Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), John Graz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000185A
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is the program bringing you up-to-date news, 00:26 views, discussion and interesting guests 00:30 speaking on Religious Liberty in the United States 00:34 and around the world. 00:35 My name is Lincoln Steed, 00:37 editor of Liberty magazine and my guest 00:39 on this program Mr. Dr. John Graz, 00:41 world leader for Religious Liberty 00:44 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 00:46 I'm very happy to be with you, Lincoln 00:48 It's always a pleasure to have you on the program, 00:50 this is not the first nor have the last time. 00:52 Looking at you and thinking about what we both do 00:55 for Religious Liberty and remembering 00:59 Liberty magazine, you know, 01:00 I have to say that we follow some great leaders. 01:04 There's been people before us that-- 01:06 when I was growing up, they were just heroes to me. 01:09 On Liberty magazine, there was Roland Hegstad 01:12 and I can remember just being in rapture 01:14 listening to him talking about religious freedom 01:16 in the Soviet Union or the like of 01:18 but people standing for the faith there. 01:22 Another person that I see him now and then 01:26 but the memory of him is just overwhelming is Bert Beach. 01:29 Bert Beach. Your immediate predecessors. 01:31 Oh, yeah and we worked ten years together. Yeah. 01:34 Even if he was not working fulltime, you know, 01:37 that was a privilege for me to work with him as advisor 01:41 and for religious freedom and inter church relations 01:44 and it's also a great pleasure because you know 01:47 being with Bert it's always an event, 01:50 you know, Bert is such a presence-- 01:52 Great personality. Has just so presence that when his-- 01:54 you know something happens when he leaves, 01:57 you know, things are becoming normal. 01:59 But, you know, we know him personally, 02:03 and I of course knew Roland Hegstad, 02:05 he has been retired a long time, not a presence anymore. 02:10 But more than just the immediate human being 02:13 we know they've done a great work. 02:15 These are icons in my view of religious freedom. 02:18 I was happy the other day to get an advance copy of a book, 02:22 a biography that Bert Beach, has written, 02:24 laying out some of the great experiences of his life. Yeah. 02:29 And I could recommend that some of our viewers 02:31 that have access to books published by the Review 02:34 and Herald Publishing Association. 02:35 They should get this book. It's just recently released. 02:38 It'll be at Adventist camp meetings in the next few months 02:41 and then after that in Adventist book stores. 02:44 And I had the privilege to write the forewords. 02:47 Did you? I didn't notice that. Yeah, it was great privilege. 02:53 But what's one of the more memorable things 02:55 that you remember in this crossover period 02:57 when you're working with Bert? 02:59 You know many things, you know, 03:02 first you know it has always been a pleasure 03:05 to work with Bert, to travel with him 03:08 because he has such a presence 03:10 that he makes things you know different. 03:13 When he attends a meeting you know 03:15 things are becoming different. 03:16 You can see at first, you know, he speaks several languages. 03:19 It means he has never any kind of problem 03:21 to speak Italian, French, German, Swiss German, 03:25 English, and so on and so on. 03:27 It means that, hey man, there is someone, 03:29 who is different, a real diplomat. 03:32 Then also, you know, and mainly when we have 03:36 a meeting with other religious leaders, 03:38 you know, he introduced me to the Christian world communion. 03:41 He was the secretary of this fabulous group of leaders, 03:47 Christian leaders, which is a conference, a meeting. 03:50 And he was a secretary for thirty two years. 03:54 It means he got such authorities in this group that 03:58 they elected him elected him year after year. 04:01 And he prepared my coming and they elected me 04:04 after eight years and I have been there for ten years. 04:07 It means that I follow really his traditions there. 04:12 And everyone recognized that Bert has 04:16 a kind of inerrant authority and also very precise, 04:20 you know, when we needed to have a text, 04:23 precise text like a statement we asked Bert. 04:27 Well he understood religious liberty viscerally. 04:30 He didn't have to think about it. 04:32 He lived it. Yeah, exactly. 04:34 And you mentioned all the languages he knew. 04:38 He was a diplomat, but in some ways 04:40 he transcended the form of diplomacy because 04:43 he had become personal friend with so many 04:45 of these religious leaders particularly. 04:48 Yeah, year after year there is a special meeting 04:52 when you have I talked about the meeting 04:54 of the concerts of the Christian world communion. 04:56 You meet them after 15 years or 10 years. 04:59 Of course at the end you're older than them. 05:02 You know the story of the group better than them. 05:05 And of course you become a good friend of every one. 05:08 This is the way we work, you know. 05:11 Every time you become friend with someone 05:14 you have new doors open and which was very interesting 05:19 with Bert is, you know he had the gift 05:22 of being really a strong Adventist. 05:26 When some people say that Bert Beach he has done that, 05:30 you know, I can really be the witness of a man 05:36 who has never been, you know, 05:39 never feel any shame to be an Adventist. 05:42 He defended the Adventist Church. 05:45 Just representing the Adventist Church. 05:46 He represented very well. 05:48 You know, nobody who met him 05:50 could say that who is this guy? 05:52 Is he an Adventist or not? 05:55 They knew that Bert Beach is here. 05:57 You know, he will defend his church 05:59 if his church is attacked. 06:01 He will explain things and he will have always 06:03 a word of humor, you know, 06:06 he had a lot of humor and people laughed, 06:08 but through that he is really a strong person. 06:11 When you're leading to something many more than Adventists 06:13 watch this program, but I know a lot of long time 06:17 Adventists watched this program and some of them 06:19 may have expressed these comments well you know 06:22 that Bert Beach or may be you or others of us, 06:25 you know, they giving out-- they compromising our views 06:28 meeting with these other religious leaders and so on. 06:31 I think such people miss the whole point 06:33 of what Bert and now what you're doing. 06:35 But this is--it's given that we're Seventh-day Adventists. 06:39 It's given that religious freedom means that 06:42 we got to promote our views and that 06:44 we are not giving into some one else. 06:46 But we need to have this dialogue of this 06:48 cooperative spirit to enhance the shared 06:51 commitment to religious liberty. 06:53 We have always to ask what is the purpose of this meeting? 06:56 What is the purpose of the meeting? 06:58 You need to meet people from different religion, 07:01 different phase, people from government and so on. 07:05 You don't make a selection. 07:06 You know, Jesus met people from different phase, 07:09 different opinion and so on. 07:11 You have to meet them to establish your contact 07:14 and to explain to them 07:16 why you're defending religious freedom? 07:18 Why you believe that religious freedom is important? 07:21 You know, you cannot just attack them, 07:23 that's not the good way. 07:25 And sometime people will say to Bert, 07:26 you know, I saw you. 07:28 You were shaking the hand of an archbishop 07:31 or protestant leaders and he said, but you know in-- 07:35 in a civilized way this is the way we say good morning 07:42 to someone when we have a meeting. 07:44 It means we have to make a difference between 07:47 a kind of negotiation and, you know, 07:50 we have no right to negotiate anything 07:53 and adjust relations with people. 07:55 And if you're a Christian you try to have 07:57 good relations with people. 07:59 But you keep, you know, you keep what you believe. 08:02 You know our president Ted Wilson said to me 08:05 several times, you know, make friends... 08:07 make friends without compromising your faith, 08:12 but make friends, it's so important. 08:14 We saw Apostle Paul, you know, 08:16 and especially in Ephesus when he had 08:18 these revolution against him. 08:20 You know, he was won by official friends 08:25 by some friends who were working at the government level, 08:30 but he had to make friends too. 08:32 Yeah. I mean-- You know, and I think Bert 08:35 was very effective in doing that. 08:37 And I know that some of his contacts even contingent. 08:40 And I can--I can remember, you know, 08:43 we visited the former President of 08:46 the United Nation Human Rights Committee. 08:49 He became a good friend of us, very good friend of us, 08:53 and I met him in November in Geneva last year. 08:57 And I remember, he asked me what about Bert? 09:01 What Bert is doing? 09:02 And, you know, his eyes just were like that. 09:04 What about Bert? What he is doing? 09:06 Because they remember Bert Beach as a very interesting person, 09:11 you know, someone who was very free to explain 09:15 what he believed and also time to time to have a joke. 09:18 They loved very much him. 09:21 Well, number of times Bert's come to my office. 09:23 He has mentioned that he just got a letter from one of the-- 09:26 I won't name the individual but their office, 09:29 one of the previous arch bishops of Canterbury. 09:31 Yeah, yeah. Nothing official just...keeping in contact. 09:36 I should say, you know, we met with Bert. 09:38 We met a lot of these people including 09:40 the archbishop of Canterbury. 09:42 He knew him and but, you know, all these people 09:45 who met Bert remember him. 09:47 That's interesting because when you met them 09:49 after you know, very often they say, 09:51 hey what about the-- what about-- 09:53 I said Bert Beach? Yeah, what about Bert Beach? 09:57 He was not everywhere. 09:58 And that is where a fellow Seventh-day Adventist 10:03 I think can be proud that they are representatives 10:06 of their Church who are making these contacts 10:08 at all levels of government and all levels 10:10 of religious administration around the world, 10:14 not giving away anything. 10:16 In fact promoting like Paul. You mentioned Paul. 10:19 I think that was a special role that Paul had 10:22 in contacting government leaders and some other church, 10:25 that was a different dynamic back then, you know, 10:28 he was being handed by the Judias, 10:32 but I think Paul was open enough to deal with other factions. 10:36 And you know, before Bert Beach and Bert Beach 10:39 also was very influenced by someone who was called, 10:44 his name was Dr. Nussbaum in Europe 10:48 and he was probably the prince of diplomats. 10:51 And he used to visit head of state, you know, 10:54 he talked at the United Nation about the calendar issues. 10:59 He talked with many presidents. 11:01 He was invited-- he was a friend 11:03 of Eleanor Roosevelt and so on. 11:06 And he has influenced lot of people after him. 11:10 And Bert work started to work with him 11:13 and he had good memories. 11:14 And it means as you talk, you know, there are a list of people 11:17 who influenced each other and we can continue 11:21 the work God has given to us. 11:23 Well, Isaac Newton said that "we stand on the shoulders 11:26 of those who came before us." 11:27 Well, the figure is a little hard to comprehend. 11:30 And Bert has also, you know, 11:32 we have spent so many time together 11:35 and I remember when he was 70, his wife said, 11:39 Bert you know you used to say that when you are 70, 11:45 you will be totally retired because I need you 11:47 to stay here at home also, have some rest 11:50 and you said that because you know 11:52 the bishops are retired at 70. 11:56 And when he was 75, his wife said, 11:58 Elaine said to him, Bert, now you're 75. 12:01 You have to stop and stay home. 12:03 And you said that the bishop was retired at 70. 12:07 He say, yes, but the cardinal are retired at 75. 12:11 That was Bert, you know. 12:13 And then wasn't it played as Republic, 12:16 the rule of finished at 80, rule from 40 to 80. 12:20 And he still invited, I should say, 12:22 and there's always an event 12:23 when you can have Bert Beach in a meeting. 12:25 What did he say about Moses when he was 120 years, 12:30 his vision wasn't diminished? 12:33 So I think in a good course 12:34 people's energy can stay with them. 12:37 But I just wanted to take that little time to remember 12:40 Bert Beach and what he had done for religious liberty. 12:43 He is still alive very much alive, 12:44 but you know the torch has passed to you. 12:46 And I want our viewers to know that there are powerful leaders 12:50 that are doing great things for religious liberty 12:53 in our church and of course in many other forums. 12:56 We will be right back after a break 12:58 to continue our discussion. |
Revised 2014-12-17