Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Scott Christiansen
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000172A
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00:23 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:25 This is the program bringing you discussion, 00:27 news, views, and updates on religious liberty events 00:31 around the world and of course in the United States 00:33 where we are based. My name Lincoln Stead, 00:36 editor of Liberty Magazine, and my guest of the program is 00:39 Scott Christiansen, author of a very provocative book. 00:43 Now, before I start you off-- it doesn't take much 00:46 for an author to talk about his book. 00:47 That's true. Before I starts you off, 00:49 I need to tell you and the viewers 00:52 that years and years ago when I was in Australia 00:54 and working on a division paper that came out weekly, 00:57 we used to get a lot of letters from the constituency. 00:59 And for-- I'd say three-four months, 01:03 no, maybe even as much long as a year, we had people writing in 01:06 and letters built on other letters, 01:08 all debating whether or not we should move 01:10 out of this city into the country. 01:13 Ellen White writing to early Adventists 01:16 recommended that has become to the end of times. 01:18 The collapse of systems, which you wrote about, 01:21 that we should perhaps be thinking about retiring from 01:24 the city environment to homes in the country 01:27 where the most self-sufficient and beyond the troubles. 01:32 What do you think about that? Oh, well--- 01:33 Hypothetically. Well, not, not, not hypothetically. 01:37 I pointed this in the book. I think, with all due respect, 01:40 I think you self-pedaled a bit. Because she said, 01:44 we should begin to remove ourselves from the cities, 01:47 And this is over 100 years ago. Right. 01:49 And we should begin to leave the cities. And you know, 01:52 The interesting thing is-- I'll interrupt to you. 01:54 Yeah, The reason I'm self-pedaling it 01:55 and I talk about these often as I travel around 01:58 and after the meetings. I have a radical view on this. 02:02 I think it's almost too late for the average person. 02:04 Well, we're the average person, 02:07 if you talk about getting up and leaving, 02:11 which means upsetting economically, 02:13 upsetting the economic basis, trying to reestablish oneself, 02:17 trying to live a simpler life, trying to, you know, 02:20 can you do that, maybe you can do it if you're debt free, 02:23 which is one more reason we've been counseled 02:25 to be debt free. Absolutely. 02:26 It gets more and more difficult everyday. 02:28 But here is the thing. We've been talking about 02:32 the collapse, the declining collapse of global system. 02:35 This is what your books about. This is what the books about, 02:37 "Planet in Distress." It's what the book is about. 02:39 And we've been talking about how the systems 02:45 that God created that really keep the planet operating. 02:50 The oceanic system, the atmospheric system, 02:52 the fresh water system, our food production system, 02:57 how all of these to the effects of sin- 02:59 And there all interconnected. Interconnected and becoming-- 03:01 It was like Disney on the Lion King, 03:04 the web of life or whatever, God did that. 03:07 And it's a one thing, nothing exits to itself, 03:10 every system it relates. And if one is attracted from it, 03:15 it pulls another down, doesn't it? 03:17 And as they, and what we see then 03:18 is an exhilarating decline in all of these systems. 03:22 You know, we've lived upto this point in an era 03:26 of increasing goods, increasing abundance. 03:28 Since World War II. Since World War II. 03:30 Well, when I say, you know, in our time 03:32 I'm talking about my lifetime. Yeah. 03:33 And maybe my father's lifetime but you know, 03:35 we've reached the peak in a going over and-- 03:38 and this as tremendous implications. And one of the-- 03:44 to speak to what you were just saying, 03:46 one of the implications is, if the people 03:48 who live in cities, in an era of declining resources, 03:53 what you get is people who cannot create 03:59 any of their resources. They can't grow their own food. 04:02 They can't create their own energy. 04:03 They can't chop a tree down. 04:04 And the trouble has been greatly about 04:06 the United States, to be honest, 04:08 and this is where I'm living now, 04:09 even though I'm originally from Australia. 04:11 The climate is severe in places like Maine. 04:14 In Maine? From where I hailed from. 04:16 That was a lifeline. Well, you know, 04:19 when I left to come to this program, it was four degrees. 04:22 So...yes, it's a severe climate. But, you know 04:24 there is fairly severe so assured of growing season 04:29 as well as, you know, the firewood season. 04:33 But what-- I thought what will happen and you don't even 04:36 have to think of the end of time to be in this monsoon. 04:39 What would happen in a huge dislocation, 04:41 if there was another World War? The international trade 04:44 would suffer and the things like computers and that might 04:48 not be so reliable and you'd be on your own resources. 04:51 Well, you look at power grid to get down. How do you survive? 04:54 I don't think we'll set up to that but it's 04:57 the salutary listed to be, when I traveled to Europe, 05:00 I can remember in German cities, in Geneva, 05:07 going to an area like a city park where they divided 05:11 the area up into the little plots about 40x40 and anyone 05:17 that owned the home, had to access 05:19 to that little plot. They can grow the gardens. 05:21 And I've read a lot about World War II. 05:23 Many people survived World War II 05:27 in those cities in Germany and England for that matter, 05:30 because they were able to grow 05:31 their own little personal garden. 05:33 And in the U.S, there were Victory Gardens so called. 05:35 Yes. But I think we've passed that level in the U.S 05:38 that's not set up for it. But, you know, 05:40 it's easy to get from where we're now, from our discussion 05:42 with the point of our discussion now to fanaticism. 05:44 And it's easy to loose the focus and say, 05:47 my primary goal is to survive. Absolutely. 05:50 I'm glad you brought that thing because 05:51 I was gonna hit that next. Well, you know, 05:54 We-- it's we've been given advice for more than 100 years 05:58 to leave the cities but we need to focus on 06:00 the fact that the reason we were given 06:02 that advice was so that we could 06:04 be continue to be an effective witness 06:06 and not get caught up in the chaos. A city - 06:09 And now we can create our own chaos by living precipitously. 06:12 Don't you believe that? Well, not so much that. 06:14 It could be a personal disaster. It must be prayerful. 06:18 I mean, we should all be let of God in everything that we do. 06:22 And we should absolutely take this up in prayer. 06:24 Any big move should not be made on what appears to be. 06:27 You know, my great grandmother was convinced 06:29 Christ was coming in her lifetime. 06:31 My grandmother the same. They're both dead and buried. 06:33 I believe Christis coming in my lifetime on the basis of 06:36 different evidence. The evidence we see now. 06:38 Yeah, I agree. But time may go on and I could be wrong. 06:41 The moves that we make, should be made prayerfully. 06:44 We should be led by God. Absolutely. 06:46 And...now I do tell people that I think it's too late, 06:50 not too late in very case, but I think too late 06:52 for general encouragement because that could be 06:56 socially disruptive in this case for people to 06:59 people to following that biblical advice. Right. 07:02 I was impressed some years ago, before 9/11, 07:09 in the United States whereas there was a law 07:11 that if you sold your house you had to buy one of equal 07:15 or greater value or else you be taxed on the difference 07:18 and only when you retire do you get one time, 07:21 I think it was 125,000 dollar tax-free profit. 07:24 So it was very difficult until the time of retirement 07:28 to sort of uptakes and take your list 07:30 and dig and to use part of it 07:31 to buy that home and to live in the country. 07:34 But then in one fell sweep the law was changed. 07:39 It said you could turn your house into money. 07:41 House was selling at a historic level. 07:43 The prices were higher than ever. 07:46 The sale of building was there, The economy was good. 07:48 I don't believe in, no matter how long time goes on, 07:51 in our lifetime it will never be like that again. 07:53 That was the little golden moment. 07:55 And I likened that privately to sort of, 07:58 The armies pulling back from Jerusalem. 08:00 That little golden moment for those that were in 08:02 the besiege city to get out before the Rome was destroyed. 08:05 Right. But that doesn't mean that you're personally 08:08 Or spiritually lost, It just means life gets a little harder 08:11 than it might have been if you hadn't acted on 08:15 before warning. You know, in my book, I spent time. 08:19 first part of the book is looking at the science 08:22 of the collapse of these systems 08:24 and looking then at the social impacts. 08:26 What's coming and how it alliance with prophecy. 08:30 And towards the end of the book, 08:31 I say, well here's what we can do? 08:33 Well, the very first thing that I list that we can do 08:37 is to get know Jesus Christ as a friend. Absolutely 08:39 You know, Lee Venden says, it's not what you know 08:43 it's who you know, that gets you into heaven. 08:45 And I list a number of things that we should be doing. 08:48 And almost aside from planting a garden 08:51 and getting out of the cities, none of it has to do with 08:54 self preservation because that's not the point. 08:57 I glad you bring that because Ellen White also writing to 09:01 Adventists pointed out that at the very end of time, 09:03 she must've been reading a history if not listening 09:06 to the angels that she said, people come and take your God. 09:10 They do. Yeah. And that's gonna be case, 09:12 When it's every man for himself without the protection 09:15 of angels, you pretty much at the mercy of whatever 09:17 marauding neighbor or faction might come through you area. 09:22 So these are just--the advice I think to move to the country 09:27 These are just sort of logical steps to remove yourself from 09:31 the immediate trauma But for absolute protection, 09:34 it has to be a divine origin and even then, 09:37 what's this all about? we're turning this into more 09:40 of a theological discussion. We are. But really, 09:42 it's not about whether you or I are safe from trouble, 09:45 whether we're able to live comfortably verses 09:47 under some distress. The whole point of what 09:51 we called to do by God is to witness to his name, 09:53 talk about, and now we are back to your book. 09:56 Seventh Adventists says, the three angel's message 09:59 is on the first one, concerns proclamation 10:02 of the creator, God. We had to represent God 10:04 correctly here to facilitate His coming kingdom. 10:08 But it is not about us, it's about God. 10:09 You know, if our expectation of God 10:12 is that he will give us a comfortable life. 10:14 He never promised that. He never promised that. 10:17 And if that's our expectation then as times become more 10:19 difficult and they already are certainly in my lifetime, 10:22 then we will fall way from God. Now God, 10:25 how dare you give me inconvenience in my life? 10:29 And so being forewarned is being forearmed. 10:32 In this case, it's the matter of withdrawing from the world. 10:36 When you take a look at the collapse of the global systems 10:39 and how we are having much less food production 10:43 or will have much less food production and all of these 10:45 other converging problems, which we may wanna talk about 10:48 some more but when you take a look at all of those things, 10:51 the point then is to withdraw from the world and withdraw 10:56 spiritually and certainly from the world but to the extent 10:59 you can't withdraw from being relied on the world. 11:01 Who would want to strap themselves 11:03 to the railing of the Titanic? Absolutely. 11:06 Get away. Absolutely. Get away. 11:07 And even talking about food production. 11:09 You and I and others Seventh Adventists particularly 11:14 being blessed by some advised given hundred plus years ago 11:18 on health reform and natural foods and the Bible-based diet 11:24 But when I look up what's happening especially in the U.S 11:27 But the West exemplifies it generally. 11:29 The food on the shelves is sort of artificial food. 11:33 Yeah. And I believe that's covered in some ways 11:36 for a shortage of real food. Yeah. I mean things are 11:39 with fillers and emulsifier Every, all of them. 11:43 Who knows what's in there? you know the ingredients. 11:45 I remember being stattled once when I was living back 11:49 In Australia a few decades ago to read in the news that 11:52 The Peter's ice-cream, which was the largest ice-cream maker 11:55 of that time in Australia, had struck at deal with 11:58 the abattoirs or the slaughterhouses 12:00 to buy all their blood. The way of the-- 12:05 sorry the serum, the white part of the blood 12:10 and they were using that to thicken the ice-cream. 12:12 Oh! Who knows what's in it. And my wife did- 12:17 You just put me off ice-cream, by the way. 12:19 My wife did marketing studies and they had a food expert 12:22 come and lectured them once and he pointed out 12:24 that the hotdogs in the U.S, have a certain 12:26 percentage of earthworms. It's another name for it, 12:29 but not just that they happened to be there. 12:31 They put them in there to raise the protein content. 12:33 So who knows what we're eating? Who knows? 12:36 And I think some of it is not just to make money. It's to-- 12:39 it's to make up the short fall from the existence of real, 12:43 Nutritious, old-fashioned food You know, you could laugh, 12:48 I hope we laugh about it but at base this is sign of 12:51 a system collapse of food production. 12:54 We'll be back after this break to discuss further with aurthor 12:56 Scott Christensen, his book on global system collapse, 13:01 "Planet in Distress," is it's title. Stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17