Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Bruce N. Cameron
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000168B
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00:02 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:05 Before the break with guest Bruce Cameron, 00:09 we were talking about your specialty, 00:13 a take on labor unions and religious accommodation. 00:16 But let me jump it in slightly different direction. 00:20 I don't know when this program will come out, 00:22 but it's very likely 00:23 it'll be before the presidential election. 00:27 And we're not partisans 00:28 on this program of religious liberties for all. 00:32 And both parties should be promoting it. 00:34 But when we talk about unions, 00:38 there's been a perception, 00:40 probably even a reality that the present administration, 00:43 the Obama's administration have a sympathy for the unions. 00:49 Have you seen that? 00:50 And what does it mean? 00:52 And, you know, what do you see ahead 00:55 either for a continuation of this administration 00:57 or if the other party got in? 00:59 What would it mean for unions 01:01 and the religious accommodation? 01:04 I am not sure we change religious accommodation, 01:06 but it certainly benefits a union. 01:08 So there is no question 01:09 that the democrats are tilted towards labor unions. 01:13 The reason for that is obvious. 01:15 Organize labor is the financial engine 01:17 for the Democratic Party. 01:19 That an extremely wealthy individuals. 01:22 Unions are always among the very top contributors, 01:27 to politics you have big corporations 01:30 and you have organized labor. 01:33 And so the Democratic Party has an affinity to organize 01:37 labors because that serve their purse, you know. 01:39 Yes, I think that's historical fact. 01:41 Well, let me interject. 01:43 I want to stop the whole response, 01:45 but given that that's true, 01:47 do you think that this present administration 01:49 have given inordinate support to the unions 01:52 or is it just being business as usual? 01:54 No, I think they have given an inordinate support 01:56 to the unions in certain areas. 01:58 For example, there's a lot of publicity 02:01 recently about what's been happening 02:02 at the National Labor Relations Board. 02:05 National Labor Relations Board has generally 02:07 five board members appointed by the president 02:12 and then they are supposed to be confirmed by the senate. 02:15 But the President Obama has been putting 02:17 board members on the NLRB, 02:20 the National Labor Relations Board, 02:22 who cannot be confirmed by this. 02:24 And for example, Craig Becker, 02:26 was a union lawyer hostile to Right to Work. 02:31 And he came in as a recess appointment, 02:33 did a tremendous amount of damage 02:35 to individual liberties and individual rights. 02:39 And President Obama in the last three weeks 02:43 has now appointed 02:45 three more board members without senate approval. 02:49 We've challenged that in federal court 02:51 because these are board appointees by President Obama 02:54 are simply not in favor of individual rights. 02:58 Now, you say, how can you say that Bruce? 03:01 You know, when I say individual rights, 03:02 I am talking about employee rights. 03:04 It's because the whole theses 03:07 of the National Labor Relations Act, 03:09 which is administered 03:10 by the National Labor Relations Board 03:12 is employee for your choice, 03:14 employees get to choose whether they want a union or not. 03:18 But the Obama Board has been pushing this idea 03:23 that employers and unions can agree, 03:27 they can have these neutrality agreements, 03:29 they can have these agreements before 03:31 any individual employee is voted on a union 03:35 that will allow the union to have a leg-up 03:40 in representing the employees. 03:41 Yeah, I know, I can-- I've seen that. 03:43 My question is not related to that. 03:45 Why was--why wasn't it called the Choice Act? 03:47 Well, the-- Which was anything about that. 03:50 Right, Employee Free Choice Act, right. 03:52 The idea is employees have a right to an election, 03:57 unless the employer, you know, says, 04:00 I've looked at the evidence 04:01 and I think the union has majority status 04:04 and I can agree to that, 04:05 but absent that employees have a right to a secret ballot. 04:10 The Obama Board wants to take that away, 04:12 the Democratic Party wants to take that away 04:15 and allow elections to be done through card check, 04:18 which means the friendly union fellow 04:20 gets to stand in there while you're filling out 04:22 your preference for the union or not. 04:25 Now I think there is not a single American 04:28 that doesn't understand the benefit 04:31 and the blessing of the ballot, 04:33 you know, the secret ballot, right, right. 04:35 You get behind the curtain 04:37 and it's between you and God, who you vote for-- 04:39 In other way, secret ballot came from Australia. 04:41 Is that right? There you have it. 04:45 That was a basic principal there for the beginning. 04:48 So instead we're replaced at with, 04:50 you fill out your ballot with the friendly union fellow 04:53 standing there supervising you. 04:55 It's obviously antithetical to free choice. 04:59 And in fact the Obama Board changed a rule 05:04 because of these agreements, these neutrality agreements 05:07 where employers agree to give the union 05:10 an advantage and agreement to card check, 05:14 the concern was that individual employees 05:17 viewers were not really being represented in this. 05:20 So we'd won a case called Dana Meldine 05:23 that said that if you had a situation 05:26 like that the employees had a short window of time 05:29 in which they could file a petition, 05:31 asking for an election. 05:34 They were then have a secret ballot election. 05:36 Well, organize labor is not in favor of having 05:39 a stand for secret ballot election. 05:42 The Obama Board repealed that, 05:45 reverse that in a case called Lamon Gaskets. 05:48 And so, you know, 05:50 now employees don't have that choice to file, 05:54 it was a 45 day period, 05:56 to file request for a secret ballot election. 05:59 So, yes, the Obama administration 06:02 has been very helpful to organize labor. 06:05 Well, as I listen to you, 06:08 case after case and argument after argument. 06:10 I'm more and more impressed 06:12 that at least the way you're presenting it 06:13 that unions are anti-democratic. 06:16 I rather than-- beyond just whether 06:19 it might restrict your conscience 06:21 or religious liberty stand 06:23 that this is the pattern of disrespecting 06:27 majoritarian or democratic norms. 06:31 Well you know, organize labor is exempt 06:34 from a number of the statues in the United States. 06:37 For example, the Hobbs Act 06:39 allows an individually prosecute for violence 06:43 but unions are exempt from that. 06:45 I don't know that. 06:47 Yes, many year ago, I was litigating a case 06:49 on behalf of a lady who had her family home burned down 06:53 by the union that represent her 06:55 because she had decided 06:57 she wanted to go to work through a picket line 07:00 so they burnt her house down. 07:02 I had been working for the Department of Justice 07:05 in my last year of law school. 07:07 And so I contacted justice about this and said, 07:10 "look is there some way that you can look at this," 07:13 and they said to me, what I fear they would say, 07:15 which is well under, you know, that supreme court president, 07:20 we have no jurisdiction to prosecute a union 07:24 because if they commit violence in furtherance 07:26 of labor objectives, they get a free pass. 07:30 Now that would be, that would restrict the right 07:32 to sue whole of the union accountable 07:34 but the individual that burnt the house surely 07:37 could be charge with the crime, right? 07:39 Well, yes and in fact the individual 07:42 who burn down the house was charged with that crime 07:45 and we also sue the union and so on and so forth. 07:49 But now the point is simply this 07:52 that it prevents the federal government from prosecuting. 07:56 I'll tell you another one, 07:58 there is a fellow named Eddie York, 08:00 Eddie York was working in a mine in West Virginia. 08:04 He--the mine was being struck by the United Mine Workers. 08:09 He was not doing work in the mine. 08:11 He was doing EPA reclamation work. 08:14 Eddie York, when he drove out of the place 08:17 that is out of the mine road, there were pickets there, 08:20 there's a UAW picket captain, he pulled a pistol 08:24 and he shot and killed Eddie York. 08:26 The father had three children. 08:29 That union and that official was never prosecuted 08:35 for Hobbs Act violation, 08:39 instead the federal government 08:41 brought a weapons charge against him. 08:43 He's convicted of a weapons charge 08:45 and he has never through this day 08:47 been prosecuted by the local state prosecutor 08:51 because I believe 08:52 of the political influence of the UMW. 08:55 This is in my view, unions are getting away with murder. 08:59 Quite literally, that's an aberration. 09:03 Let me ask you one, 09:04 we didn't have much time left. 09:06 But I think you've made a good case 09:07 that unions are adults with a phase, 09:12 a stance in the work place. 09:15 We have many Adventists 09:17 and others of religious faith in the workplace have problems 09:21 in the other large single employer 09:23 other than U.S. government, 09:24 Wal-Mart. Okay. 09:26 Now they're not unionized, right? 09:28 Well, they, you know, a Wal-Mart is not unionized-- 09:31 No. In fact they made a big point of this-- 09:33 No, there's a, they're well with the unions in many ways. 09:36 And in fact that's right the retail clerks 09:38 and another unions have tried to in fact disable 09:43 and injure Wal-Mart's business model 09:45 because they're not organized. 09:46 So I think, I won't end up defend unions, 09:49 but it seems to me we have two polar opposites 09:51 that are equally troublesome for religious accommodation. 09:56 Wal-Mart have shown a very little sympathy 10:01 for specific religious accommodation cases. 10:05 Their main way of dealing with it 10:06 is they filter out applicants, 10:09 which I think is not right with direct questions about, 10:14 you know, what will you work for full days and so on? 10:16 And if you signal that you're not gonna be hired. 10:20 I've not heard that and I've not seen this 10:22 and I will tell you what, 10:23 when Sam Walton was the--was alive 10:27 and was running Wal-Mart. 10:29 The Wal-Mart management had a clear Christian culture 10:32 and they're absolutely, 10:34 it was a faith affirming culture. 10:37 And I can't say that today but 've had not heard that-- 10:40 Well, we need to hold and do account on that. 10:42 Well. That I know that there are recurring cases 10:46 and with the cases that come up with their church, 10:48 you know, pretty much Wal-Mart 10:50 and the post office are take the law 10:53 and share of the areas of difficulties. 10:56 I was not aware of that, 10:58 I truly I've never heard this at all. 11:00 I'd like to think my ears 11:01 to the ground on religious liberty but-- 11:03 I'm not suggesting that Wal-Mart 11:05 necessarily be unionized for us to get accommodation, 11:08 that's hardly-- Well, that would be-- 11:10 But unions and I think you've described it very well, 11:13 a problematic but even without unions 11:16 there can be a problem 11:19 and so it isn't just may be I am trying the wrong way 11:21 or long way around to make an argument 11:23 that's pointless anyhow. 11:24 It isn't just unions are opposed 11:27 to what needs to be is a sympathy to the faith 11:31 stands of someone in the work place, 11:33 whether it's the government recognizing it, 11:34 whether it's the employee, employer or a union 11:38 if such exists that we don't want 11:41 that to be standing in the way of accommodation. 11:42 Well, that's exactly this, 11:44 whether or not you an employer or a union, 11:48 you know, you're doing God's work by watching out for 11:51 and being concerned about the faith of your employees. 11:55 An employee who cares about God 11:57 will be a superior employee. 12:00 Writing to early Seventh-day Adventists, 12:03 Ellen White warned of the complications 12:07 arising from union membership. 12:09 It's a little hard to get into the mind set of that time 12:12 because there's no question 12:14 that even then unions were functioning 12:17 as I counter balance to the interest of Capital. 12:20 But reading specifically 12:22 what she said to Seventh-day Adventists 12:24 and warning about the in time. 12:26 It's a salutary warning that an organization 12:32 that can actually inhibit a choice, 12:35 a person's religious choice for accommodation is not good. 12:40 It's obvious that the violence adopt in the company 12:43 of union activity is a problematic for a Christian 12:47 and it's particularly important to realize 12:52 that she said a phenomenon of the end times 12:55 will be "bundles together for the burning." 12:59 Confederacies that limit peoples choice 13:03 and expose people to a common thinking 13:06 that opposes to God's way. 13:09 This is our warning for this time. 13:11 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2014-12-17