Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), John Graz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000185B
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00:06 Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break we were talking about Bert Beach 00:10 and the history of Religious Liberty Diplomacy 00:14 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 00:17 As you said at the beginning, 00:18 Bert knew many, many languages, 00:20 he'd grown up in Europe. Yeah. 00:24 And I'm very pleased that Bert published a book, 00:26 because you know, most of the time 00:27 our work is done behind the scene. 00:30 One day may be I will publish a book, 00:32 it will be called "Behind the Scene." 00:34 Because you know sometime we don't want 00:36 to publish anything because that's a very delicate 00:39 and it won't be-- one of the best event, 00:42 I have never organized. 00:43 It could have been, you know, 00:45 the top of my career in many ways, 00:48 but we did not talk about, because you know, 00:50 that was not very good to do that. 00:53 Sometimes you don't have to make it publicity 00:57 about some meeting, because it can create problems, 01:00 political problems and so on. 01:01 And in our work we have to be very prudent. 01:04 We don't want to just to exploit event or meeting, 01:09 because it can create problem for people. 01:12 You know you have high level people coming 01:14 to visiting your headquarter or like, we have very often. 01:18 Sometime we always ask people, 01:20 can we publish something about your visit? 01:23 Sometimes they say-- most of the times they say, 01:25 yes but we think twice, and we say mind. 01:28 You know, he come from this country, 01:30 if we publish-- But it's just best to-- 01:32 No they're not secret, it's just for the best interest. 01:34 Okay, yeah. 01:35 And it means of many things we are doing, 01:38 not many things but several things 01:40 we are doing are not publicized. 01:43 And we cannot just, if we do that you know in our work, 01:45 we are not a good really diplomat. 01:47 Now, you gave me a line to explain something 01:50 especially to Seventh-day Adventist viewers. 01:53 The department that you head for the General Conference 01:56 and I'm essentially part of that with Liberty Magazine, 01:59 it's Public Affairs and Religious Liberty. 02:01 Religious Liberty. And I really think 02:02 they are almost two separate elements. 02:04 In Religious Liberty we're actively 02:06 promoting religious freedom. 02:08 But public affairs, it's almost like diplomacy 02:12 for the church in projecting in and diplomacy means 02:16 sometimes it's diplomatic or advisable to vote in. 02:21 It's not that you say, 02:23 diplomacy is not like political activity 02:25 where they say something just to carry favor. 02:27 No, we are not misrepresenting, 02:29 but it's--but it's a low level public relations-- 02:34 Yeah, exactly, and you know, you have to very often 02:38 you maintain a low profile and you have to learn 02:41 how to write a letter which said nothing. 02:44 But still, the message is still strong 02:46 but they say nothing-- Sweet message-- 02:48 Yeah. You have to learn to, 02:50 how to say it when you are invited. 02:52 You know, I was invited by, 02:54 including the top level religious leaders for meeting 02:58 and I did not want to insult people in saying 03:01 that I am not interested and so on. 03:03 You don't want to be rude, 03:05 because you need to built bridges with everyone, 03:08 but you have to find a way to write something 03:11 which means almost nothing, 03:13 but the one who will read it will understand, 03:16 but will not be offended. 03:19 That's, that's a very, very important way 03:22 and you cannot just improvise. 03:24 Its-- you have to learn all this subtle way 03:28 to communicate with people, 03:30 because they have the same problem. 03:31 You know, you deal with people 03:33 who have exactly the same problem. 03:34 You invite them someone, sometime and they say, 03:38 thank you very much, I would be happy to come but, 03:41 and you feel that, no they have a problem. 03:43 They don't say why? 03:44 But you know, they have a problem 03:46 and they have to find a way not to offend you 03:49 and to let the door open, 03:51 but also you have to respect them to understand, 03:53 may be they will have a problem 03:55 in meeting you, because some-- 03:57 So there's definitely subtleties in the-- 03:58 You know, sometime we believe that, 04:01 we are, you know, my religious minorities 04:04 and people are very happy to welcome us, 04:06 to meet us, but that's not true. 04:08 Some people takes risk in meeting us, 04:12 in having their name 04:14 associated with us, they take risk. 04:17 Remember, we invited as a speaker, 04:20 the minister of foreign affair, 04:21 you were involved Lincoln in this meeting, 04:24 Religious Liberty dinner. 04:26 But you know, an article 04:27 just one or two days before was published in Canada 04:31 because he was the former, 04:33 he was the foreign minister from the Canadian government, 04:37 seeing that, why did he accept this invitation? 04:41 And, you know, it could have been a really 04:44 disturbing for him, and he could have said, 04:46 sometime it happen, okay I'm sorry, 04:48 I cannot come, and I won't. 04:50 But people take risk also in meeting us. 04:55 And we have to respect them to understand that. 04:57 That is the diplomatic part of our world. 05:00 A number of that group were very disconcerted 05:03 at that story and thought that we were being compromised, 05:07 and I didn't think so at all. 05:08 In that newspaper article that you referred to, 05:12 it mentioned that he was speaking 05:15 at an event organized by Seventh-day Adventist 05:18 who had very strong view 05:21 against gay marriage, homosexuality 05:23 That's true, and yet the original article 05:28 was intended to sort of through, 05:32 you know, insult the minister for associating with us, 05:35 and you're right he could have backed up because of that. 05:37 He could have said that, oh no, no, I will-- 05:38 But, the story actually, gave our moral viewpoint. 05:41 So, I saw it as an A plus for the church. 05:44 Yeah, yeah, even you know, when you invite someone, 05:48 you have to give him or her the freedom 05:50 to express their feeling. Yeah. 05:52 But you know, we know that we invite someone 05:55 who agree with us on one point. 05:57 It means if it is about religious freedom, 05:59 we agree and we focus on the point we agree-- 06:03 Common course. Common course, 06:04 it means we have to share, 06:06 you know, Ellen White is very clear about. 06:08 We have to make friends, we have to meet 06:11 and to develop friendship with people 06:13 who defend the same course. 06:14 It could be different, you know, 06:16 they could be in total agreement 06:19 we face on this point, religious freedom, 06:21 but they could disagree on other things. 06:24 It doesn't mean that we have nothing to do with them. 06:26 Well, this is the model that, 06:30 in the early Seventh-day Adventist Church, 06:31 Ellen White in particular followed. 06:33 When they would-- were speaking 06:35 and arguing against alcohol in the community, 06:39 the net result of it was I'm not really sure 06:42 that any of our leaders wanted 06:45 the probation amendment, per se. 06:47 They wanted society to turn its back on this behavior. 06:51 But, they were clearly arguing for restrictions of, 06:55 hours of liquor selling and so on. 06:57 And Ellen White in particular often spoke 07:00 along side W.C.T.U. the Woman's Christian 07:02 Temperance Union representatives, 07:04 and along side representatives 07:07 from some of the major churches at that time 07:09 and even the National Reform Movement. 07:12 And yet in other meetings they were opposing them, 07:16 because those same organizations 07:17 were promoting a National Sunday Law. 07:19 Yeah, yeah. 07:21 So, in that area they were our enemies, 07:22 but in this area they were our fellow travelers. 07:24 You know, we talk about Bert Beach, 07:26 which was very interesting about Bert Beach and that. 07:29 You know, in you, how about his face? 07:33 He was 100% Adventist, and people knew that. 07:38 And it gave him the strength 07:41 to represent the church almost everywhere, 07:43 because people have no question 07:45 about his integrity to his church. 07:48 He has a very clear language. 07:50 He was not afraid to say, I am an Adventist 07:52 and this is what we believe in our church 07:55 and sometimes he was a little critical 07:57 saying that, we are not perfect, 07:58 we've also our problems but you too. 08:01 You know, you too. Yeah. 08:02 And it means, I think it--if we are-- 08:05 if we don't know where we come from, 08:08 if we don't know what we believe, 08:10 that's very risky to be involved 08:12 in a diplomatic word. Absolutely. 08:14 To meet people from other faith, you know, 08:17 I think that if you are afraid 08:18 to meet people of other faiths, 08:20 may be because your own faith is not strong enough, 08:23 but if you know where you've come from, 08:25 if you are sure that, about what you believe, 08:28 why you should not be donors. 08:30 Well, you know, and you bring out something 08:31 that I still feel strongly about. 08:33 We need to make a distinction about just, 08:37 projecting the good image of who we are? 08:40 In other words public relations per se, 08:43 and promoting what we believe. 08:45 If you're just creating a positive impression 08:47 that might even be at odds with the reality, 08:50 you have done a great disservice to your own church 08:53 and perhaps to these other people. 08:55 But we need to use diplomacy, to use religious liberty 08:58 and these many contacts that come our way 09:01 to inform people about what we believe, 09:04 so that they know more from the contact. 09:06 I remember once, I won't name a name, 09:10 but there was someone who had a good 09:11 high level contact with the U.S. President, 09:14 and before we had one of these high level meetings 09:18 I asked him, I said, 09:20 does this person know you are a Seventh-day Adventist? 09:22 And he wouldn't answer me. 09:23 I think that's, that's a very sad-- 09:25 You know, some people believe 09:26 that you should not say that openly, 09:28 some other--in our case we're always, 09:31 you know, because that's-- that would be not really loyal. 09:35 We say, this is what we are, 09:37 but some other people have another way 09:39 and they believe that the best way 09:41 is not to talk too much. 09:42 But we represent the church, you know, 09:44 or we represent religious freedom, 09:46 or we represent an association 09:48 which has connection with the Adventist Church. 09:51 Of course, if we don't say that 09:53 we are not really very honest. 09:54 We have to--integrity is also one very important, 09:59 you know, I talked with the former President 10:03 of the Human Right Committee, 10:04 good friend of mine and also former 10:07 of the United Nations Special Rapporteur. 10:09 And I ask him, do you have some advice for diplomats, 10:13 you know, those who want to defend religious freedom 10:16 at these diplomatic level. 10:19 He said you know, integrity is number one, 10:21 and respect is number two. 10:23 Respect other, but be honest, 10:26 be honest because you don't have an army behind you. 10:28 It means you have to built 10:30 authority on honesty, integrity. 10:34 People have to look at you are being honest 10:37 and believing what you said. 10:39 And after a while, if you make claims 10:41 about your church, your organization 10:43 that are shown to be false, then you have no credibility. 10:46 Yeah, yeah credibility is probably the major factor 10:51 in building relation at the top level and any kind of level. 10:55 And also you have to recognize that you are not perfect, 10:58 that your church has also some problem. 11:01 Why you should say, oh, everything is good, 11:03 everything is perfect-- Or the structure? 11:05 They kind of triumphalism. 11:06 I mean, I've grown up in the church. 11:08 And I like to think that I can simultaneously 11:12 have an unchangeable commitment 11:14 to what the church stands for, it's doctrinal openings, 11:17 any other a healthy realistic look at how it works. 11:21 Yeah. It's a human-- 11:24 And you know, Lincoln, as you say, 11:26 we are very grateful to have in our history, 11:30 people who gave their life to defend 11:32 and promote religious freedom for all. 11:35 And they inspired us today and they remember also that, 11:40 behind what we are defending, 11:43 you have the love and a gift of God for all. 11:49 One of the privileges of being an editor 11:51 is that you have a lot to do with the naming 11:54 of some of the books that you edit. 11:56 When I recently read 11:58 the biography of Dr. Bert Beach, 12:02 I was put to mind again of the title 12:03 that I said that should have been with that book. 12:07 It should have been called, give him a medal. 12:10 And I know there is a built in joke to that 12:12 because Dr. Beach has given a few awards, 12:16 and door prizes as someone once called him 12:20 to the different dignitaries he's visited. 12:22 But, he and other religious liberty activists, 12:25 I believe should be recognized 12:28 and one day clearly will be honored 12:30 in heavens courts or being emissaries 12:33 for liberty, for truth, to the very hoarse of power. 12:38 It's our privilege I believe and often, 12:41 as a very special calling for us 12:43 to appear before authorities 12:46 and give a reason for our faith. 12:48 That's not as easy as many people imagine. 12:50 It takes an infilling of God's spirit. 12:53 It takes a readiness to serve 12:55 and quickness to take advantage 12:57 of the opportunities offered. 12:59 Dr. Beach and others have shown the way 13:01 through many years of promoting religious liberty. 13:06 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17