Welcome back to
"The Liberty Insider."
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Before the break
with guest Ed Cook,
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we were talking about
some pretty heavy concepts
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as used recently by
the Roman Catholic Church
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but with large ramifications.
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Subsidiarity, and
what was the other one?
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Solidarity. Solidarity.
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And not be
confused, narrowly speaking,
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with the movement in Poland
a few decades ago. Correct.
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Now where are we
going with these concepts?
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How would we related to
the big world rather than
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dissecting what the
Catholic's mean by it?
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Amplifying or explaining
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just a little bit
more about solidarity,
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you know, I shared
earlier that he's talking about
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traces back to
Bishop von Ketteler,
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a balancing
concept with subsidiarity.
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But basically solidarity
argues for the recognizing
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the body politic
as a unified hope
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rather than as
segmented individuals.
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One demonstration
of that was in Poland,
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when John Paul II visited there
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and through
solidarity they manage to move
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the Polish masses to an
essence overthrow communism
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and then the outcome
domino affect is that communism
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fell in various other
countries in Western Europe.
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Do you think the Steelworkers
Union in Poland shares
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that title it recognition
of the aims of that church
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or is it just a
coincidences? Well--
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No I would say that
it's something that--
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I wouldn't just
attributed it to coincidence
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because historical information
and even some CIA reports
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that had now
have been declassified
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coming out from
that movement of Poland--
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Polish Solidarity,
John Paul's II influence.
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They recognize that the
church had a central role
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to play in solidifying--
moving the body masses
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to pull together to
overthrow communism.
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Now in response
then to your question,
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"How does one see it playing
out in more general way?"
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Is that the
concept of solidarity
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if it is captured and understood
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and put into
practice by the body politic
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all of a sudden instead of
having segmented individuals
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or particular little groups you
have a unified solidified body
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that can became a
political voting block.
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And that's were I
think that in a practical way
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if one looked that it,
for example here in America,
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you find that
there for this reason
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there has been
much ecumenical movement
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pushing through
the Vatican influence
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through the bishops in America
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trying to unify,
find a common platform
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that will resonate
with evangelical Christians
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and pulling these
Christian groups together
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to say we're a unified,
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solidified
solidarity on these issues.
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Which is not in itself bad.
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You know, even in
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in its beginnings
they had a moral viewpoint
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on the dangerous
of alcohol and tobacco
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and we had common course
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with pretty much
every group imaginable,
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other religious groups,
even some secular groups,
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even some groups
that on the other time
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like the
National Reform Movement
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were pushing for a Sunday law
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which was
antithetical to our beliefs.
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So not all of this
is bad that they quite--
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maybe none of it's bad,
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but as far as
the discussing point,
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I think it's worth us
recognizing they may be
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a comprehensive
theory behind these actions.
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Yeah, there in another
words, there is bigger picture
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of the two concepts themselves.
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And I would say that, that
is an accurate understanding
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because when we balance
the concepts of subsidiarity
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and solidarity, we
find that's subsidiarity
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in the current context
argues that federal government
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needs to recognize the
role of religion or the church
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and basically
give it more freedom
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to fulfill its mission.
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You combine solidarity
with that and all of the sudden
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you develop a
political block, a voting block
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that as the
church is evangelizing,
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Christianizing society,
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you will find a
galvanizing effect taking place
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overtime in the decades to come
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for all of sudden
you've got a majority--
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Yeah a majority of Christians
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that are now voting and
putting Christians into office,
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that are conservative
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and all of sudden
instead of federal government
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being here and
the church down here
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you find the
balance going this way.
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And you see this overall dynamic
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which I've already said, it
is not bad but it's strategy?
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Do you see it as explaining
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what clearly is
happened in the United States?
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Well, it's clearly
happened but it is to introduce
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well I say has happened,
during the recent primary--
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republican
primaries, Senator Santorum
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made a lot of headlines
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by saying that Protestantism
in America is absent.
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And he is correct
but it bothered people
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the way is said
it, the Roman Catholic,
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very openly, aggressively
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Roman Catholic
candidate saying that.
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And maybe for the one of
the few times in recent history
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people sort of looked around--
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what was it 6 or 7 Supreme Court
Justices are Roman Catholic.
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Almost every major
position I noticed lately
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the Roman Catholics
are moving into them.
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Now that's not a wrong thing.
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I've told people at
meetings are attend,
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that actually
vindicates the US constitution
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because there's no religious
test for public office.
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There's not a wrong
thing, but is it an outgrowth
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of a concerted effort
to encourage and to place
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Roman Catholics in
influential positions
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to further this
bigger-- You know, I think it--
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Is it cause and
effect or just a byproduct?
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I think that we always need to--
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when addressing
issues of this type.
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They're trying to
analyze a current time period,
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it's very important for
us to understand is that
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the church is
always made this statement
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that she can bide her time
because time is on her side.
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And so we tend look at things--
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you know, right now in this year
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or the next 5 years
or 5 years prior to now
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and the next five
years in the future.
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The church can
actually step back and say,
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"We look in terms of
decades and centuries."
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And so based on-- Which
is the good picture to take.
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I mean, way too
many of the politicians
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in the United States
through at the quick fix.
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You know, they will
promise things in the current
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presidential election
that might be even like a drug,
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you know, nice
response to the country.
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But the huge issues
might even made worst by it.
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And we're creating a
situation where very few people
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in politics can afford
to work to the long goal.
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But an organization
like the Catholic Church,
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yes, I think they've
adopted that view point
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and there's lot to recommend it.
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And so coming back
to that then the issue--
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the concepts of
subsidiarity and solidarity
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how they play out over time,
is certainly those are concept
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that when they are
introduce into the body politic,
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it produces-- a
nature result of that
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is produces a shift
in power structures.
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And when that comes down to
the aspect of religious freedom,
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how that plays out
basically is that you find that
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the church is given more
liberty to evangelize society.
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You find that
the society becomes
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Re-Christianized
and therefore that--
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Which is good. Yes, yes, yes.
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The only
challenge there was the--
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if there is more of the
majority of the population
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is becoming Christian
and they go into the office,
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not understanding
that they should have
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a secular role to
play but a religious role
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and then you find
government be cooperating by--
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So what's you're
saying is that it's dangerous
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for the separation
of church and state
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which is the bedrock
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of religious freedom
in the United States.
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And those are some
concepts in my book
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that I bring out, you know,
dealing with that interaction
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of how those
concepts play out in society.
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And here in
America in particular
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there was a book in 2010
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that was supposed
to have been published,
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called "How Roman Catholicism
became the dominant religion
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in America" by Timothy Bottoms.
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And it was withdrawn from
publication for whatever reason.
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So anyway that reflects some of
the current dynamic in America,
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roughly 24% of the population,
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one fourth are
identified as Roman Catholic's.
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Not all of them line up with
Roman Catholic teachings yet.
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But bishops are
current working to get them--
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you know, on the
issue of religious freedom
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here in America
currently where they've argued
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that the Obama
administration is restricting
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the religious
freedom of Catholics--
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We have another program on
that because I don't think--
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it's not clear as they
say, but that's the battle cry.
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And what you're
find though is that
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currently Roman Catholics--
initially they did not identify
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directly with the
bishops claims on that
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and there was around
42% that supported them.
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Now that is-- Increasing, is it?
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Yes, well, there's 56%
now if the Catholic population
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in America that support
the bishops in that position.
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Now the story of
Romaic Catholicism
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in the United States is
an interesting story to me.
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And on one level
that absolutely vindicates
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the openness of the
United States to all religions.
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Although it's not
a consistent openness
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because in the early
days of the United States
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there was vicious
bigoted Anti-Catholicism,
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violent, many, many
times and I think I've said
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on this program the Ku Klux Klan
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didn't just lynch
African-Americans,
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they killed whenever
they could get on to them--
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Catholics because they believed
in a white Protestant America.
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And so the United States was
once aggressively Protestant.
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The aggression died away
and as a central part of that
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the doctrinal awareness of
Protestantism is died away.
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And emerging from
that is this incredibly
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strong
self-assured Roman Catholic--
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still a minority but
it's to be reckoned with.
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And they're not
culpable for that at all.
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I think, actually,
more power to them.
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But I think--let me
talk about Religious Liberty.
00:09:32.64\00:09:35.06
We need to see some of
these structural dynamics
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and there are
certain assumptions
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of Roman
Catholicism-- not the same as
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they were in the middle ages.
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But at root-- as
you explain that well,
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I think, hold a
certain-- And these through--
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Led to the
separation of church and state.
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Concerns in the
mind of people-- Yes.
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And the answer is not
to become anti-catholic.
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I mean, this
would be bad program
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if we were suggesting that.
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But to realize
the dynamics at play
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and I think religion
needs to be reinstated
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to its proper role in
the society and the home.
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Not in the state and as
sanctorum implied Protestantism
00:10:08.54\00:10:13.24
needs to become more self aware
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and not just think
it's a political alliance
00:10:15.40\00:10:17.68
or antagonism but be
a practicing Protestant.
00:10:17.71\00:10:20.62
And then you
know, we can continue
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in a
satisfactory manner. Correct.
00:10:22.35\00:10:25.05
But, I don't know
if you have a summation
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or I've held forth a little bit.
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I think that, that's an
accurate kind of an overview
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of things and based on that,
00:10:33.77\00:10:35.78
you know,
solidarity and subsidiary
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certainly as conceptual ideas
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introduced into
society allow for, overtime,
00:10:41.47\00:10:45.42
the repositioning of the
church in relation to the state.
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And in essence it
allows, over time will allow,
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the church to become the
dominant force in society.
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I've lived long
enough in the United States
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to see it morph
from the unquestioned
00:10:58.93\00:11:01.17
superpower of the
immediate post World War II era.
00:11:01.20\00:11:04.34
To allow the
shaky hegemon have led
00:11:04.37\00:11:07.36
where different wars have
dissipated us financially.
00:11:07.39\00:11:11.19
But still, the
average person says,
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"We are the
superpower of the world."
00:11:13.41\00:11:15.99
I'm not so much willing to
question that but I do know,
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from personal observation,
that uncertain is set in
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and it's replace
by a little overreach.
00:11:23.34\00:11:26.68
Drawing a parallel to church
dynamics it seems to me, also,
00:11:26.71\00:11:31.45
that the Roman Catholic Church
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throughout the long
years of the middle ages,
00:11:32.88\00:11:35.22
stretching backs to the
decline of the Roman Empire,
00:11:35.25\00:11:39.23
that that
religious entity is become
00:11:39.26\00:11:41.16
used to being the
religious hegemon.
00:11:41.19\00:11:43.72
It must be difficult
even in a post Vatican II era
00:11:43.75\00:11:48.75
to accept the real world dynamic
between church and state.
00:11:48.78\00:11:53.19
So it's not
surprising to see reiterated
00:11:53.22\00:11:57.00
the views of
subsidiarity which really cloak
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what is always
being felt that the church
00:12:00.51\00:12:02.62
was superior to the state
and when push comes to shove
00:12:02.65\00:12:05.36
may actually be able to
determine state civil policy.
00:12:05.39\00:12:11.25
This is an interesting dynamic
and we will see from prophecy
00:12:11.28\00:12:15.33
and from current
events where it leads us.
00:12:15.36\00:12:18.75
For "Liberty Insider"
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:18.78\00:12:23.95