Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Scott Christiansen
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000171A
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is the program bringing you, news, views, discussion, 00:27 and up-to-date information on religious liberty events 00:31 in the United States and around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine 00:37 and my guest on the program is Scott Christiansen. 00:40 Welcome, Scott. 00:41 Now, I was hesitating how to introduce you--? 00:45 Scott Christiansen, but what do you do? 00:47 You're an author-- I am. 00:48 That's what I want to focus on. 00:50 The most main thing I think for this interview 00:51 is that I'm an author, absolutely, yeah. 00:53 Now what's the name of the book 00:55 that is yet to be printed, 00:56 but is in late stages of production. 00:58 "Planet in Distress," comes out 00:59 from the Review and Herald in mid April. 01:01 At least that's the schedule. You know how these-- 01:03 Oh, I think they'll do it at this time. Okay. 01:04 Because this is a topic that needs to be shared. 01:08 Now, "Planet in Distress" that reminds me 01:10 of a book quite a few years ago, 01:12 "Planet in Rebellion." Yeah. 01:15 Was that George Vandeman? 01:16 That I think it was, as a matter of fact. 01:18 Yeah, that was talking about science of the times, 01:21 that we near the end of time, prophetically. 01:24 And you're not totally different from that, 01:25 but you coming in it from the angle of looking 01:28 at the systems of the world. 01:29 The ecological systems, systems of man and so on 01:33 and showing that they're all pretty much 01:35 declining in ways that argue for something, 01:39 that something has to happen, right? 01:40 Well, it does, and that I think 01:42 begs a bit more explanation if I could. 01:44 That's why we here for. Okay, very good. 01:46 Well, you know, the book basically says that sin 01:51 which--when it entered the world 01:53 separated creation from its creator, absolutely. 01:56 And the effect of sin we know that is death. 01:59 And typically, traditionally, we've thought, 02:01 well, okay that means a leaf dies 02:03 or that means a plant dies or a human or an animal. 02:06 We haven't really thought of this 02:08 in terms of our planet actually dying. 02:11 But our planet what God did is during creation, 02:13 He created these massive and amazing systems. 02:16 Our oceanic system, our atmospheric system, 02:19 our fresh water system, our food production system, 02:22 and when sin entered the world and death came in, 02:25 all of those began to die. 02:27 Now, you know, in your book 02:29 you get into a lot of scientific explanations 02:32 and some of that may tax a few people 02:34 that are not in that area, i t may. 02:36 But it brings me back to high school days, 02:38 you know, we learned the-- 02:39 it was the second law of thermodynamics? 02:41 Yeah. The law of entropy. 02:42 Yeah, and driving down, 02:45 you and I were talking about evolution. 02:48 You know, some elements of development 02:52 that evolution describes may well happen, 02:54 but it seems to me the idea 02:55 that we're going from a lower to a higher 02:57 form of life goes against all the natural laws around us. 03:00 Because things wind down, 03:02 this entropy, this decay. 03:05 And you're linking it 03:06 theologically to the Bible story, 03:08 which I believe absolutely, 03:11 that sin separated us and we're-- 03:13 we'd been in decline of sins, absolutely. 03:15 But I think that your book intersects 03:17 nicely with what all of us see, 03:19 whether you're a Christian or Buddhist, Muslim, 03:21 whatever, you read the newspaper. 03:23 And our viewers know some things going on, 03:26 whether it's global warming, or food shortage here, 03:29 famine there, or economic collapse in the west, 03:32 the systems are all stumbling 03:36 and really in an absolute decay, I think. 03:38 I like in it to a child's top, a spinning top, 03:41 and we've all seen them. 03:42 You know, they're so beautiful 03:44 and move around a little bit 03:45 and yet they're very stable until they slow down. 03:48 And then there is a sudden collapse. Yes. 03:49 For 6000 years of earth's history, 03:51 the top has been spinning. 03:52 You know, from the moment sin entered 03:55 the power that kept that top spinning, 03:59 Earth as the way God created it, 04:01 the power was separated from it. 04:03 Now it's beginning to really tip and wobble 04:05 and we're beginning to see it. 04:07 Now you mentioning that this 04:09 doesn't prove anything but it just reminds me. 04:10 You know, they said that that during 04:13 the Japanese earthquake recently, 04:15 the earth shifted on its axis 04:16 a couple of-- was it inches 04:19 or just a slight imperceptible shift? 04:21 Just a little bit, yeah. 04:23 So the things that are happening around us 04:26 literally are doing what you're just describing. 04:28 We're at that tipping point, 04:30 that's the term we often say-- 04:31 Exactly-- Close to the tipping point. 04:33 Exactly the tipping point. 04:34 You know, we live in a time 04:37 that has not been experienced before. 04:39 You know, my great grandmother 04:41 thought that she would live to see Christ come, 04:44 as did my grandmother, 04:45 as did my father who is 75. 04:47 And they lived in this hope. 04:49 Well, the age that we live in though 04:51 is very different from those 04:52 that have gone before us. 04:54 Because we can actually see 04:56 the forces build on a global basis 04:58 that bring about the prophecies 05:00 to fulfill the prophecies in Matthew 24, 05:03 specifically verses 6 through 8, 05:05 "Wars and rumors of wars, etc." 05:07 And this separates us from other generations 05:10 and if we can see those forces built, 05:13 if we can see the-- 05:15 But we need to know what we see? 05:17 Sometimes people see things, 05:19 but they don't know what it means. 05:20 It's not significant unless it's pointed out. 05:22 You know, it's like, Philip with the Ethiopian, 05:25 he's reading very pretentious words, 05:27 but someone needs to explain to him. 05:29 And I think your book's doing that. 05:30 This is what I attempt. 05:31 We all see the symptoms, 05:33 but they can just be meaningless, 05:35 chatter of a sort of a world in disarray, 05:37 but once you see what that represents, 05:41 then it could be overwhelming. 05:43 What I attempt to do in my book 05:45 is point out all of the systems 05:47 that are in decline and the impact of those systems, 05:50 which is mind boggling, mind boggling. 05:53 But then what is our responsibility 05:57 if really we see these prophecies being fulfilled. 06:02 What are we supposed to do? 06:04 We've that wisdom for a long time. 06:06 So it's a question of, 06:07 are we gonna take this seriously? 06:08 Absolutely, now right upfront, 06:12 I should tell people why I think 06:13 this is an immediate concern for a religious freedom. 06:18 I've noticed, for example that the U.S. Military 06:21 and Intelligence Services are studying 06:24 this type of thing very closely. 06:26 Because they know if discovered 06:30 the principles of work that when you have a collapse 06:33 of a food production system, there will be social unrest, 06:36 there will be war, certain things flow from that. 06:39 And I believe not just war which is problematic, 06:42 but I think some of the liberties 06:45 that we have are going to be very adversely 06:47 affected by the panic and the disarray 06:49 that comes with this continuing 06:52 an accelerating decline. 06:54 So I think it has a direct connection. 06:56 Absolutely. To religious freedom, civil liberties. 06:58 Absolutely, if we had, you know, 07:01 if you take a look at charts and graphs, 07:03 which we don't have with us here today. 07:05 But if you take a look at the employment graph, 07:08 not employment I beg your pardon, world population. 07:10 Employment doesn't look so good-- 07:13 but let's leave that for aside for a moment. 07:15 World population-- And they go up 07:16 1 to 2%--tens of a percent of their luck. 07:20 Which is nothing compared to world population. 07:23 I mean the-- We need to get on 07:24 to Thomas Malthus here sometimes-- 07:26 Oh, well and we-- Population goes up 07:28 exponentially and food goes up mathematically, right? 07:31 Well, and this is absolutely true. 07:32 And the burden of people 07:35 on the planet, seven billion people. 07:37 We've reached the point 07:38 where our food production is not keeping up 07:41 and can't keep up, which we may get into a little bit, 07:44 some of the signs or but--or may not. 07:47 You know, there's a book out there that explains it. 07:49 But we've reached the tipping point, 07:51 not just in food, but also in fresh water, 07:54 also in the food that we've withdrawn from the ocean. 07:57 Our ocean species are collapsing dramatically. 08:00 Yeah. And are expected to be-- 08:02 to disappear within the next generation 08:04 or generation and a half. 08:06 We've got a number of converging collapses 08:11 and we've got seven billion people, 08:12 who absolutely need the products and services. 08:16 So lot amounts. Well, it is a lot of amounts. 08:18 And what happens is when you have an unmet need 08:22 you get social unrest. 08:23 When you get social unrest you get chaos, 08:26 yes, but you also get stronger governments, 08:29 more totalitarian governments that suppress freedoms. 08:32 There is never a better time to work for Christ than now. 08:35 Absolutely. Full stop. 08:37 Yeah, and I've probably said it on this program before, 08:40 but somewhere I heard the Asian word for Christ 08:44 is dangerous opportunity, yes, yes. 08:46 And I do believe that this is a time of opportunity. 08:50 Even in the past of my career, 08:51 I remember I've had very nice advancement 08:54 or change in job that I appreciate it. 08:56 It came about because everything was in flux. 08:59 So yes, right up from we need to say 09:01 that this is cataclysmic what you're explaining. 09:04 But when you believe in Christ 09:07 and His coming kingdom, beyond all of this, 09:09 there's a wonderful tomorrow. 09:10 And here and now as followers of Christ 09:13 and believers in religious freedom 09:14 and older that entails, 09:16 this is our special moment to make that proclamation, yes. 09:19 And people will probably be more open to listen to us 09:22 then a time when there is a settle norm 09:25 and they're sort of occupied with their own business, 09:27 they're not self-aware as they're becoming now. 09:30 So I think this is a wonderful time, isn't it? 09:33 It is, and the interesting thing is, 09:35 as we overcome our personal barriers and fears 09:39 and proclaim Christ more aggressively 09:42 and that's a very difficult thing to do 09:43 because we're opening ourselves 09:45 to reject and that's tough. 09:46 But as we overcome those hurdles, 09:48 we develop a closer relationship with Christ, 09:50 and are then in turn more 09:52 willing to proclaim Him more openly. 09:53 It's a growth process. 09:56 I edited your book recently who gave me 09:59 the once through for the publishing house 10:00 which was nice of them to show it to me. 10:03 I think they were entrapping me--They're smart. 10:07 I don't remember you quoting Christ, 10:09 but or anything that He may have said 10:12 other than it was Matthew 24. 10:14 Matthew 24. 24. 10:15 But certainly, Paul said things about the earth 10:22 like it growing old like a garment. 10:24 And then I think elsewhere 10:25 He said that God is coming to destroy 10:28 those that destroy the earth. 10:29 Revelation, yes. 10:30 Yes, I was--this is something that I think a Christian 10:33 particularly should take close look at. 10:37 What do you think is our responsibility 10:39 in a time of degradation? 10:40 Of course the systems that you're talking about 10:41 are just not natural systems. 10:42 They're human systems as well. Oh, yes, absolutely. 10:45 But how should we relate to this? 10:47 Well, when it comes to-- 10:50 well there are two questions there. 10:52 I'm gonna set aside if it's okay with you, 10:54 for a moment I'll set aside the human systems. 10:56 So what is that Christian responsibility 10:59 to for reacting to a world that is in collapse 11:03 from an environmental standpoint? 11:06 When it comes to the fulfillment of prophecy 11:08 we have to remember that the fulfillment 11:10 of that prophecy is the direct response of 6000 years of sin. 11:15 You cannot change or alter 11:17 the impact of 6000 years of sin. 11:19 You're taking the Bible quite literally. I am. 11:21 And it never says that in the Bible, 11:23 but you can from the genealogy that you can deduce. 11:26 Bishop Pastor was one of the first to do it. 11:28 You can deduce about 6000 years in total 11:30 including the 2000 years since Christ. 11:34 Yes, I am one of those, who-- And I am one too. 11:37 Okay. So we need to spell it out. 11:38 Okay, there are people that claim to respect the Bible, 11:41 but they have other longer figures-- 11:44 Other markers, although I don't think 11:46 it's possible to read the Bible 11:47 and think it's millions and millions. 11:49 But you could certainly stretch it 11:50 a few tens or thousands-- You could and the number, 11:55 you know, looking at the Bible, 11:56 looking at the genealogies, 11:58 I've become very comfortable-- 12:00 I think to me it's self-evident, 12:03 but it's not inconclusive. 12:05 I mean it's not conclusive to just, 12:08 you know, to maintain that and to prove it 12:09 to the nth degree to someone else 12:11 but it's consistent with what the Bible saying. 12:14 And I myself think there's not even immaterial 12:18 that the Bible works on numerology 12:21 and there is a millennium in the future. 12:23 It goes Christians debate about where the millennium is. 12:25 But there is a millennium. Right. 12:28 And the Bible works in numbers. 12:29 So 6000 years is a round figure 12:32 for the human side or man's part of history here. 12:36 And then God takes control for the last millennium, 12:39 last 1000 years, right. 12:41 So we probably as far as Biblical prophecy 12:44 and numerology would suggest 12:45 very close to the climax of this whole story. 12:50 We are very, very close. 12:52 And as I say, we're looking at Matthew 24. 12:55 This is the first generation. 12:56 Looking back this is the first generation 12:58 that's been able to look at the forces that build, 13:00 look at the known effects. 13:03 And actually see it happening before they are. 13:04 Actually see it happening, you know, we-- 13:06 We'll come back after the break. 13:08 Before my eyes the time has disappeared. 13:10 But stay with us 13:11 and we'll be back shortly to continue 13:13 this discussion with author, Scott Christiansen. |
Revised 2014-12-17