We like to say we've gone, 04:16 we've protected everybody from A to Z 04:19 from Anglicans to Zoroastrians and all in between. 04:22 So Sikhs, Muslims, Baha'i, Buddhists, 04:25 I mean just about everybody. 04:27 And the reason that we do that is because 04:29 if you want to defend the First Amendment, 04:31 you can just defend it for a particular community. 04:33 You have to defend it for everyone 04:35 so that the law itself remains as strong as it possibly can. 04:40 And that's really the core belief 04:41 that we have at the Becket Fund. 04:42 Yeah, and thank you for explaining that way because 04:44 I think I've tried to explain that on this program before 04:48 even within our own church as a Seventh-day Adventist. 04:51 Some of our members sometimes wonder 04:53 why we are defending other religions. 04:56 Why we work with some pretty disparate groups. 04:59 But once you get into the religious liberty construct, 05:01 you realize that it's either 05:02 valid for everyone or everyone is at risk. 05:05 If one single group is disadvantaged. 05:09 And we had our liberty dinner 05:10 that you've attended a couple of time. 05:12 Yeah, I've attended number of times, 05:13 this time I was traveling in Africa, so I was unable to. 05:16 Yeah, so, it was just a few days ago 05:17 with the Canadian Embassy for the second time. 05:20 And we were able to feature and welcome 05:22 the new Canadian ambassador for religious freedom. 05:25 Yeah, this is very exciting that they started this new position. 05:28 But what I said when I got up and welcome people there 05:31 because liberty was the original reason for having the dinner. 05:35 And it's cosponsored with the couple of other church entities. 05:39 But I welcome people and I pointed out 05:41 that we're all, we were all there 05:42 because we believed in religious liberty. 05:44 But just because we're there, it doesn't mean 05:46 we believe everything in common. 05:48 Right, yeah. This is-- 05:49 But in common we have this commitment to religious liberty 05:52 and if you're for religious liberty, we're with you. 05:55 And to me that's not a disturbing realization 05:58 that actually makes us better allies. 06:00 Because if you have to agree on everything 06:03 before someone will cooperate, 06:04 especially when you're dealing with religion, 06:06 it's almost an impossibility. 06:07 You know the ecumenical movement 06:09 I think stumbled over this many times. 06:12 Yeah, and I think that 06:13 it's important for people to understand that 06:15 religious freedom isn't just something for religious people. 06:17 That's a human right for everybody 06:19 regardless of whether you have the religious tradition or not. 06:22 Because essentially what it does, 06:24 is it protects your right to search for truth 06:26 and meaning and purpose and to transcend it 06:29 in whatever way that you find. 06:31 And gives you the right to reject. 06:33 Yes. Any version of that, yeah. 06:35 Exactly, so it protects the freedom to not have a faith. 06:38 Even at least within international law. 06:39 You know more I think more a secular people 06:42 need to understand that I mean as a person of faith 06:44 you don't want them to make that choice. 06:47 Probably it's not in their best interest for a moment, 06:49 point of view of a Christian but they need to be allowed to. 06:52 And way too many countries in the world, 06:55 I know many that you've visited have trouble with that. 06:57 They don't want their citizens to up that of 07:00 sometimes just the one state religion 07:02 or they don't want them to be seen as secular. 07:05 Well, there is definitely a wide spectrum of issues 07:08 that we can discuss here from the most extreme 07:10 in other countries where people have absolutely no freedom 07:12 and they're just 07:14 their faith is a daily life and death risk that they take. 07:17 And then in the United States a number of issues that 07:21 you know while they might seems silly to some people 07:22 are really at the core of whether 07:24 individuals have a conscientious objection 07:26 and can live out their faith. 07:28 Not just in private but in public 07:29 and I think that's really what the main issue is 07:31 here right now in our country. 07:32 Well, let's discuss what-- Sure. 07:35 That I need your explanation. 07:37 I've spoken about out it before on this program 07:39 from another point of view, the healthcare mandate. 07:44 In the contraception element of that 07:49 in the Catholic Church in particular. 07:51 Roman Catholic Church made a big public objection. 07:54 And I have got to admit that in liberty and on this program 07:57 I've made much of the complicating factor 08:00 of taking state aid and Catholic hospitals 08:04 are one hardly unique on that. 08:06 But I thought that muddy the waters a bit. 08:09 But lets talk about what I know is in your interest on this. 08:13 What--how would you describe the underlying compromise 08:16 that they were objecting to, that was been pushed on them? 08:20 What was the treat to their faith projection? 08:24 So essentially I mean this is a big topic. 08:27 So the Becket Fund took the first five cases 08:30 related to the healthcare mandate 08:32 on requiring preventative services 08:37 that include contraceptive drugs, 08:39 abortifacients and also the counseling 08:41 and teaching of the use of those drugs. 08:43 So not just the actual drugs but the teaching of it 08:46 which as you can imagine would not go over so well 08:49 in church on Sunday and then in a Catholic school 08:51 or a Christian college on Monday. 08:53 So there's very clear violation 08:56 of conscience and faith involved in this mandate 09:01 but I think that going back to what you've just said, 09:04 you've mentioned that the 09:08 something about tell me what you do. 09:10 Taking money. Yeah, yeah. 09:12 Well, if we can talk more on that but I'm happy too. 09:15 No, I'll talk broadly but-- I do think--and I well 09:19 I want to rephrase it in the way that 09:20 I'm not totally dismissive by any means of a very real 09:25 sense by people of faith and in this case 09:27 Roman Catholics that are mandate like this could 09:31 put them in an awkward position where they feel like 09:33 they're compromising their principles. 09:35 Well, so the interesting thing about the mandate 09:37 is that it affects everyone regardless 09:40 of whether you take government funds or you don't. 09:42 And so I just figured we probably should 09:45 just throw out that fallacy first because 09:47 it's often perceived or put forward in the media 09:52 that while they take government funds, 09:53 they should automatically be forced to 09:55 the compliant with this mandate. 09:58 But the fact is like many colleges and universities 10:01 that are not publicly funded at all are in fact, 10:05 or not just colleges and universities brother 10:07 non profits or for profits are effected as well, 10:10 so there really isn't any exemption 10:12 for people of conscience throughout the mandate. 10:14 I guess it's probably better to give a little bit background 10:17 so-- Yeah, go ahead. So if you, you was there 10:20 obviously when the healthcare mandate was passed 10:22 it was the intention of Congress that it would not include 10:25 abortion or abortion inducing type drugs. 10:29 That was something about Stupak had intended 10:31 as the main democrat that ended up 10:33 pretty much casting loan vote that moved, 10:36 that shifted the balance in the house of representatives 10:39 that enabled the bill to go forward. 10:41 Following that what happened is you had a number of regulations 10:45 in this 2,000 plus paged document. 10:48 I've never--I've never finished reading it though. 10:51 But anyway I'll do it amidst having read it though. 10:53 Yeah, I don't know if we ever will. 10:55 I mean I don't even know if Nancy Pelosi has still 10:57 read it yet but needless to say 11:00 with all of those with the huge document that was created 11:05 there were a number of regulations that needed to be 11:08 implemented by the government in order to enforce the bill. 11:12 And so over last few years 11:13 that's what we have been seeing. 11:14 One of the first regulations 11:16 was this regulation on women's preventive services. 11:19 And so within that you had a number of things like 11:22 mammograms and breastfeeding support 11:25 and a number of just general things that nobody objects to. 11:30 Of the 10 preventive services for women, 11:32 only one was objectionable 11:34 to the Becket Funds claims and to many other claims. 11:37 Right now I believe there's 58 cases 11:39 with over a 190 plaintiffs. 11:41 So this makes it one of the largest 11:43 religious liberty cases in US history. 11:46 I mean it's massive 11:47 I don't know if we've ever seen anything like this. 11:48 So it's a really-- it's not just something 11:51 that people should gloss over in the media 11:53 or think that as people of faith there's nothing 11:56 here that there's no religious liberty threat. 11:58 There really is something serious involved in this 12:00 and it really gets the core of conscientious objection. 12:03 So what the government had to do then 12:06 was create a new regulation. 12:08 They suggested that they they would be including 12:12 contraceptive and abortifacient drugs in that new regulation. 12:17 Many people objected, 12:19 they then send it to the institute on medicine 12:23 and the institute of medicine was supposed to create 12:26 what its recommendation, what the preventive services 12:29 should include and I mentioned that there are 10. 12:31 It then listed the 10 12:32 which included contraceptive abortifacient drugs. 12:35 There then was a comment period that the government issued 12:38 and in that comment period they had about a 100,000 responses 12:43 from Catholic as well as many other faith communities 12:46 objecting to this one component. 12:49 And really the issue is whether that one component 12:53 which is preventative services involved 12:54 in contraceptive abortifacient drugs counseling 12:57 is going to be exempted by the government or not. 13:00 And since then what we've seen is that 13:03 the government is kind of pushed back 13:04 and not allow religious people to have that objection. 13:06 Yeah, now there's no question 13:08 there's a bit of battle between church and state on this. 13:11 And peoples' sensibilities are being threatened. 13:15 This is a complicated issue 13:17 and we want you to comeback after a short break. 13:19 And we continue this discussion on the healthcare mandate 13:23 and of course, the Becket Fund and their involvement. |
Revised 2014-12-17