Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Scott Christiansen
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000175A
|
00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is a program bringing you discussion, 00:27 news, views up to date inserts on religious liberty 00:30 related events in the United States 00:33 and around the world. 00:34 My name is, Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:38 a religious liberty journal. 00:39 And the guest on my program is Scott Christiansen, 00:43 author of a book on Global System Decline. 00:47 Yes, that's right. But I want to spin things in a little bit 00:50 different direction than just the focus of your book, 00:53 but I think it links with it. 00:54 You know, as I look around the world today, 00:58 religion, while most people think of religion, 01:01 with sort of rose colored glasses. 01:03 In reality, religion is at the center of all sorts of, 01:08 often very violence social dislocations. 01:11 You know the very war on terror itself. 01:13 Yeah. If you strip other way, it's the conflict 01:16 between a radicalized version of Islam 01:19 and the Christian west. 01:22 How do you? Can you see anyway that sort of link 01:25 this to what you've been studying 01:26 on this Global System Decline, or it's a just another track. 01:30 No. What's happening in the world? 01:32 Oh yeah. Or they sort of link. Yes and no. 01:34 Organically. What you find out is it, 01:37 everything is linked. So- 01:39 I think it is, but I am trying to lead you. 01:41 I think, I think it will lead things. 01:43 The darts, darts are sitting out there. 01:45 But I can draw lines pretty easily on most of them. 01:47 You know, we know, from prophecy that, 01:51 in the end times there is going to be 01:54 tremendous chaos and,-- 01:56 tremendous, tremendous suffering. 01:58 We also know that government will become 02:02 more and more strict and will become 02:04 more and more oppressive. 02:07 And it, and it, then the two are linked, 02:10 because of more chaos, because of more resource shortages, 02:13 because of all of these things, there is going to be 02:16 a very difficult environment. 02:18 How does religious, how does spirituality function. 02:22 How do discrete religions function 02:25 in such an environment? Do they? 02:27 Do they object and take the consequences. You know- 02:33 One solution, I drove past 02:35 on the way to the airport coming here. 02:37 Actually I was surprised I haven't seen it before, 02:39 coming into Dallas airport, passed through new area 02:42 there near Leesburg, I saw an advertisement 02:45 for this community church, said community church. 02:48 And it was immense; it was like a shopping mall. 02:51 But from the banner upfront I got the idea 02:53 was distinctly non denominational. 02:56 It was the church for that community. 02:59 Sort of a structured community 03:01 there like a model construct where they where creating 03:04 the perfect social environment 03:05 and this was the church for that community. 03:09 And that I see is the developing norm. 03:11 As everything needs to be monitored real closely 03:14 just for survival purposes, you can't sort of maybe societies 03:20 feel that they can't afford the diversity 03:23 which is sort of chaotic, that existed before. 03:26 Well, springboard didn't offer that, President commenting 03:30 on that Springboard didn't offer that and taking- 03:33 My game, that's why 03:34 I am trying to. I am not as good at it yet. 03:36 I am trying to that. 03:38 But springboard offer that and you take a look at, 03:42 religions and the societies that they reflect 03:45 because they really do, to a great degree. 03:48 Sometimes you can't tell difference 03:49 between the society and the religion. 03:51 But taking look at that when we move into the era 03:54 that we're coming into now, 03:55 where we have increasing conflict, where we have, 03:58 you know, wars and rumors of wars. 04:01 What is the role of religion, when it comes down 04:04 to societal conflict? 04:06 Do you have a states and religions 04:10 that are together, such as, 04:12 Islam is supposed is said to be or do you?- 04:15 In some countries. In some countries 04:17 And Quran calls for but it doesn't exist in every country. 04:19 Not in, not in every-- I suspect, you know, 04:22 more than that, more than that to me though. 04:24 So perhaps I should be silent. 04:25 But, do you have Christian nations against others. 04:29 Do you have, you know, do we breakdown into sectarianism 04:31 as we breakdown into conflict as we take sides. 04:34 Or, do we try and rise above it and, 04:38 carry the banner of Christ. 04:40 I think that's what you and I must do, 04:42 absolutely they've given the endpoint for us. 04:44 It's an easy thing to say though, isn't it. 04:46 Describing, what's happening in the world 04:47 that's anything about that. 04:49 And, I've indulged myself before you. 04:53 I really see, only all dissidents 04:57 disappearing, you know, communism, capitalism. 04:59 I know in the U.S., it doesn't play well. 05:01 But I think communism, capitalism 05:02 is a bankrupt concept for most of the world. 05:07 They don't envy capitalism. 05:09 They envy stand of the livings. 05:10 But, livings, living, but that's a different thing. 05:13 And I think, Imperialism is long gone. 05:17 Maybe some countries haven't figured that, 05:20 but its, its gone. Nationalism is really gone. 05:23 Yeah. We don't see the old nationalist, 05:25 purely nationalistic thinking. 05:26 And more and more I see the world devolving 05:29 down at the people groupings, usually ethnic 05:32 but that's not as clear marker 05:34 in many ways as religion, 05:37 because, religion goes to how you think. Right. 05:39 That's a thinking grouping. 05:41 And I really think in some ways, 05:43 we're heading towards sort of religious conflict, 05:46 a global religious conflict. 05:48 Well now you know, I asked a friend, several years ago. 05:53 I said, what you think will come up after capitalism. 05:56 And he said, that's not really the question. 05:58 If you want put it in a nutshell. 06:00 What comes after Wal-Mart. 06:02 What do you do? You know, what's the next step? 06:04 And if you, if you put it in such a concrete way, 06:07 but allover the world. 06:08 The Bible says, you cannot buy or sell 06:10 unless you have the Mark of the Beast. 06:11 Yeah. It's basically 06:13 happened in the last great emergency, World War 2. 06:16 They have rationing, that's what I believe. 06:18 It's serious. It's a totally controlled market situation. 06:21 And, such a totally controlled market situation 06:25 is much more naturally evolved 06:27 in an environment of conflicts. 06:30 Yes, but, mostly in an environment 06:32 of resource scarcity. 06:33 Absolute. We've already seen. 06:35 You know, World War 2 was resource scarcity. 06:38 We've seen the oil shocks where people 06:39 have just waiting in the line to get their gasoline, 06:41 that's was the longtime ago. 06:43 But it was within my lifetime. 06:44 It might be rather time this program comes to end. 06:46 You know, we were talking about, 06:48 we're on the edge on many things, 06:50 environmentally and politically and socially, 06:53 and you know, we're sitting here and now talking. 06:56 And, this moment is being now attack on Iran. 06:59 You and I don't know for will happen, 07:01 we're not prophets. 07:02 But, we know where we're sitting 07:05 in the likelihood stream 07:07 and just say in between filming 07:10 this and when someone views this, 07:12 there's been an attack on Iran likely. There will be rationing, 07:15 likely there would be some sort of marshal law. 07:17 You know, most things are all possible there. 07:20 The world can shift like that. 07:22 Well, at the same time, 07:23 what if in the weeks that intervene 07:26 between this taping and when the show airs. 07:28 There is a further financial meltdown in Europe 07:31 and the European Union begins to breakdown. 07:35 We are on, not just the cusp. 07:39 We are into amazing- 07:42 Uncharted territory. Uncharted territory, 07:43 but also prophetic times and-- this is what I believe anyway. 07:47 I agree with you. 07:48 And you know, the interesting thing is, 07:50 we could also be on the verge of a spiritual revival. 07:56 Yes, I was--don't disagree with you. 07:58 But, I was thinking how to say is, 08:01 the catch that I see is just studying 08:04 human nature and the dynamic that we're part of here. 08:07 It's a thousand percent certain 08:10 that there would be a revival, 08:11 because when people you know, they used to say 08:13 that there are no atheist in the trenches. Yeah. 08:16 So you can guarantee as societies drift 08:20 into apocalypse that whatever religious inclination 08:24 they have will be magnified. 08:26 So, there is going to be in that sense revival. 08:28 But, that's from an Adventist historical 08:32 or prophetic point of view. 08:35 That's the false revival. 08:36 Right. That's the human reaction 08:38 even though it's in the context of religion. 08:40 So we need to beware of that, because 08:41 that is actually the mortal threat 08:44 to true religious liberty and-- spiritual self-determination, 08:50 because we will be probably 08:52 automatically swept along as society finds religion 08:57 seeking, sees that as the only solution. 09:00 And, if you don't go with that--that tidal-wave, 09:04 God will help you. Yeah. 09:06 God is the only one that can help you. 09:08 God is the only one that can help you. 09:09 And you know it's very difficult 09:12 to standup and be differentiated. 09:14 It's very difficult to part yourself from the herd, 09:17 when the stakes are low. 09:20 Right now, it's a very difficult 09:22 to apart ourselves from the herd and say, 09:24 you know, Christ is coming soon. 09:27 You need to grow close to Him. 09:30 You need to study His commandments 09:33 and especially something really truly differentiating. 09:35 That will get easier. No, it won't. How can it get easier 09:40 when the stakes are higher. 09:41 No I was just leading you up. Oh you- If it's hard now, 09:44 it's only going to be harder. 09:46 Harder and harder, but if you start now, 09:48 its not as hard as time goes on. 09:49 You have less chance of being swept away. 09:51 Yeah. I, I you know, I give this 09:53 logic all the times in talks, 09:56 talking on general laws of civil and religious liberties. 09:59 Arguably incredible changes have taken place 10:02 in only a handful of years. 10:03 And if that's not enough to stir you, 10:05 the chances are you will not be stirred 10:07 at any future point. 10:08 Right. And so, at some point you have to make the stand. 10:11 Right, continue in some lengths until we changes go along. 10:14 Now we're living in very interesting times 10:17 and your book just was a reminder to me 10:20 from a slightly different point of the campus, 10:24 that it's just inevitable. 10:26 I mean its one thing to say the Bible prophesize it. 10:29 It's another thing as people through the ages 10:33 have seen, when these prophecies come to take place, 10:36 that's a validation you can't ignore. 10:39 You know, we are sleepy and we are laodicean 10:43 and in His mercy if we needed. 10:47 Not everyone might know what you mean by laodicean? 10:49 Well by laodicean, I mean a church that is lukewarm. 10:52 Yeah, in Revelation, 10:54 In Revelation the church finds the different ages 10:56 of the church using the different 10:59 geographical elements or areas of Christian-- 11:02 And in regard to the laodicean-- 11:04 And l laodicean a characterized church 11:07 that was self satisfied, spiritually asleep 11:10 and God say's you know, you're not hot nor cold, 11:14 warm or cold, or you warm, spit you out, its offensive. 11:18 Yeah, and this is you know, a group that's just comfortable. 11:23 And its dangerous being comfortable, 11:27 because you tend to get as you say swept along. 11:30 But, if we need to move away from laodicean view points. 11:38 We need to become on fire for God. 11:41 And better on out terms in the sense of 11:44 acting on what we know. 11:46 Of course, in on God's terms, but we need to do it now, 11:49 rather than being pushed into it. 11:52 And there's always the danger there, the to mixed metaphors, 11:54 you know, the Lot and his family were pushed into it. 11:56 Right. And, pull a Lot's wife, you know, she turned back. 12:00 She really wasn't convicted 12:02 the need to run even at that late point. 12:06 Time is moving by on us on this program 12:08 and I want to break now to give a chance to regroup. 12:11 But, we will be back shortly to continue this discussion, 12:14 a very important one. 12:15 Stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17