Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:22.57\00:00:24.67
This is the program bringing
you, news, views, discussion,
00:00:24.68\00:00:27.72
and up-to-date information
on religious liberty events
00:00:27.73\00:00:31.08
in the United States
and around the world.
00:00:31.09\00:00:33.38
My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
00:00:33.39\00:00:37.15
and my guest on the
program is Scott Christiansen.
00:00:37.16\00:00:40.39
Welcome, Scott.
00:00:40.40\00:00:41.42
Now, I was hesitating
how to introduce you--?
00:00:41.43\00:00:45.79
Scott Christiansen,
but what do you do?
00:00:45.80\00:00:47.74
You're an author-- I am.
00:00:47.75\00:00:48.74
That's what I want to focus on.
00:00:48.75\00:00:50.04
The most main thing I
think for this interview
00:00:50.05\00:00:51.73
is that I'm an
author, absolutely, yeah.
00:00:51.74\00:00:53.52
Now what's the name of the book
00:00:53.53\00:00:55.22
that is yet to be printed,
00:00:55.23\00:00:56.31
but is in late
stages of production.
00:00:56.32\00:00:58.51
"Planet in Distress," comes out
00:00:58.52\00:00:59.87
from the Review and
Herald in mid April.
00:00:59.88\00:01:01.80
At least that's the
schedule. You know how these--
00:01:01.81\00:01:03.25
Oh, I think they'll
do it at this time. Okay.
00:01:03.26\00:01:04.78
Because this is a topic
that needs to be shared.
00:01:04.79\00:01:08.49
Now, "Planet in
Distress" that reminds me
00:01:08.50\00:01:10.42
of a book quite a few years ago,
00:01:10.43\00:01:12.55
"Planet in Rebellion." Yeah.
00:01:12.56\00:01:15.06
Was that George Vandeman?
00:01:15.07\00:01:16.27
That I think it
was, as a matter of fact.
00:01:16.28\00:01:18.22
Yeah, that was talking
about science of the times,
00:01:18.23\00:01:21.35
that we near the end
of time, prophetically.
00:01:21.36\00:01:23.98
And you're not
totally different from that,
00:01:23.99\00:01:25.94
but you coming in it
from the angle of looking
00:01:25.95\00:01:28.02
at the systems of the world.
00:01:28.03\00:01:29.84
The ecological systems,
systems of man and so on
00:01:29.85\00:01:33.63
and showing that
they're all pretty much
00:01:33.64\00:01:35.88
declining in ways
that argue for something,
00:01:35.89\00:01:39.33
that something
has to happen, right?
00:01:39.34\00:01:40.82
Well, it does, and that I think
00:01:40.83\00:01:42.70
begs a bit more
explanation if I could.
00:01:42.71\00:01:44.88
That's why we here
for. Okay, very good.
00:01:44.89\00:01:46.58
Well, you know, the
book basically says that sin
00:01:46.59\00:01:51.12
which--when it entered the world
00:01:51.13\00:01:53.25
separated creation from
its creator, absolutely.
00:01:53.26\00:01:56.43
And the effect of sin
we know that is death.
00:01:56.44\00:01:59.20
And typically,
traditionally, we've thought,
00:01:59.21\00:02:01.30
well, okay that
means a leaf dies
00:02:01.31\00:02:03.17
or that means a plant
dies or a human or an animal.
00:02:03.18\00:02:06.78
We haven't
really thought of this
00:02:06.79\00:02:08.12
in terms of our
planet actually dying.
00:02:08.13\00:02:10.98
But our planet what
God did is during creation,
00:02:10.99\00:02:13.95
He created these
massive and amazing systems.
00:02:13.96\00:02:16.68
Our oceanic system,
our atmospheric system,
00:02:16.69\00:02:19.39
our fresh water system,
our food production system,
00:02:19.40\00:02:22.36
and when sin entered
the world and death came in,
00:02:22.37\00:02:25.14
all of those began to die.
00:02:25.15\00:02:27.58
Now, you know, in your book
00:02:27.59\00:02:29.90
you get into a lot of
scientific explanations
00:02:29.91\00:02:32.01
and some of that
may tax a few people
00:02:32.02\00:02:34.60
that are not in
that area, i t may.
00:02:34.61\00:02:36.04
But it brings me
back to high school days,
00:02:36.05\00:02:38.33
you know, we learned the--
00:02:38.34\00:02:39.87
it was the second
law of thermodynamics?
00:02:39.88\00:02:41.28
Yeah. The law of entropy.
00:02:41.29\00:02:42.89
Yeah, and driving down,
00:02:42.90\00:02:45.96
you and I were
talking about evolution.
00:02:45.97\00:02:48.47
You know, some
elements of development
00:02:48.48\00:02:52.28
that evolution
describes may well happen,
00:02:52.29\00:02:54.18
but it seems to me the idea
00:02:54.19\00:02:55.46
that we're going
from a lower to a higher
00:02:55.47\00:02:57.96
form of life goes against
all the natural laws around us.
00:02:57.97\00:03:00.56
Because things wind down,
00:03:00.57\00:03:02.93
this entropy, this decay.
00:03:02.94\00:03:05.32
And you're linking it
00:03:05.33\00:03:06.32
theologically
to the Bible story,
00:03:06.33\00:03:08.54
which I believe absolutely,
00:03:08.55\00:03:11.25
that sin
separated us and we're--
00:03:11.26\00:03:13.38
we'd been in
decline of sins, absolutely.
00:03:13.39\00:03:15.68
But I think that
your book intersects
00:03:15.69\00:03:17.43
nicely with what all of us see,
00:03:17.44\00:03:19.24
whether you're a
Christian or Buddhist, Muslim,
00:03:19.25\00:03:20.97
whatever, you
read the newspaper.
00:03:20.98\00:03:23.64
And our viewers know
some things going on,
00:03:23.65\00:03:26.11
whether it's global
warming, or food shortage here,
00:03:26.12\00:03:29.10
famine there, or
economic collapse in the west,
00:03:29.11\00:03:32.83
the systems are all stumbling
00:03:32.84\00:03:36.29
and really in an
absolute decay, I think.
00:03:36.30\00:03:38.36
I like in it to a
child's top, a spinning top,
00:03:38.37\00:03:41.52
and we've all seen them.
00:03:41.53\00:03:42.56
You know, they're so beautiful
00:03:42.57\00:03:44.15
and move around a little bit
00:03:44.16\00:03:45.35
and yet they're very
stable until they slow down.
00:03:45.36\00:03:48.00
And then there is a
sudden collapse. Yes.
00:03:48.01\00:03:49.66
For 6000 years
of earth's history,
00:03:49.67\00:03:51.52
the top has been spinning.
00:03:51.53\00:03:52.87
You know, from
the moment sin entered
00:03:52.88\00:03:55.73
the power that
kept that top spinning,
00:03:55.74\00:03:59.29
Earth as the way God created it,
00:03:59.30\00:04:01.37
the power was separated from it.
00:04:01.38\00:04:03.34
Now it's beginning
to really tip and wobble
00:04:03.35\00:04:05.93
and we're beginning to see it.
00:04:05.94\00:04:07.05
Now you mentioning that this
00:04:07.06\00:04:09.32
doesn't prove anything
but it just reminds me.
00:04:09.33\00:04:10.91
You know, they
said that that during
00:04:10.92\00:04:13.57
the Japanese
earthquake recently,
00:04:13.58\00:04:15.34
the earth shifted on its axis
00:04:15.35\00:04:16.82
a couple of-- was it inches
00:04:16.83\00:04:19.82
or just a slight
imperceptible shift?
00:04:19.83\00:04:21.09
Just a little bit, yeah.
00:04:21.10\00:04:23.29
So the things that
are happening around us
00:04:23.30\00:04:26.19
literally are doing
what you're just describing.
00:04:26.20\00:04:28.41
We're at that tipping point,
00:04:28.42\00:04:30.55
that's the term we often say--
00:04:30.56\00:04:31.76
Exactly-- Close
to the tipping point.
00:04:31.77\00:04:33.32
Exactly the tipping point.
00:04:33.33\00:04:34.57
You know, we live in a time
00:04:34.58\00:04:37.31
that has not been
experienced before.
00:04:37.32\00:04:39.55
You know, my great grandmother
00:04:39.56\00:04:41.81
thought that she would
live to see Christ come,
00:04:41.82\00:04:44.04
as did my grandmother,
00:04:44.05\00:04:45.10
as did my father who is 75.
00:04:45.11\00:04:47.16
And they lived in this hope.
00:04:47.17\00:04:49.09
Well, the age
that we live in though
00:04:49.10\00:04:50.98
is very different from those
00:04:50.99\00:04:52.51
that have gone before us.
00:04:52.52\00:04:54.05
Because we can actually see
00:04:54.06\00:04:55.98
the forces build
on a global basis
00:04:55.99\00:04:58.54
that bring about the prophecies
00:04:58.55\00:05:00.71
to fulfill the
prophecies in Matthew 24,
00:05:00.72\00:05:03.27
specifically verses 6 through 8,
00:05:03.28\00:05:05.05
"Wars and rumors of wars, etc."
00:05:05.06\00:05:07.93
And this separates us
from other generations
00:05:07.94\00:05:10.77
and if we can see
those forces built,
00:05:10.78\00:05:13.43
if we can see the--
00:05:13.44\00:05:15.12
But we need to know what we see?
00:05:15.13\00:05:17.12
Sometimes people see things,
00:05:17.13\00:05:19.13
but they don't
know what it means.
00:05:19.14\00:05:20.49
It's not significant
unless it's pointed out.
00:05:20.50\00:05:22.62
You know, it's like,
Philip with the Ethiopian,
00:05:22.63\00:05:25.08
he's reading very
pretentious words,
00:05:25.09\00:05:26.99
but someone needs
to explain to him.
00:05:27.00\00:05:29.07
And I think your
book's doing that.
00:05:29.08\00:05:30.82
This is what I attempt.
00:05:30.83\00:05:31.91
We all see the symptoms,
00:05:31.92\00:05:33.69
but they can
just be meaningless,
00:05:33.70\00:05:35.07
chatter of a sort
of a world in disarray,
00:05:35.08\00:05:37.90
but once you see
what that represents,
00:05:37.91\00:05:41.22
then it could be overwhelming.
00:05:41.23\00:05:43.64
What I attempt to do in my book
00:05:43.65\00:05:45.41
is point out all of the systems
00:05:45.42\00:05:47.76
that are in decline and
the impact of those systems,
00:05:47.77\00:05:50.58
which is mind
boggling, mind boggling.
00:05:50.59\00:05:53.02
But then what is
our responsibility
00:05:53.03\00:05:57.48
if really we see these
prophecies being fulfilled.
00:05:57.49\00:06:02.83
What are we supposed to do?
00:06:02.84\00:06:04.34
We've that
wisdom for a long time.
00:06:04.35\00:06:06.63
So it's a question of,
00:06:06.64\00:06:07.72
are we gonna
take this seriously?
00:06:07.73\00:06:08.86
Absolutely, now right upfront,
00:06:08.87\00:06:12.27
I should tell people why I think
00:06:12.28\00:06:13.74
this is an immediate
concern for a religious freedom.
00:06:13.75\00:06:18.44
I've noticed, for
example that the U.S. Military
00:06:18.45\00:06:21.77
and Intelligence
Services are studying
00:06:21.78\00:06:24.75
this type of thing very closely.
00:06:24.76\00:06:26.29
Because they know if discovered
00:06:26.30\00:06:30.31
the principles of work
that when you have a collapse
00:06:30.32\00:06:33.87
of a food production system,
there will be social unrest,
00:06:33.88\00:06:36.71
there will be war,
certain things flow from that.
00:06:36.72\00:06:39.35
And I believe not just
war which is problematic,
00:06:39.36\00:06:42.58
but I think
some of the liberties
00:06:42.59\00:06:44.99
that we have are
going to be very adversely
00:06:45.00\00:06:47.11
affected by the
panic and the disarray
00:06:47.12\00:06:49.68
that comes with this continuing
00:06:49.69\00:06:52.15
an accelerating decline.
00:06:52.16\00:06:54.22
So I think it has
a direct connection.
00:06:54.23\00:06:56.17
Absolutely. To religious
freedom, civil liberties.
00:06:56.18\00:06:58.21
Absolutely, if we had, you know,
00:06:58.22\00:07:01.45
if you take a look
at charts and graphs,
00:07:01.46\00:07:03.21
which we don't
have with us here today.
00:07:03.22\00:07:05.01
But if you take a look
at the employment graph,
00:07:05.02\00:07:08.91
not employment I beg
your pardon, world population.
00:07:08.92\00:07:10.93
Employment
doesn't look so good--
00:07:10.94\00:07:13.44
but let's leave that
for aside for a moment.
00:07:13.45\00:07:15.37
World
population-- And they go up
00:07:15.38\00:07:16.61
1 to 2%--tens of a
percent of their luck.
00:07:16.62\00:07:20.12
Which is nothing
compared to world population.
00:07:20.13\00:07:23.49
I mean the-- We need to get on
00:07:23.50\00:07:24.88
to Thomas
Malthus here sometimes--
00:07:24.89\00:07:26.56
Oh, well and we--
Population goes up
00:07:26.57\00:07:28.40
exponentially and food
goes up mathematically, right?
00:07:28.41\00:07:31.02
Well, and this
is absolutely true.
00:07:31.03\00:07:32.59
And the burden of people
00:07:32.60\00:07:35.24
on the planet,
seven billion people.
00:07:35.25\00:07:37.46
We've reached the point
00:07:37.47\00:07:38.73
where our food
production is not keeping up
00:07:38.74\00:07:41.67
and can't keep up, which
we may get into a little bit,
00:07:41.68\00:07:44.63
some of the signs
or but--or may not.
00:07:44.64\00:07:47.18
You know, there's a book
out there that explains it.
00:07:47.19\00:07:49.31
But we've reached
the tipping point,
00:07:49.32\00:07:51.83
not just in food,
but also in fresh water,
00:07:51.84\00:07:54.43
also in the food that
we've withdrawn from the ocean.
00:07:54.44\00:07:57.24
Our ocean species are
collapsing dramatically.
00:07:57.25\00:08:00.64
Yeah. And are expected to be--
00:08:00.65\00:08:02.64
to disappear
within the next generation
00:08:02.65\00:08:04.62
or generation and a half.
00:08:04.63\00:08:06.16
We've got a number
of converging collapses
00:08:06.17\00:08:11.18
and we've got
seven billion people,
00:08:11.19\00:08:12.75
who absolutely need
the products and services.
00:08:12.76\00:08:16.57
So lot amounts. Well,
it is a lot of amounts.
00:08:16.58\00:08:18.81
And what happens is
when you have an unmet need
00:08:18.82\00:08:22.63
you get social unrest.
00:08:22.64\00:08:23.63
When you get social
unrest you get chaos,
00:08:23.64\00:08:26.63
yes, but you also
get stronger governments,
00:08:26.64\00:08:29.16
more totalitarian governments
that suppress freedoms.
00:08:29.17\00:08:32.14
There is never a better time
to work for Christ than now.
00:08:32.15\00:08:35.37
Absolutely. Full stop.
00:08:35.38\00:08:36.97
Yeah, and I've probably
said it on this program before,
00:08:36.98\00:08:40.94
but somewhere I heard
the Asian word for Christ
00:08:40.95\00:08:44.13
is dangerous
opportunity, yes, yes.
00:08:44.14\00:08:46.13
And I do believe that
this is a time of opportunity.
00:08:46.14\00:08:50.25
Even in the past of my career,
00:08:50.26\00:08:51.79
I remember I've had
very nice advancement
00:08:51.80\00:08:54.63
or change in job
that I appreciate it.
00:08:54.64\00:08:56.84
It came about because
everything was in flux.
00:08:56.85\00:08:59.27
So yes, right up
from we need to say
00:08:59.28\00:09:01.61
that this is cataclysmic
what you're explaining.
00:09:01.62\00:09:04.71
But when you believe in Christ
00:09:04.72\00:09:07.31
and His coming
kingdom, beyond all of this,
00:09:07.32\00:09:09.21
there's a wonderful tomorrow.
00:09:09.22\00:09:10.92
And here and now
as followers of Christ
00:09:10.93\00:09:13.05
and believers in
religious freedom
00:09:13.06\00:09:14.50
and older that entails,
00:09:14.51\00:09:16.25
this is our special moment
to make that proclamation, yes.
00:09:16.26\00:09:19.93
And people will probably
be more open to listen to us
00:09:19.94\00:09:22.85
then a time when
there is a settle norm
00:09:22.86\00:09:25.03
and they're sort of occupied
with their own business,
00:09:25.04\00:09:27.96
they're not self-aware
as they're becoming now.
00:09:27.97\00:09:30.81
So I think this is a
wonderful time, isn't it?
00:09:30.82\00:09:33.54
It is, and the
interesting thing is,
00:09:33.55\00:09:35.54
as we overcome our
personal barriers and fears
00:09:35.55\00:09:39.62
and proclaim
Christ more aggressively
00:09:39.63\00:09:42.55
and that's a very
difficult thing to do
00:09:42.56\00:09:43.85
because we're opening ourselves
00:09:43.86\00:09:44.97
to reject and that's tough.
00:09:44.98\00:09:46.19
But as we
overcome those hurdles,
00:09:46.20\00:09:48.17
we develop a closer
relationship with Christ,
00:09:48.18\00:09:50.58
and are then in turn more
00:09:50.59\00:09:51.98
willing to
proclaim Him more openly.
00:09:51.99\00:09:53.25
It's a growth process.
00:09:53.26\00:09:55.99
I edited your book
recently who gave me
00:09:56.00\00:09:58.97
the once through
for the publishing house
00:09:58.98\00:10:00.58
which was nice of
them to show it to me.
00:10:00.59\00:10:03.08
I think they were
entrapping me--They're smart.
00:10:03.09\00:10:07.20
I don't remember
you quoting Christ,
00:10:07.21\00:10:09.07
but or anything
that He may have said
00:10:09.08\00:10:12.55
other than it was Matthew 24.
00:10:12.56\00:10:14.09
Matthew 24. 24.
00:10:14.10\00:10:15.26
But certainly, Paul
said things about the earth
00:10:15.27\00:10:22.45
like it growing
old like a garment.
00:10:22.46\00:10:24.63
And then I think elsewhere
00:10:24.64\00:10:25.73
He said that God
is coming to destroy
00:10:25.74\00:10:28.13
those that destroy the earth.
00:10:28.14\00:10:29.38
Revelation, yes.
00:10:29.39\00:10:30.38
Yes, I was--this is something
that I think a Christian
00:10:30.39\00:10:33.56
particularly
should take close look at.
00:10:33.57\00:10:37.10
What do you think
is our responsibility
00:10:37.11\00:10:38.97
in a time of degradation?
00:10:38.98\00:10:40.10
Of course the systems
that you're talking about
00:10:40.11\00:10:41.26
are just not natural systems.
00:10:41.27\00:10:42.92
They're human systems as
well. Oh, yes, absolutely.
00:10:42.93\00:10:45.43
But how should
we relate to this?
00:10:45.44\00:10:47.51
Well, when it comes to--
00:10:47.52\00:10:49.98
well there are
two questions there.
00:10:49.99\00:10:52.59
I'm gonna set aside
if it's okay with you,
00:10:52.60\00:10:54.00
for a moment I'll set
aside the human systems.
00:10:54.01\00:10:56.86
So what is that
Christian responsibility
00:10:56.87\00:10:59.38
to for reacting to a
world that is in collapse
00:10:59.39\00:11:03.45
from an
environmental standpoint?
00:11:03.46\00:11:06.41
When it comes to the
fulfillment of prophecy
00:11:06.42\00:11:08.51
we have to remember
that the fulfillment
00:11:08.52\00:11:10.87
of that prophecy is the direct
response of 6000 years of sin.
00:11:10.88\00:11:15.02
You cannot change or alter
00:11:15.03\00:11:17.62
the impact of 6000 years of sin.
00:11:17.63\00:11:19.16
You're taking the
Bible quite literally. I am.
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.87
And it never says
that in the Bible,
00:11:21.88\00:11:23.63
but you can from the
genealogy that you can deduce.
00:11:23.64\00:11:26.80
Bishop Pastor was one
of the first to do it.
00:11:26.81\00:11:28.70
You can deduce
about 6000 years in total
00:11:28.71\00:11:30.93
including the 2000
years since Christ.
00:11:30.94\00:11:34.92
Yes, I am one of
those, who-- And I am one too.
00:11:34.93\00:11:37.01
Okay. So we
need to spell it out.
00:11:37.02\00:11:38.68
Okay, there are people
that claim to respect the Bible,
00:11:38.69\00:11:41.85
but they have
other longer figures--
00:11:41.86\00:11:44.28
Other markers,
although I don't think
00:11:44.29\00:11:45.98
it's possible to read the Bible
00:11:45.99\00:11:47.61
and think it's
millions and millions.
00:11:47.62\00:11:49.47
But you could
certainly stretch it
00:11:49.48\00:11:50.94
a few tens or thousands--
You could and the number,
00:11:50.95\00:11:55.19
you know, looking at the Bible,
00:11:55.20\00:11:56.83
looking at the genealogies,
00:11:56.84\00:11:58.09
I've become very comfortable--
00:11:58.10\00:12:00.54
I think to me it's self-evident,
00:12:00.55\00:12:03.36
but it's not inconclusive.
00:12:03.37\00:12:05.53
I mean it's not
conclusive to just,
00:12:05.54\00:12:08.06
you know, to
maintain that and to prove it
00:12:08.07\00:12:09.69
to the nth
degree to someone else
00:12:09.70\00:12:11.26
but it's consistent
with what the Bible saying.
00:12:11.27\00:12:14.82
And I myself think
there's not even immaterial
00:12:14.83\00:12:18.30
that the Bible
works on numerology
00:12:18.31\00:12:21.19
and there is a
millennium in the future.
00:12:21.20\00:12:23.39
It goes Christians debate
about where the millennium is.
00:12:23.40\00:12:25.95
But there is a
millennium. Right.
00:12:25.96\00:12:28.61
And the Bible works in numbers.
00:12:28.62\00:12:29.88
So 6000 years is a round figure
00:12:29.89\00:12:32.39
for the human side or
man's part of history here.
00:12:32.40\00:12:36.48
And then God takes
control for the last millennium,
00:12:36.49\00:12:39.70
last 1000 years, right.
00:12:39.71\00:12:41.17
So we probably as
far as Biblical prophecy
00:12:41.18\00:12:44.23
and numerology would suggest
00:12:44.24\00:12:45.90
very close to the
climax of this whole story.
00:12:45.91\00:12:50.43
We are very, very close.
00:12:50.44\00:12:52.03
And as I say, we're
looking at Matthew 24.
00:12:52.04\00:12:55.38
This is the first generation.
00:12:55.39\00:12:56.83
Looking back this
is the first generation
00:12:56.84\00:12:58.43
that's been able to look
at the forces that build,
00:12:58.44\00:13:00.83
look at the known effects.
00:13:00.84\00:13:03.42
And actually see it
happening before they are.
00:13:03.43\00:13:04.92
Actually see it
happening, you know, we--
00:13:04.93\00:13:06.59
We'll come back after the break.
00:13:06.60\00:13:08.16
Before my eyes the
time has disappeared.
00:13:08.17\00:13:10.31
But stay with us
00:13:10.32\00:13:11.31
and we'll be back
shortly to continue
00:13:11.32\00:13:13.31
this discussion with
author, Scott Christiansen.
00:13:13.32\00:13:16.15