Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
bringing you discussion,
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news, views up to date
inserts on religious liberty
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related events
in the United States
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and around the world.
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My name is, Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine,
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a religious liberty journal.
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And the guest on my
program is Scott Christiansen,
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author of a book on
Global System Decline.
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Yes, that's right. But I want
to spin things in a little bit
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different direction than
just the focus of your book,
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but I think it links with it.
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You know, as I look
around the world today,
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religion, while most
people think of religion,
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with sort of
rose colored glasses.
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In reality, religion is at
the center of all sorts of,
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often very violence
social dislocations.
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You know the very
war on terror itself.
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Yeah. If you strip
other way, it's the conflict
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between a
radicalized version of Islam
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and the Christian west.
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How do you? Can you see
anyway that sort of link
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this to what
you've been studying
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on this Global System Decline,
or it's a just another track.
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No. What's
happening in the world?
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Oh yeah. Or they
sort of link. Yes and no.
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Organically. What
you find out is it,
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everything is linked. So-
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I think it is, but I
am trying to lead you.
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I think, I think
it will lead things.
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The darts, darts
are sitting out there.
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But I can draw lines
pretty easily on most of them.
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You know, we know,
from prophecy that,
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in the end times
there is going to be
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tremendous chaos and,--
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tremendous,
tremendous suffering.
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We also know that
government will become
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more and more
strict and will become
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more and more oppressive.
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And it, and it,
then the two are linked,
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because of more chaos, because
of more resource shortages,
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because of all of these
things, there is going to be
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a very difficult environment.
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How does religious, how
does spirituality function.
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How do discrete
religions function
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in such an environment? Do they?
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Do they object and take
the consequences. You know-
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One solution, I drove past
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on the way to the
airport coming here.
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Actually I was surprised
I haven't seen it before,
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coming into Dallas
airport, passed through new area
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there near Leesburg,
I saw an advertisement
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for this community
church, said community church.
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And it was immense; it
was like a shopping mall.
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But from the banner
upfront I got the idea
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was distinctly
non denominational.
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It was the church
for that community.
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Sort of a structured community
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there like a model construct
where they where creating
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the perfect social environment
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and this was the
church for that community.
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And that I see is
the developing norm.
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As everything needs to
be monitored real closely
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just for survival purposes, you
can't sort of maybe societies
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feel that they
can't afford the diversity
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which is sort of
chaotic, that existed before.
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Well, springboard didn't
offer that, President commenting
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on that Springboard
didn't offer that and taking-
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My game, that's why
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I am trying to. I am
not as good at it yet.
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I am trying to that.
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But springboard offer
that and you take a look at,
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religions and the
societies that they reflect
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because they really
do, to a great degree.
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Sometimes you
can't tell difference
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between the
society and the religion.
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But taking look at that
when we move into the era
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that we're coming into now,
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where we have increasing
conflict, where we have,
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you know, wars
and rumors of wars.
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What is the role of
religion, when it comes down
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to societal conflict?
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Do you have a
states and religions
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that are together, such as,
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Islam is supposed is
said to be or do you?-
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In some
countries. In some countries
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And Quran calls for but it
doesn't exist in every country.
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Not in, not in
every-- I suspect, you know,
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more than that, more
than that to me though.
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So perhaps I should be silent.
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But, do you have Christian
nations against others.
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Do you have, you know, do
we breakdown into sectarianism
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as we breakdown into
conflict as we take sides.
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Or, do we try and
rise above it and,
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carry the banner of Christ.
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I think that's
what you and I must do,
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absolutely they've
given the endpoint for us.
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It's an easy thing
to say though, isn't it.
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Describing, what's
happening in the world
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that's anything about that.
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And, I've
indulged myself before you.
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I really see,
only all dissidents
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disappearing, you
know, communism, capitalism.
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I know in the U.S.,
it doesn't play well.
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But I think
communism, capitalism
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is a bankrupt concept
for most of the world.
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They don't envy capitalism.
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They envy stand of the livings.
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But, livings, living,
but that's a different thing.
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And I think,
Imperialism is long gone.
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Maybe some countries
haven't figured that,
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but its, its gone.
Nationalism is really gone.
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Yeah. We don't see
the old nationalist,
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purely nationalistic thinking.
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And more and more I
see the world devolving
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down at the people
groupings, usually ethnic
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but that's not as clear marker
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in many ways as religion,
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because, religion goes
to how you think. Right.
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That's a thinking grouping.
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And I really think in some ways,
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we're heading towards
sort of religious conflict,
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a global religious conflict.
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Well now you know, I asked
a friend, several years ago.
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I said, what you think
will come up after capitalism.
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And he said, that's
not really the question.
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If you want put
it in a nutshell.
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What comes after Wal-Mart.
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What do you do? You
know, what's the next step?
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And if you, if you put
it in such a concrete way,
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but allover the world.
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The Bible says,
you cannot buy or sell
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unless you have
the Mark of the Beast.
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Yeah. It's basically
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happened in the last
great emergency, World War 2.
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They have rationing,
that's what I believe.
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It's serious. It's a totally
controlled market situation.
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And, such a totally
controlled market situation
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is much more naturally evolved
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in an environment of conflicts.
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Yes, but, mostly
in an environment
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of resource scarcity.
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Absolute. We've already seen.
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You know, World War 2
was resource scarcity.
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We've seen the oil
shocks where people
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have just waiting in the
line to get their gasoline,
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that's was the longtime ago.
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But it was within my lifetime.
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It might be rather time
this program comes to end.
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You know, we were talking about,
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we're on the
edge on many things,
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environmentally and
politically and socially,
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and you know, we're
sitting here and now talking.
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And, this moment is
being now attack on Iran.
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You and I don't
know for will happen,
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we're not prophets.
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But, we know where we're sitting
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in the likelihood stream
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and just say in between filming
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this and when
someone views this,
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there's been an attack on Iran
likely. There will be rationing,
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likely there would be
some sort of marshal law.
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You know, most things
are all possible there.
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The world can shift like that.
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Well, at the same time,
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what if in the
weeks that intervene
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between this taping
and when the show airs.
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There is a further
financial meltdown in Europe
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and the European
Union begins to breakdown.
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We are on, not just the cusp.
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We are into amazing-
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Uncharted
territory. Uncharted territory,
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but also prophetic times and--
this is what I believe anyway.
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I agree with you.
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And you know, the
interesting thing is,
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we could also be on the
verge of a spiritual revival.
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Yes, I was--don't
disagree with you.
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But, I was
thinking how to say is,
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the catch that I
see is just studying
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human nature and the
dynamic that we're part of here.
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It's a thousand percent certain
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that there would be a revival,
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because when people
you know, they used to say
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that there are no
atheist in the trenches. Yeah.
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So you can
guarantee as societies drift
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into apocalypse that
whatever religious inclination
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they have will be magnified.
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So, there is going to
be in that sense revival.
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But, that's from an
Adventist historical
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or prophetic point of view.
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That's the false revival.
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Right. That's the human reaction
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even though it's in
the context of religion.
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So we need to
beware of that, because
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that is actually
the mortal threat
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to true religious liberty and--
spiritual self-determination,
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because we will be probably
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automatically swept
along as society finds religion
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seeking, sees that
as the only solution.
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And, if you don't go
with that--that tidal-wave,
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God will help you. Yeah.
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God is the only
one that can help you.
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God is the only
one that can help you.
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And you know it's very difficult
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to standup and
be differentiated.
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It's very difficult to
part yourself from the herd,
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when the stakes are low.
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Right now, it's a very difficult
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to apart ourselves
from the herd and say,
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you know, Christ is coming soon.
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You need to grow close to Him.
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You need to
study His commandments
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and especially something
really truly differentiating.
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That will get easier. No,
it won't. How can it get easier
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when the stakes are higher.
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No I was just leading you
up. Oh you- If it's hard now,
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it's only going to be harder.
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Harder and harder,
but if you start now,
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its not as hard as time goes on.
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You have less
chance of being swept away.
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Yeah. I, I you know, I give this
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logic all the times in talks,
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talking on general laws of
civil and religious liberties.
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Arguably incredible
changes have taken place
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in only a handful of years.
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And if that's not
enough to stir you,
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the chances are
you will not be stirred
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at any future point.
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Right. And so, at some point
you have to make the stand.
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Right, continue in some lengths
until we changes go along.
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Now we're living in
very interesting times
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and your book just
was a reminder to me
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from a slightly
different point of the campus,
00:10:20.59\00:10:24.94
that it's just inevitable.
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I mean its one thing to
say the Bible prophesize it.
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It's another thing as
people through the ages
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have seen, when these
prophecies come to take place,
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that's a
validation you can't ignore.
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You know, we are
sleepy and we are laodicean
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and in His mercy if we needed.
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Not everyone might know
what you mean by laodicean?
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Well by laodicean, I mean
a church that is lukewarm.
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Yeah, in Revelation,
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In Revelation the
church finds the different ages
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of the church
using the different
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geographical elements
or areas of Christian--
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And in regard to the laodicean--
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And l laodicean a
characterized church
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that was self
satisfied, spiritually asleep
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and God say's you know,
you're not hot nor cold,
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warm or cold, or you warm,
spit you out, its offensive.
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Yeah, and this is you know, a
group that's just comfortable.
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And its dangerous
being comfortable,
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because you tend to
get as you say swept along.
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But, if we need to move
away from laodicean view points.
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We need to
become on fire for God.
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And better on out
terms in the sense of
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acting on what we know.
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Of course, in on God's
terms, but we need to do it now,
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rather than
being pushed into it.
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And there's always the danger
there, the to mixed metaphors,
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you know, the Lot and his
family were pushed into it.
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Right. And, pull a Lot's
wife, you know, she turned back.
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She really wasn't convicted
00:12:00.30\00:12:02.23
the need to run
even at that late point.
00:12:02.24\00:12:06.71
Time is moving by
on us on this program
00:12:06.72\00:12:08.47
and I want to break now
to give a chance to regroup.
00:12:08.48\00:12:11.44
But, we will be back shortly
to continue this discussion,
00:12:11.45\00:12:14.50
a very important one.
00:12:14.51\00:12:15.56
Stay with us.
00:12:15.57\00:12:17.02