Welcome back to the Liberty
Insider. Before the break I
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was discussing with guest
Bruce Cameron a very interesting
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dynamic that he's observed
in Islamic expectations of the
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Mahdi, the 12th Imam.
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In fact you say it much better
than I do. I call it Mahdi
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because I'm less of a linguist
obviously than you are, Lincoln.
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But where we ended, we said all
right this makes sense, if you
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were Satan, to say this is when
I will appear. So it seems to me
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that Seventh-day Adventists
should keep their eyes open
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not simply to Sunday laws but
maybe more importantly to the
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false messiah's coming.
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Well as importantly. I wouldn't
want to diminish Sunday laws.
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I mean we've been quite
consistent from our early days
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as Adventists and biblical
exposition and study to see
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probably the greatest
test of loyalty to God over his
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commandments and epitomize
how we regard the Sabbath
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that he's
dedicated. Oh yeah I'm not...
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But I think as an advanced sign
and as a dynamic perhaps to even
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bring in the final Sunday law
with severe penalties something
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like the appearance
of the Mahdi could do it.
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Precisely. I'm not challenging
the eschatology. Exactly so
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go ahead. Back
to where you began.
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Ahmadinejad the president of
Iran twice now, you mentioned
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one occasion, but twice he's
gotten up at the U.N. and riffed
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on about the Mahdi. There's
something I think you know but
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our viewers need to know, that
it isn't just that there's an
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expectation of him to come. That
most Muslims understand. But an
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extreme group that Ahmadinejad
belongs to have taken the
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deduction that you could apply
to Christianity and the return
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of Christ. But they actually
have formalized this and it's
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this way: Since the Mahdi is
to come at a time of great chaos
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when sort of everything is
blowing up and it's the moment
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of crisis and then he appears
supernaturally. They believe
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that you can create that moment
and he will come. Now that's
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different. Yes! We have a
dialogue within the Adventist
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church. I remember once I
was preaching in Australia and I
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quoted Ellen White saying that
Christ could have come before
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this and he's delayed
for different reasons and one
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important reason is his
followers haven't yet made the
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proclamation that's required
to lighten the world with the
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expectation of his coming before
he comes. So there's a dynamic
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there. I mean it's biblical.
But that's a different story and
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I think it's a little more toxic
in this manipulation of the
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Mahdi's coming where all you
have to really do, well let's
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get more than hypothetical, is
send a nuclear bomb to destroy
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Tel Aviv, probably not Jerusalem
destroy Tel Aviv and the
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resulting big bang
will conjure up the Mahdi.
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Well, Lincoln, that is precisely
it. Where I was going with this
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is to say, well if in fact
the coming of the false messiah
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brings in the end of days,
it seems to me purely reasonable
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that this could happen in
12 months because of the very
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reasons that you are talking
about. You have the President of
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Iran invoking the coming of the
Mahdi. Three weeks ago it came
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out that Iran is now refining
uranium to 20%. They used to say
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we're doing this for energy
production and a nuclear power
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plant. That only takes 2 or
3% refinement. So they're now
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working on weapons grade
refining and this is their view:
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That the Mahdi will come in all
of this confusion and difficulty
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and problems. So let's look
at this from a Muslim's point of
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view in the Middle East. What is
going on? You've got nations of
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the West invading Iraq, you've
got them in Afghanistan, you
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have this turmoil in Egypt where
they think the United States was
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behind the presidency of Mubarak
and so you just feel like you're
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under attack. There's a new
Muslim film out that is believed
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to either be produced by Iran
or the friends of Iran and the
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thesis of this is that the Mahdi
comes in the middle of all these
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problems, and the problems
that they point out are what are
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going on right now. And they say
in this film the time for the
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Mahdi, what we have waited for
centuries for, is here, this is
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now. I'm reading from the Shahe
Muslim book, 41, number 6985;
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it says this: The prophet said,
meaning, of course, the prophet
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Muhammad, the last hour would
not come unless the Muslims will
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fight against the Jews, and the
Muslims will kill them until the
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Jews would hide themselves
behind a stone or a tree and the
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stone or the tree would say,
"Muslim" or "Servant of Allah,
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there is a Jew behind
me, come and kill him.
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" Well what's being
said is that followers
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of Allah will
supernaturally be aided in
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killing the Jews; trees
will point out Jews, stones will
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point out Jews.
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As I remember that's a
quote directly from the Quran.
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It's in the second half.
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So what have we got here. We've
got a president of Iran whose
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invoking the coming of the
Mahdi and victory, a guy who is
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refining nuclear
weapons or uranium to
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create nuclear
weapons and this belief
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that they will be
supernaturally aided in
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killing Jews which will usher
in the coming of the Mahdi.
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Yeah, it certainly gives
you pause to think a little.
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Now I need to
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give some disclaimers. Many
disclaimers. No I agree with you
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but you know we need to cover
our tracks a little. This is
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a program for religious liberty.
On the matter of religious
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liberty we grant perfect for
Muslims, Buddhists, Christians,
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whatever, to believe and to
practice. I think that should be
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a given.. That is
a given. I don't give
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religious freedom to kill people
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With religious freedom, we
have every right to critique and
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analyze other belief systems and
in this case we're pointing out
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not so much an error. From
a Christian prophetic point of
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I think there is a clear error
here. But there's an expectation
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there that's very dangerous
in Islam. You know there's been
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some false constructs over the
years through Christianity in
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the dark ages when the black
death was around. There was all
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sorts of apocalyptic movements
within Christianity that were
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fueled more by panic and
observing their surroundings
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and projecting it on Bible
prophecy. You know we're not
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opposed to Muslims nor do I
believe that every Muslim thinks
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exactly as
Ahmadinejad. I would hope not.
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Every Muslim that reads
the Quran and the Hadis has a
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certain affinity with
that thinking just any Bible
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believing Christian knows that
Jesus said he would come back
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again. But in this particular
sect that Ahmadinejad represents
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I think there is a
toxic tendency to sort of make
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prophecy come true. When I
was listening to you talk and
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present this I thought the Bible
says about Jesus coming in the
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fullness of time, the
appropriate moment, and coming
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up to the year 2000 I thought
that that was a moment because
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there were so many millennial
expectations not just by
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Christians but by many groups
political and religious that I
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thought something must happen.
And the dynamic of antagonism
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between the U.S. and Iran and as
you say the Arab Spring and just
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the breakout of revolutionary
fervor, I think it's sort of
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becoming self-fulfilling.
Something is likely to happen
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and this belief of the Iranians
or at least an element within
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the Iranians could quite quickly
bring us into a huge military
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conflict and then on a religious
sense could usher in an
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appearance by Satan himself
with that great deception.
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See I agree with you on this.
The point is not to set dates,
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the point is not to be an
alarmist. The point is to say
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look... Well we need to be
sober minded about things and
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face facts; not think well it's
not going to happen. What did
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the Bible say? All things have
continued from the beginning.
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They haven't. This is not
business as usual. This is a
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very aberrant time of history.
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Especially when you look at this
and you say we're in a box here.
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How can we get out of the box?
Well the United States and the
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west are now trying to place
sanctions on Iran to deter them.
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I doubt that you're going to
deter them from bringing in the
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messiah. That's a very high goal
But if you live in Israel, it
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takes 10 minutes for a missile
to come from Iran to Israel.
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Are they going to take a chance
on losing millions of their
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citizens? No.
We're at a very volatile
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period of world's history
and middle east's history
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particularly and I do think
what did Jesus say? When you see
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these things begin to happen
lift up your eyes because your
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redemption draweth nigh.
And a conflict on Sunday worship
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whether it's instigated by
American protestants, they could
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well join with it, but more
probably some divine personage
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as it says really brings the
test and you need to why you're
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doing what you do and understand
the basis of your faith.
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One last thing, we're getting
very close on time for this
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program, believe it or not,
Islam does not teach Sunday.
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That's not a sacred day.
This would be an important
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pronouncement if this Mahdi said
well reverence my day, Sunday,
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wouldn't it?
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See that is a big question mark
in what I'm suggesting because
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you say well if a Mahdi comes he
will exalt Friday because that's
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the day of worship for
Islam. When Satan comes and
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impersonates Christ, he's
not going to say I'm the Mahdi.
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He's going to say I'm the Mahdi
plus I'm the messiah plus I'm
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everyone's lord who has
come. So what's he got? He's got
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Friday, Saturday and Sunday
to choose between. Is it so hard
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to think that he'd choose Sunday
That happened long ago when
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the church was... But
it's the day of the sun and
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inherently man looks toward the
sun as a source of energy and
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power and so if a being comes
just like Cortez and Pizarro
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and the others came to their
civilization, they were seen as
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travelers from beyond the sun.
I think it could appear the same
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way. See that's it, that's it.
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So what's the point here. The
point here is not to say well
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Islam is true, but if many
Islamics believe this then the
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bottom line is that we as
Christians should say I need to
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be alert. I need to read my
Bible, I need to be ready, I
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need to be looking for my
Lord to return. That's the goal
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it seems to me in
pursuing this line of prophecy.
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It's all too easy for Christians
to forget sometimes at least
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that being a Christian is
all about Christ. I think for
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Seventh-day Adventists that's a
little harder to drift into that
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direction because we are living
in an expectant attitude of the
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soon return of Jesus Christ.
But it is worth remembering that
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there are other groups that
have an expectation if not of a
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return, then of an appearance.
This discussion of the Mahdi and
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his return, albeit in
association with the return
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of Jesus, not the Christ,
according to the Quran, should
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be a sobering thought. We need
to be in expectation of the true
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return of the true Savior of the
world. We need to recognize that
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perhaps other expectations
can create a false reality and
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perhaps deceive many. We
need to encourage others,
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particularly our Muslim brothers
and sisters around the world to
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see the need not of a Mahdi but
of a Savior, of a soon-returning
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Jesus Christ in
the clouds of glory.
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For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed
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