Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
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Before the break we
were talking about Bert Beach
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and the history of
Religious Liberty Diplomacy
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for the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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As you said at the beginning,
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Bert knew many, many languages,
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he'd grown up in Europe. Yeah.
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And I'm very pleased
that Bert published a book,
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because you
know, most of the time
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our work is done
behind the scene.
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One day may be I
will publish a book,
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it will be called
"Behind the Scene."
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Because you know
sometime we don't want
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to publish anything
because that's a very delicate
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and it won't be--
one of the best event,
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I have never organized.
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It could have been, you know,
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the top of my
career in many ways,
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but we did not talk
about, because you know,
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that was not
very good to do that.
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Sometimes you don't
have to make it publicity
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about some meeting,
because it can create problems,
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political problems and so on.
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And in our work we
have to be very prudent.
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We don't want to just to
exploit event or meeting,
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because it can
create problem for people.
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You know you have
high level people coming
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to visiting your headquarter
or like, we have very often.
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Sometime we always ask people,
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can we publish
something about your visit?
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Sometimes they say--
most of the times they say,
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yes but we think
twice, and we say mind.
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You know, he come
from this country,
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if we publish--
But it's just best to--
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No they're not secret,
it's just for the best interest.
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Okay, yeah.
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And it means of
many things we are doing,
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not many things
but several things
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we are doing are not publicized.
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And we cannot just, if we
do that you know in our work,
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we are not a
good really diplomat.
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Now, you gave me a
line to explain something
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especially to
Seventh-day Adventist viewers.
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The department that you
head for the General Conference
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and I'm essentially part
of that with Liberty Magazine,
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it's Public Affairs
and Religious Liberty.
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Religious
Liberty. And I really think
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they are almost
two separate elements.
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In Religious
Liberty we're actively
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promoting religious freedom.
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But public affairs,
it's almost like diplomacy
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for the church in projecting
in and diplomacy means
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sometimes it's diplomatic
or advisable to vote in.
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It's not that you say,
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diplomacy is not
like political activity
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where they say
something just to carry favor.
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No, we are not misrepresenting,
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but it's--but it's a
low level public relations--
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Yeah, exactly, and you
know, you have to very often
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you maintain a low
profile and you have to learn
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how to write a
letter which said nothing.
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But still, the
message is still strong
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but they say
nothing-- Sweet message--
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Yeah. You have to learn to,
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how to say it
when you are invited.
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You know, I was invited by,
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including the top level
religious leaders for meeting
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and I did not want to
insult people in saying
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that I am not
interested and so on.
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You don't want to be rude,
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because you need to
built bridges with everyone,
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but you have to find
a way to write something
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which means almost nothing,
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but the one who will
read it will understand,
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but will not be offended.
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That's, that's a
very, very important way
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and you cannot just improvise.
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Its-- you have to
learn all this subtle way
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to communicate with people,
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because they
have the same problem.
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You know, you deal with people
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who have exactly
the same problem.
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You invite them
someone, sometime and they say,
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thank you very much, I
would be happy to come but,
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and you feel that,
no they have a problem.
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They don't say why?
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But you know,
they have a problem
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and they have to find
a way not to offend you
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and to let the door open,
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but also you have to
respect them to understand,
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may be they will have a problem
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in meeting you, because some--
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So there's
definitely subtleties in the--
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You know,
sometime we believe that,
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we are, you know,
my religious minorities
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and people are very
happy to welcome us,
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to meet us, but that's not true.
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Some people takes
risk in meeting us,
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in having their name
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associated with
us, they take risk.
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Remember, we
invited as a speaker,
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the minister of foreign affair,
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you were involved
Lincoln in this meeting,
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Religious Liberty dinner.
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But you know, an article
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just one or two days
before was published in Canada
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because he was the former,
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he was the foreign minister
from the Canadian government,
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seeing that, why did
he accept this invitation?
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And, you know, it
could have been a really
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disturbing for him,
and he could have said,
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sometime it
happen, okay I'm sorry,
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I cannot come, and I won't.
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But people take
risk also in meeting us.
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And we have to respect
them to understand that.
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That is the
diplomatic part of our world.
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A number of that
group were very disconcerted
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at that story and thought
that we were being compromised,
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and I didn't think so at all.
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In that newspaper
article that you referred to,
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it mentioned
that he was speaking
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at an event organized
by Seventh-day Adventist
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who had very strong view
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against gay
marriage, homosexuality
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That's true, and
yet the original article
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was intended to sort of through,
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you know, insult the minister
for associating with us,
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and you're right he could
have backed up because of that.
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He could have said
that, oh no, no, I will--
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But, the story actually,
gave our moral viewpoint.
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So, I saw it as an
A plus for the church.
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Yeah, yeah, even you
know, when you invite someone,
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you have to give
him or her the freedom
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to express their feeling. Yeah.
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But you know, we know
that we invite someone
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who agree with us on one point.
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It means if it is
about religious freedom,
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we agree and we focus
on the point we agree--
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Common course. Common course,
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it means we have to share,
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you know, Ellen
White is very clear about.
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We have to make
friends, we have to meet
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and to develop
friendship with people
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who defend the same course.
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It could be different, you know,
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they could be in total agreement
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we face on this
point, religious freedom,
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but they could
disagree on other things.
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It doesn't mean that we
have nothing to do with them.
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Well, this is the model that,
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in the early
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
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Ellen White in
particular followed.
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When they would-- were speaking
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and arguing against
alcohol in the community,
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the net result of it
was I'm not really sure
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that any of our leaders wanted
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the probation amendment, per se.
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They wanted society to
turn its back on this behavior.
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But, they were clearly
arguing for restrictions of,
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hours of liquor
selling and so on.
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And Ellen White in
particular often spoke
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along side W.C.T.U.
the Woman's Christian
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Temperance
Union representatives,
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and along side representatives
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from some of the
major churches at that time
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and even the
National Reform Movement.
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And yet in other meetings
they were opposing them,
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because those same organizations
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were promoting a
National Sunday Law.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So, in that area
they were our enemies,
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but in this area they
were our fellow travelers.
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You know, we
talk about Bert Beach,
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which was very interesting
about Bert Beach and that.
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You know, in you,
how about his face?
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He was 100%
Adventist, and people knew that.
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And it gave him the strength
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to represent the
church almost everywhere,
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because people have no question
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about his
integrity to his church.
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He has a very clear language.
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He was not afraid to
say, I am an Adventist
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and this is what we
believe in our church
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and sometimes he
was a little critical
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saying that, we are not perfect,
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we've also our
problems but you too.
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You know, you too. Yeah.
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And it means, I
think it--if we are--
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if we don't know
where we come from,
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if we don't
know what we believe,
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that's very risky to be involved
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in a diplomatic
word. Absolutely.
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To meet people from
other faith, you know,
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I think that if you are afraid
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to meet people of other faiths,
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may be because your own
faith is not strong enough,
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but if you know
where you've come from,
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if you are sure that,
about what you believe,
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why you should not be donors.
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Well, you know, and
you bring out something
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that I still
feel strongly about.
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We need to make a
distinction about just,
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projecting the good
image of who we are?
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In other words
public relations per se,
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and promoting what we believe.
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If you're just
creating a positive impression
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that might even be at
odds with the reality,
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you have done a great
disservice to your own church
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and perhaps to
these other people.
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But we need to use diplomacy,
to use religious liberty
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and these many
contacts that come our way
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to inform people
about what we believe,
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so that they know
more from the contact.
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I remember once,
I won't name a name,
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but there was
someone who had a good
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high level contact
with the U.S. President,
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and before we had one of
these high level meetings
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I asked him, I said,
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does this person know you
are a Seventh-day Adventist?
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And he wouldn't answer me.
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I think that's,
that's a very sad--
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You know, some people believe
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that you should
not say that openly,
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some other--in
our case we're always,
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you know, because that's--
that would be not really loyal.
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We say, this is what we are,
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but some other
people have another way
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and they believe
that the best way
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is not to talk too much.
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But we represent
the church, you know,
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or we represent
religious freedom,
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or we represent an association
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which has connection
with the Adventist Church.
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Of course, if we don't say that
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we are not really very honest.
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We have to--integrity
is also one very important,
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you know, I talked
with the former President
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of the Human Right Committee,
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good friend of
mine and also former
00:10:04.76\00:10:07.00
of the United
Nations Special Rapporteur.
00:10:07.03\00:10:09.79
And I ask him, do you
have some advice for diplomats,
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you know, those who want
to defend religious freedom
00:10:13.89\00:10:16.95
at these diplomatic level.
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He said you know,
integrity is number one,
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and respect is number two.
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Respect other, but be honest,
00:10:23.32\00:10:26.27
be honest because you
don't have an army behind you.
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It means you have to built
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authority on honesty, integrity.
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People have to look
at you are being honest
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and believing what you said.
00:10:37.47\00:10:39.85
And after a
while, if you make claims
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about your
church, your organization
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that are shown to be false,
then you have no credibility.
00:10:43.91\00:10:46.55
Yeah, yeah credibility
is probably the major factor
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in building relation at the
top level and any kind of level.
00:10:51.29\00:10:55.47
And also you have to recognize
that you are not perfect,
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that your church
has also some problem.
00:10:58.99\00:11:01.62
Why you should say,
oh, everything is good,
00:11:01.65\00:11:03.74
everything is
perfect-- Or the structure?
00:11:03.77\00:11:05.19
They kind of triumphalism.
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I mean, I've
grown up in the church.
00:11:06.99\00:11:08.89
And I like to think
that I can simultaneously
00:11:08.92\00:11:12.15
have an unchangeable commitment
00:11:12.18\00:11:14.80
to what the church stands
for, it's doctrinal openings,
00:11:14.83\00:11:17.72
any other a healthy
realistic look at how it works.
00:11:17.75\00:11:21.81
Yeah. It's a human--
00:11:21.84\00:11:24.35
And you know,
Lincoln, as you say,
00:11:24.38\00:11:26.78
we are very grateful
to have in our history,
00:11:26.81\00:11:30.59
people who gave
their life to defend
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and promote
religious freedom for all.
00:11:32.91\00:11:35.85
And they inspired us today
and they remember also that,
00:11:35.88\00:11:40.19
behind what we are defending,
00:11:40.22\00:11:43.53
you have the love and
a gift of God for all.
00:11:43.56\00:11:49.45
One of the
privileges of being an editor
00:11:49.48\00:11:51.58
is that you have a
lot to do with the naming
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of some of the
books that you edit.
00:11:54.05\00:11:56.61
When I recently read
00:11:56.64\00:11:58.01
the biography of Dr. Bert Beach,
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I was put to mind
again of the title
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that I said that should
have been with that book.
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It should have been
called, give him a medal.
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And I know there is
a built in joke to that
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because Dr. Beach
has given a few awards,
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and door prizes as
someone once called him
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to the different
dignitaries he's visited.
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But, he and other
religious liberty activists,
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I believe should be recognized
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and one day
clearly will be honored
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in heavens courts
or being emissaries
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for liberty, for truth,
to the very hoarse of power.
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It's our privilege
I believe and often,
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as a very special calling for us
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to appear before authorities
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and give a reason for our faith.
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That's not as easy
as many people imagine.
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It takes an
infilling of God's spirit.
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It takes a readiness to serve
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and quickness to take advantage
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of the opportunities offered.
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Dr. Beach and
others have shown the way
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through many years of
promoting religious liberty.
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For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
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