Participants: Bert Beach, Lincoln Steed
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000200B
|
00:06 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:08 Before the break with guest Bert Beach, 00:10 we were talking about academic freedom. 00:12 And, Bert, you were, without naming anyone, 00:15 remembering a college professor 00:18 who was so out of agreement with what he had been hired 00:22 to teach that he voluntarily left. 00:24 And you admired him for that, didn't you? 00:27 Yeah, he felt that 00:28 he was not comfortable anymore in our setting. 00:32 And he went to another institution 00:35 and had quite a good carrier there. 00:38 And I thought he was a Christian gentleman 00:43 but he was no longer really, 00:45 a fully believing Seventh-day Adventist. 00:48 Yeah, You know, when we talk about educators in particular, 00:54 while they're often dealing with young adults, 00:58 I think in a real as well as a figurative way, 01:01 it's sort of what Jesus was saying about 01:03 the responsibility of a knowing adult 01:06 in dealing with children, I think. 01:07 And what did Jesus say? 01:09 He says, "If you steer one of these young children wrong, 01:13 better that a millstone be put around your neck." 01:15 And I think there's a heavy responsibility 01:18 on an educator more knowing, 01:22 may be more competent to judge ambiguities 01:25 who will sort of disillusion or misdirect 01:28 the younger person, don't you think? 01:30 I think an educator has a great responsibility. 01:35 The parents have a great responsibility 01:37 because they're educators in the home. Right. 01:39 They have a great responsibility. 01:41 Pastor has a great responsibility 01:42 because he educates his congregation. 01:46 On Sabbath morning, he has a sermon. 01:48 They all have to listen if they want to or not 01:50 and he has a responsibility. 01:52 So I think teachers in our institutions, 01:56 and of course, academic freedom really applies, 01:59 I suppose, more to college institutions 02:03 and university level institutions. 02:06 We talk about academic freedom, 02:07 I suppose, also in the high school 02:08 if you want to but it's not really a burning, 02:11 I think, issue there on that level 02:13 because they don't get into very complicated ideological, 02:18 theological discussions too much more on the college level 02:22 where people are trying to discover new truths. 02:26 And, of course, when you discover new truths, 02:28 they should not be too much in opposition 02:30 with the former truths. 02:32 Otherwise, you have a real problem there. 02:33 I don't think they should be in any opposition. 02:35 And so I think our people have to be responsible 02:38 and realize that if a teacher is teaching things 02:43 that are outside of what the institution stands for, 02:48 I mean, if you are in an institution, 02:50 it advocates certain fundamental views on things, 02:55 and the very existence of the institution was established, 02:58 you could have an institution let's say, 03:00 we're having emphasis on whatever it might be. 03:05 I can't think of anything right now to suggest-- 03:08 On wearing knickerbockers. 03:09 Okay, whatever, the founders, 03:13 the church, that established that institution, 03:16 wanted that institution 03:17 in order to prepare pastors let's say? Yeah. 03:21 And then somebody-- teacher gets up and says, 03:22 "You know, I don't think 03:24 we need pastors anymore in the church. 03:26 We should have the laypeople lead our church. 03:28 No, we don't need pastors. We don't need that." 03:30 Well, if an institution that is there to prepare pastors 03:35 and then teachers say we don't need pastors, 03:39 well, what is that person doing 03:40 in that institution, you know? Yeah. 03:42 You would think that the person 03:43 wouldn't even think of being there. 03:45 He would say, "Well, it's not my place. 03:46 I don't believe it. I can't sustain it. 03:48 I can't support it. I need to go elsewhere." 03:53 Well, may be that's not the best example, 03:55 because you could say that that's a matter of tactics. Yes. 03:58 And that he could start a dialog within the structure. 04:01 But, certainly, if you have an institution 04:03 that's to advance Christianity and accepts the Trinity 04:09 and you have someone that's got a Unitarian viewpoint, 04:13 I mean, they're undercutting the very spiritual concept 04:15 that that organization stands for. 04:18 But, I think, you agree with me 04:20 and we need to tell our viewers this is worth discussing 04:23 but because of the nature of the church 04:26 and of the free association 04:28 entailed in membership and participation, 04:30 it's not really a religious liberty 04:33 issue in structure, is it? 04:35 Well, it's hard to say. I think it overlaps. 04:40 Well, there's an overlapping there. 04:42 There's elements of it but-- 04:43 But it's more-- But it's a matter-- 04:45 religious liberty has to be coercion 04:46 if someone's forcing you to believe something. 04:47 Yeah, that's right. 04:49 Punishing you as Luther was under, 04:53 the bull was more than just bad words, 04:55 you know, his very life and liberty was at stake there. 04:57 Of course, there are some people that would go so far to say 05:00 that if a teacher did not believe 05:02 a certain belief of the church 05:05 not because he is not teaching something wrong, 05:08 he's teaching all right, 05:09 but he himself doesn't really believe it 05:11 that he shouldn't be there. 05:13 Well, that's going pretty far. 05:15 Because then you're beginning 05:16 to examine the consciences of individuals. 05:17 Well, yes, I don't have-- 05:19 And I think that's going too far. 05:20 I mean, unless that person is freely 05:22 divulging their opinion. Yeah. 05:24 But if it's just someone divining the-- 05:28 even though the statements are okay 05:30 behind it all they sort of have a withholding 05:32 of agreement with that and then they go for them, 05:34 no, we don't believe in that. 05:36 Of course, there are so many institutions 05:37 that would go so far as to have loyalty oaths 05:41 and people signing documents 05:42 that I believe this and I support this and all that. 05:46 Now, there are certain churches that do that. 05:48 I don't think our church basically does that. 05:52 There may be a case here and there, rare case. 05:55 But generally speaking, we of course select teachers. 06:00 We interview them. 06:02 So you don't think we need a doctrinal version 06:04 of the conflict of interest statement? 06:06 Well, that's another matter, conflict of interest. 06:09 No, I'm just throwing-- I've had to sign conflict-- 06:10 That's sort of an internal-- 06:12 I've signed conflict of interest statements 06:14 because as being a leader in the church-- Yeah. 06:16 They expect you not to be involved in other things. 06:20 And that's a reasonable business. 06:21 Yeah, I think, it's a reasonable, 06:23 I don't think it's so much a matter of conscience 06:24 as a matter of-- No, not at all. 06:26 I have a business even in some ways, finance, 06:30 and that you may be wanting to make money on the side. 06:34 Well, it's like, wasn't it, Hophni and Phinehas 06:36 the sons if Eli were selling? Yeah, exactly. 06:40 And we have cases-- And we have cases-- 06:41 Someone out in front of the temple with no-- 06:43 We have cases for teachers and employees of the church 06:47 have been having some business or something going on 06:50 that's really in contradiction to their work. 06:54 So I think we accept that's reasonable 06:57 and on ideas it would be the same. 07:00 You can't simultaneously be advancing 07:04 what the church stands for and then on your own time, 07:06 advancing something contrary to that. 07:09 So there's where academic freedom stops and just-- 07:12 what does the Bible say? 07:13 "Double mindedness." You could have a teacher-- 07:15 God's got no time for double mindedness. 07:16 I have a teacher who in his classroom 07:18 doesn't say anything that goes counter 07:21 to the beliefs of the church, 07:22 but then writes books or writes articles which go counter. 07:26 And then of course we have a conflict. 07:28 People say, "But where are you? 07:29 I mean, are you this person? 07:31 Are you that person? You can't be two people." 07:35 Well, it's happened a few times without no names. 07:37 We see it happens-- 07:38 Directed that way and I think eventually, 07:40 they'll make a wreck of their faith. 07:42 But I am very confident that the great majority of our teachers 07:46 are Seventh-day Adventists and they believe it. 07:49 That's what I think. I trust our teachers in general. 07:53 I wouldn't say 100% of course. 07:55 Well, we're not just talking about our teachers, 07:56 we're talking theoretically about the whole 07:59 spread of academic freedom as it relates to faith 08:02 and as it relates to religious liberty 08:06 in other words lack of coercion. 08:08 And I just think that that's a very valid litmus test 08:11 to apply to faith issues. 08:14 And of course, as Seventh-day Adventists, 08:15 we know the final test at the end of time will be 08:18 when a global power coerces to faith, that's wrong. 08:22 Even if the coercion is to a correct faith practice, 08:27 the very coerciveness is what's wrong. 08:30 Of course, it is always wrong. Absolutely. 08:32 You can't, you know, human beings have rights. 08:38 And it's very interesting, didn't Benedict quote 08:41 at the beginning of his pontificate 08:42 in that Regensburg address, 08:44 he quoted in relation to Islam he quoted a comment about 08:49 no coercion in matters of faith. 08:54 The Christian church has accepted that for a longtime. 08:56 So coercion is a key litmus test. 08:59 Yeah, coercion is always wrong. Yeah. 09:03 Because the kingdom is either you accept it, 09:11 "Choose Ye this day whom you will serve." 09:14 It's not you have to serve this way. Right. 09:19 So where do you think we go with academic freedom? 09:21 We only got a few more minutes left. 09:24 But can we simultaneously be in favor of academic freedom, 09:30 encouraging it, and yet reserving a scenario 09:34 where sort of this far and no further. 09:36 Well, the problem is always where is the line, 09:42 the red line so to speak? Where is that line? 09:45 I believe in academic freedom but I also believe 09:49 in the freedom of the church to operate. Yeah. 09:53 And if you have people that are you hire 09:56 to do the work that you stand for 09:58 and they're doing something opposite to it, 10:01 it's very hard to say that they're really 10:03 teachers that we can welcome in our setting. 10:06 So I believe as far as possible 10:09 as much academic freedom as possible. 10:12 But as I pointed out to begin with, 10:14 I think there is a kind of a framework 10:17 and after a certain point, that person is actually 10:22 destroying the very institution-- 10:24 Well, I think it comes back to integrity. 10:26 That he's trying to serve. Comes back to integrity. 10:28 And as a Christian where you're committed to Christ 10:31 and then buying into a certain church viewpoint, 10:35 you want to carry that on and be true to yourself, right? 10:37 Yeah, You have to be true to yourself, of course. 10:40 You have to be honest. 10:41 You have to be open 10:43 but you have to stand for the institution 10:47 that has selected you and pays you also 10:50 to present its beliefs. 10:53 I think back to my college days 10:55 I'm reminded of studies in Christopher Marlowe's 10:59 "Tragical History of Doctor Faustus." 11:02 That's a most perplexing story 11:05 that's come down from the Middle Ages 11:06 and repeated in music and art by other figures. 11:11 But it wrote us the story of an academic 11:14 that was drawn on so voraciously toward knowledge 11:19 but in the end he was willing to essentially sell his soul 11:23 to the devil for more knowledge. 11:26 There are some who think that academics on occasion 11:29 are ready to do that even in the modern world 11:31 to gain if not knowledge then a line of inquiry 11:36 that might be otherwise forbidden to them. 11:39 But we know, that in the Christian economy 11:42 as well as in the civil field, all things are not allowed. 11:47 There is a matter of responsibility. 11:49 There is a matter of reverence toward God 11:52 and respect for what He has laid out. 11:54 For example, it would not be proper for someone that 11:58 buys into the biblical record of creation 12:00 to then fancifully project some totally false view of creation 12:06 and an evolution creation synthesis and say, 12:10 "Well, may be this was so. 12:13 May be it could be so for a secular scientist." 12:16 But such an academic freedom 12:18 is not appropriate to someone trusting God. 12:21 We need to keep our freedom within God's constraints. 12:26 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17