Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Ed Cook
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000196B
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00:06 Welcome back to "The Liberty Insider."
00:07 Before the break with guest Ed Cook, 00:09 we were talking about some pretty heavy concepts 00:11 as used recently by the Roman Catholic Church 00:14 but with large ramifications. 00:16 Subsidiarity, and what was the other one? 00:18 Solidarity. Solidarity. 00:20 And not be confused, narrowly speaking, 00:22 with the movement in Poland a few decades ago. Correct. 00:26 Now where are we going with these concepts? 00:28 How would we related to the big world rather than 00:30 dissecting what the Catholic's mean by it? 00:35 Amplifying or explaining 00:37 just a little bit more about solidarity, 00:39 you know, I shared earlier that he's talking about 00:41 traces back to Bishop von Ketteler, 00:45 a balancing concept with subsidiarity. 00:47 But basically solidarity argues for the recognizing 00:51 the body politic as a unified hope 00:54 rather than as segmented individuals. 00:57 One demonstration of that was in Poland, 00:59 when John Paul II visited there 01:01 and through solidarity they manage to move 01:03 the Polish masses to an essence overthrow communism 01:07 and then the outcome domino affect is that communism 01:10 fell in various other countries in Western Europe. 01:12 Do you think the Steelworkers Union in Poland shares 01:17 that title it recognition of the aims of that church 01:22 or is it just a coincidences? Well-- 01:23 No I would say that it's something that-- 01:25 I wouldn't just attributed it to coincidence 01:27 because historical information and even some CIA reports 01:31 that had now have been declassified 01:33 coming out from that movement of Poland-- 01:36 Polish Solidarity, John Paul's II influence. 01:38 They recognize that the church had a central role 01:41 to play in solidifying-- moving the body masses 01:45 to pull together to overthrow communism. 01:47 Now in response then to your question, 01:49 "How does one see it playing out in more general way?" 01:52 Is that the concept of solidarity 01:54 if it is captured and understood 01:57 and put into practice by the body politic 02:00 all of a sudden instead of having segmented individuals 02:03 or particular little groups you have a unified solidified body 02:07 that can became a political voting block. 02:10 And that's were I think that in a practical way 02:12 if one looked that it, for example here in America, 02:15 you find that there for this reason 02:17 there has been much ecumenical movement 02:20 pushing through the Vatican influence 02:22 through the bishops in America 02:23 trying to unify, find a common platform 02:27 that will resonate with evangelical Christians 02:30 and pulling these Christian groups together 02:32 to say we're a unified, 02:34 solidified solidarity on these issues. 02:36 Which is not in itself bad. 02:38 You know, even in Seventh-day Adventist Church 02:40 in its beginnings they had a moral viewpoint 02:44 on the dangerous of alcohol and tobacco 02:46 and we had common course 02:47 with pretty much every group imaginable, 02:50 other religious groups, even some secular groups, 02:53 even some groups that on the other time 02:55 like the National Reform Movement 02:58 were pushing for a Sunday law 02:59 which was antithetical to our beliefs. 03:01 So not all of this is bad that they quite-- 03:04 maybe none of it's bad, 03:06 but as far as the discussing point, 03:09 I think it's worth us recognizing they may be 03:11 a comprehensive theory behind these actions. 03:14 Yeah, there in another words, there is bigger picture 03:16 of the two concepts themselves. 03:18 And I would say that, that is an accurate understanding 03:21 because when we balance the concepts of subsidiarity 03:24 and solidarity, we find that's subsidiarity 03:27 in the current context argues that federal government 03:30 needs to recognize the role of religion or the church 03:33 and basically give it more freedom 03:35 to fulfill its mission. 03:37 You combine solidarity with that and all of the sudden 03:40 you develop a political block, a voting block 03:43 that as the church is evangelizing, 03:46 Christianizing society, 03:47 you will find a galvanizing effect taking place 03:50 overtime in the decades to come 03:52 for all of sudden you've got a majority-- 03:54 Yeah a majority of Christians 03:56 that are now voting and putting Christians into office, 03:59 that are conservative 04:00 and all of sudden instead of federal government 04:01 being here and the church down here 04:03 you find the balance going this way. 04:05 And you see this overall dynamic 04:08 which I've already said, it is not bad but it's strategy? 04:12 Do you see it as explaining 04:15 what clearly is happened in the United States? 04:19 Well, it's clearly happened but it is to introduce 04:22 well I say has happened, during the recent primary-- 04:25 republican primaries, Senator Santorum 04:28 made a lot of headlines 04:29 by saying that Protestantism in America is absent. 04:34 And he is correct but it bothered people 04:36 the way is said it, the Roman Catholic, 04:38 very openly, aggressively 04:40 Roman Catholic candidate saying that. 04:43 And maybe for the one of the few times in recent history 04:46 people sort of looked around-- 04:47 what was it 6 or 7 Supreme Court Justices are Roman Catholic. 04:51 Almost every major position I noticed lately 04:54 the Roman Catholics are moving into them. 04:56 Now that's not a wrong thing. 04:59 I've told people at meetings are attend, 05:01 that actually vindicates the US constitution 05:03 because there's no religious test for public office. 05:06 There's not a wrong thing, but is it an outgrowth 05:10 of a concerted effort to encourage and to place 05:15 Roman Catholics in influential positions 05:17 to further this bigger-- You know, I think it-- 05:21 Is it cause and effect or just a byproduct? 05:24 I think that we always need to-- 05:26 when addressing issues of this type. 05:27 They're trying to analyze a current time period, 05:30 it's very important for us to understand is that 05:32 the church is always made this statement 05:34 that she can bide her time because time is on her side. 05:38 And so we tend look at things-- 05:40 you know, right now in this year 05:42 or the next 5 years or 5 years prior to now 05:45 and the next five years in the future. 05:47 The church can actually step back and say, 05:49 "We look in terms of decades and centuries." 05:52 And so based on-- Which is the good picture to take. 05:54 I mean, way too many of the politicians 05:58 in the United States through at the quick fix. 05:59 You know, they will promise things in the current 06:01 presidential election that might be even like a drug, 06:07 you know, nice response to the country. 06:11 But the huge issues might even made worst by it. 06:15 And we're creating a situation where very few people 06:17 in politics can afford to work to the long goal. 06:21 But an organization like the Catholic Church, 06:23 yes, I think they've adopted that view point 06:25 and there's lot to recommend it. 06:27 And so coming back to that then the issue-- 06:29 the concepts of subsidiarity and solidarity 06:32 how they play out over time, is certainly those are concept 06:35 that when they are introduce into the body politic, 06:38 it produces-- a nature result of that 06:41 is produces a shift in power structures. 06:44 And when that comes down to the aspect of religious freedom, 06:48 how that plays out basically is that you find that 06:51 the church is given more liberty to evangelize society. 06:54 You find that the society becomes 06:56 Re-Christianized and therefore that-- 06:58 Which is good. Yes, yes, yes. 07:01 The only challenge there was the-- 07:03 if there is more of the majority of the population 07:05 is becoming Christian and they go into the office, 07:07 not understanding that they should have 07:09 a secular role to play but a religious role 07:12 and then you find government be cooperating by-- 07:13 So what's you're saying is that it's dangerous 07:15 for the separation of church and state 07:16 which is the bedrock 07:18 of religious freedom in the United States. 07:20 And those are some concepts in my book 07:21 that I bring out, you know, dealing with that interaction 07:24 of how those concepts play out in society. 07:26 And here in America in particular 07:28 there was a book in 2010 07:29 that was supposed to have been published, 07:31 called "How Roman Catholicism became the dominant religion 07:34 in America" by Timothy Bottoms. 07:36 And it was withdrawn from publication for whatever reason. 07:41 So anyway that reflects some of the current dynamic in America, 07:44 roughly 24% of the population, 07:46 one fourth are identified as Roman Catholic's. 07:49 Not all of them line up with Roman Catholic teachings yet. 07:52 But bishops are current working to get them-- 07:54 you know, on the issue of religious freedom 07:56 here in America currently where they've argued 07:58 that the Obama administration is restricting 08:00 the religious freedom of Catholics-- 08:02 We have another program on that because I don't think-- 08:05 it's not clear as they say, but that's the battle cry. 08:08 And what you're find though is that 08:10 currently Roman Catholics-- initially they did not identify 08:14 directly with the bishops claims on that 08:17 and there was around 42% that supported them. 08:21 Now that is-- Increasing, is it? 08:23 Yes, well, there's 56% now if the Catholic population 08:26 in America that support the bishops in that position. 08:28 Now the story of Romaic Catholicism 08:30 in the United States is an interesting story to me. 08:32 And on one level that absolutely vindicates 08:35 the openness of the United States to all religions. 08:39 Although it's not a consistent openness 08:42 because in the early days of the United States 08:44 there was vicious bigoted Anti-Catholicism, 08:48 violent, many, many times and I think I've said 08:51 on this program the Ku Klux Klan 08:53 didn't just lynch African-Americans, 08:56 they killed whenever they could get on to them-- 09:00 Catholics because they believed in a white Protestant America. 09:04 And so the United States was once aggressively Protestant. 09:09 The aggression died away and as a central part of that 09:13 the doctrinal awareness of Protestantism is died away. 09:17 And emerging from that is this incredibly 09:20 strong self-assured Roman Catholic-- 09:24 still a minority but it's to be reckoned with. 09:27 And they're not culpable for that at all. 09:29 I think, actually, more power to them. 09:32 But I think--let me talk about Religious Liberty. 09:35 We need to see some of these structural dynamics 09:37 and there are certain assumptions 09:39 of Roman Catholicism-- not the same as 09:41 they were in the middle ages. 09:43 But at root-- as you explain that well, 09:45 I think, hold a certain-- And these through-- 09:50 Led to the separation of church and state. 09:52 Concerns in the mind of people-- Yes. 09:53 And the answer is not to become anti-catholic. 09:56 I mean, this would be bad program 09:59 if we were suggesting that. 10:00 But to realize the dynamics at play 10:02 and I think religion needs to be reinstated 10:04 to its proper role in the society and the home. 10:08 Not in the state and as sanctorum implied Protestantism 10:13 needs to become more self aware 10:15 and not just think it's a political alliance 10:17 or antagonism but be a practicing Protestant. 10:20 And then you know, we can continue 10:22 in a satisfactory manner. Correct. 10:25 But, I don't know if you have a summation 10:28 or I've held forth a little bit. 10:30 I think that, that's an accurate kind of an overview 10:33 of things and based on that, 10:35 you know, solidarity and subsidiary 10:38 certainly as conceptual ideas 10:41 introduced into society allow for, overtime, 10:45 the repositioning of the church in relation to the state. 10:48 And in essence it allows, over time will allow, 10:51 the church to become the dominant force in society. 10:56 I've lived long enough in the United States 10:58 to see it morph from the unquestioned 11:01 superpower of the immediate post World War II era. 11:04 To allow the shaky hegemon have led 11:07 where different wars have dissipated us financially. 11:11 But still, the average person says, 11:13 "We are the superpower of the world." 11:16 I'm not so much willing to question that but I do know, 11:19 from personal observation, that uncertain is set in 11:23 and it's replace by a little overreach. 11:26 Drawing a parallel to church dynamics it seems to me, also, 11:31 that the Roman Catholic Church 11:32 throughout the long years of the middle ages, 11:35 stretching backs to the decline of the Roman Empire, 11:39 that that religious entity is become 11:41 used to being the religious hegemon. 11:43 It must be difficult even in a post Vatican II era 11:48 to accept the real world dynamic between church and state. 11:53 So it's not surprising to see reiterated 11:57 the views of subsidiarity which really cloak 12:00 what is always being felt that the church 12:02 was superior to the state and when push comes to shove 12:05 may actually be able to determine state civil policy. 12:11 This is an interesting dynamic and we will see from prophecy 12:15 and from current events where it leads us. 12:18 For "Liberty Insider" this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17