Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Jon Gratz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000164
|
00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:25 This is the program that will bring you 00:26 up-to-date news, views, 00:28 and discussion on religious liberty events 00:30 and developments in the United States 00:32 and also around the world. 00:34 My name is Lincoln Steed 00:36 and I'm the editor of Liberty Magazine 00:39 and the host of this program 00:41 and my guest is Dr. John Graz. Hi, Lincoln. 00:43 Head of the Public Affairs 00:46 and Religious Liberty Department 00:47 for the world headquarters 00:48 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:50 as well as few other things. 00:52 You know, even I love discussing history, 00:54 at least I love discussing with you 00:56 and I know we can get quite into it. 00:59 I think somewhat apocryphal story of Rome 01:03 burning as a result of some sort of civil disturbance. 01:07 And the Emperor Nero fiddling, 01:11 playing his instrument rather casually as it burned 01:15 and then afterwards this is the matter of history. 01:17 We know, that he blamed the Christians 01:20 as somehow inciting or starting igniting the fire 01:24 with no evidence that we can even find 01:26 as we look back. Sure. 01:29 Have you noticed how easy it is in arrear 01:31 we have thousands of years, 01:33 almost removed from that or getting on for 2000 years? 01:37 But-- But it means we need to find guilty people. 01:40 We need to find guilty and-- 01:42 And this is what the case of Nero. 01:43 You know he needed to show to people 01:45 that he was not behind 01:46 because the rumors were spread about him being behind 01:51 because he wanted to build a new city. 01:53 That's clearly what he used the event for. 01:56 He had an agenda. Yeah, he had an agenda. 01:58 And he had to defend himself 01:59 because it became very, very dangerous for him 02:02 and he had to find a group of people 02:05 who were very-- who were not very popular, 02:07 the Christian were not and to say 02:10 these are these people, they are terrorists, 02:12 they're dangerous people. 02:14 They want to put down our empire 02:16 and we have to arrest them. 02:18 These are the guilty party. 02:21 We have to really to condemn 02:24 and to kill to execute them, to liquidate them. 02:28 I know it is the fact of history 02:30 that dynamic was at work. 02:31 And we living through history now 02:34 and I try to observe things 02:36 and see parallels to how human beings 02:39 have acted at other times. 02:40 And it seems undeniable to me. 02:42 Since 9/11 or starting with the events of 9/11, 02:46 a real panic happened, 02:49 but there're many players with many different agendas. 02:52 And I get the distinct feeling there are certain elements 02:56 even within democratic regimes like the United States. 03:00 That might not see themselves cynical, 03:03 but they have a prior felt need to bring 03:07 certain restrictions in, 03:09 and this panic is conveniently given the moment for that. 03:14 And it would just be a matter of observation, 03:16 but for the fact 03:17 there is a religious element on this conflict. 03:20 And I feel very concerned that first of all-- 03:25 Muslims generally in the United States 03:27 come under a cloud where they can be swept up 03:30 in the anti-terrorism laws 03:31 and as this panic continues and more and more 03:35 extreme applications with a need 03:37 to ferret out the enemy within are applied. 03:40 We might find that other people 03:42 who have either religious views 03:43 or religious/political views 03:45 that are out of the norm of even a western democracy 03:49 might have if not a severe penalty 03:52 might have a sort of gimlet gaze of a government system 03:58 descend on them and wrongly 04:00 see them as the starters of the fire. 04:02 Yeah, you know we saw that in Europe 04:04 just about twenty-- 04:06 fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. 04:08 When you know the European 04:10 started to fight against cults and sect and so on. 04:14 Where they even produced a list, 04:16 you know an official list of dangerous sect-- 04:18 In France in particular. 04:19 In France, Belgium, some things like that, 04:22 you know, Austria, and some other country 04:24 where really the target really just minorities. 04:28 And as you cannot study 300 or more groups, 04:31 you know, you simplify. 04:33 And at the end, 04:34 you know you create a kind of attack on group, 04:38 which has nothing to do with being dangerous. 04:41 They are just different. 04:42 And you establish, you set up a profile. 04:46 If you're member of this group or another group, 04:48 you are becoming dangerous for the state. 04:50 There is no proof, 04:51 but they've no time to investigate 04:53 and they put you on the list. 04:55 And being on the list, 04:56 you become dangerous for all people. 04:59 And you become a kind of guilty side 05:01 and if something happens, 05:02 something bad happen, people will look at you. 05:06 You are the responsible. You're the guilty side. 05:09 We've to solve the problem with you. 05:11 You've gotten to my concern in a nutshell 05:13 and something happened recently 05:16 or development in U.S. government recently, 05:18 so that brings it to the floor again. 05:20 It would seem very pedestrian, but toward the end of 2011, 05:27 military appropriations build, 05:29 actually the defense authorization act 05:31 went through the senate and at this moment 05:35 as I record this hasn't yet gone through the congress 05:40 and it's just mundane stuff. 05:41 I read it or read parts of it, very long document. 05:43 It deals with weapons systems, 05:45 about discrimination or defending against 05:49 discrimination in the arm forces themselves, 05:53 integrating guys and so on. 05:55 But then I forgot the item numbers, 05:58 but there's too little, two or three paragraph sections 06:01 that have been discussed a lot in the media. 06:04 And I say something to the effect 06:06 that the war on terrorism now is to involve 06:11 the whole world including the homeland. 06:14 And that the military 06:16 when directed are to detain indefinitely without trial 06:23 for as long as they want indefinitely. 06:25 Anybody that they suspect including citizens 06:29 and that's an amazing provision, 06:32 which if you allow 06:34 the good intention of a democratic state 06:37 which has a constitution 06:38 and other specific antedated laws 06:41 that would counter that, 06:45 but if so inclined in an emergency 06:47 it lays the groundwork for exactly 06:49 what we're talking about. 06:51 Certainly Muslims, but also out of the normal mainstream, 06:57 say Christians, and other religionist 06:58 who perhaps have given the charities that have some-- 07:03 Connection. Loose connection 07:04 with what the government is unhappy with. 07:07 Maybe gone on a website, that sort of creates a profile 07:10 that you have an interest in certain things. 07:12 It could be rounded up by the military for no cause, 07:15 but you don't have a trial, you don't have a charge, 07:18 which are against all the western norms. 07:20 You know, when you have the situation of crisis, 07:22 it has always been difficult to maintain really a 07:25 good protection for freedom. 07:27 Because humanly speaking that's not easy to serve you. 07:31 On one side you need to protect citizen 07:33 and they ask to be protected. 07:35 The other side you have to keep freedom, 07:38 but how can you keep-- 07:39 it mean there is a tension and sometime you know 07:42 because the crisis is strong 07:44 and the pressure of the public opinion is strong too, 07:47 you have to take responsibility 07:49 and very often you know, you arrest the wrong people 07:53 or you persecute the wrong people. 07:55 Because you need to come with result 07:57 and this is why we have to be really careful. 07:59 Absolutely and we're dealing with fine art human bodies 08:03 whether it's in the United States, 08:05 France, or any-- 08:06 or if that matter in the Middle East 08:08 with good intentions, people are fallible. 08:10 They are not all knowing, but when you create a panic, 08:14 when the enemy is seen within, 08:15 the battleground is the homeland 08:18 as they are saying here for the first time legally, 08:22 anything could happen and it troubles me. 08:23 There's a quote that I wrote down 08:25 from somebody writing online the other day 08:27 and I thought this was very good. 08:29 He says, actually it was-- 08:32 they attributed to Commander William Adama. 08:36 Don't know who that is. 08:37 Whether it's made up name or not. 08:38 But he says, "there's a reason 08:40 you separate military and the police. 08:42 One fights the enemies of the state 08:44 the other serves and protects the people. 08:47 When military becomes both, 08:49 then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." 08:53 I'm hoping that doesn't develop in our time. 08:55 But as I say, religion is the not invisible 09:00 but the often unacknowledged element of this. 09:03 Yeah, and problem also you know you have-- 09:05 you have the pressure of the people on the authorities. 09:08 Always, here the people say we need to have result. 09:11 We need to be more protected. 09:13 And of course you know, 09:15 that's not easy as I said to find a solution 09:18 and you have to show the people that yes, 09:19 you will do something. You are protecting them. 09:22 You have to arrest people 09:24 because you have to show that you are really doing it. 09:26 You know, in some part of the world 09:28 like in Central Asia, 09:29 you have less and less religious freedom today. 09:33 We had more religious freedom 20 years ago. 09:36 Now it's more and more difficult 09:37 especially for religious minority, why? 09:40 Because you know the government said, 09:42 we have to protect from-- 09:44 religious radical terrorist, religious terrorists. 09:47 But they cannot say just on this side, 09:50 just on the Muslim are a danger. 09:52 They have to prove also to the people 09:54 that you know they're looking also toward the Christian 09:58 and of course looking to the Christian 10:00 they take the small minorities. 10:02 And the small minorities 10:04 are becoming labeled dangerous. Why? 10:07 Because they're small minority, 10:09 not because they're really dangerous. 10:11 Yeah, and I don't believe 10:13 that generally speaking this is done 10:14 with any sort of official malice toward groups. 10:17 It's just that you create a legal hazard like this 10:22 where the sort of an indiscriminate suspicion, 10:25 people are gonna be rounded up for things 10:26 that normally the state should smile upon even. 10:31 I think the U.S. at least pays good lip service 10:35 still to individual initiative for people. 10:38 That the internet is not like China or other places. 10:40 It is periodically shutdown. It's opened. 10:43 But I know that we likely come to a stage 10:46 where since everything can be tracked, 10:47 your internet activities, your travel and all the rest 10:51 could create a sort of a damning profile 10:53 that could mesh nicely with this idea. 10:55 Will this person show any interest 10:57 in this level of activity? 10:59 Or you know even just one of the find out 11:01 about Jihadism for example. 11:04 Most people are not very curious, 11:05 but curiosity shouldn't be a crime. 11:08 And I'm afraid that we're heading toward a conflict 11:11 where it, of course it blurs the civil behavior 11:16 and the religious behavior. 11:17 But we're at all could sort of create a funny construct. 11:21 The other day someone e-mailed me 11:22 when they knew that this law looked like 11:25 it was going through with this bill. 11:27 With basically changes in the law and they said, 11:29 sounds good to me. 11:31 So I blipped them back and I said well, 11:35 maybe when there is some violent incident 11:38 at a shopping mall near you 11:40 and the military detail comes through 11:42 your neighborhood hunting for someone 11:44 that have got a tip on. And your neighbor says oh, 11:48 you know, that person 11:49 I know that they're a bit out of the norm, 11:50 they say religious --- 11:52 They go to church on Saturday. 11:53 Yeah, I said and they round you up and said, 11:55 well, maybe we'll come to you for advice 11:57 and see if you can bail us out of the stockade. 11:59 Yeah, this is you know, what you say-- 12:01 Yeah, I think it could be a chain of causality 12:03 that nobody really is picking on you. 12:05 But you just sort of swept up in the general suspicion. 12:09 Yeah, and this you know, people always believe that 12:12 I'm not concerned. 12:13 You know, but, yeah, when religious freedom 12:16 when you have less freedom, we're all concerned. 12:19 That's my view with it. 12:21 I know that the intent of this law 12:23 is to zero in on certain radical Islamists 12:27 who have a Jihadist view 12:29 and I'm not comfortable with them at all. 12:31 But to change the whole social legal construct 12:35 to sweep a few people within us into a net 12:38 is very dangerous, I think. 12:39 And religious freedom and civil liberties 12:42 depend upon keeping an open mind 12:44 and as open a system as possible. 12:46 Not the tightest system 12:47 as possible to filter everyone out is open. 12:51 Anyhow we've come to the need for a break. 12:53 We'll be back after a moment 12:55 and we'll continue this but maybe branch off 12:57 into some other areas too. Thank you. 13:07 One hundred years, a long time to do anything, 13:11 much less publish a magazine, but this year "Liberty," 13:15 the Seventh-day Adventist voice of religious freedom 13:18 celebrates 100 years of doing what it does best, 13:22 collecting, analyzing, and reporting 13:24 the ebb and flow of religious expression around the world. 13:28 Issue after issue, Liberty has taken 13:30 on the tough assignments. 13:32 Tracking down threats to religious freedom and exposing 13:35 the work of the devil in every corner of the globe. 13:38 Governmental interference, personal attacks, 13:40 corporate assaults, even religious freedom issues 13:43 sequestered within the Church community 13:45 itself have been clearly and honestly exposed. 13:49 Liberty exists for one purpose, 13:51 to help God's people maintain that all important separation 13:55 of church and state while recognizing the dangers 13:58 inherent in such a struggle. 14:00 During the past century, 14:01 Liberty has experienced challenges of it's own, 14:04 but it remains on the job. 14:06 Thanks to the inspired leadership of a long line 14:09 of dedicated Adventist editors, 14:10 three of whom represent almost 14:12 half of the publications' existence 14:14 and the foresight of a little woman from New England. 14:17 One hundred years of struggle, 100 years of victories, 14:21 religious freedom isn't just about political machines 14:25 and cultural prejudices. 14:26 It's about people fighting for the right to serve the God 14:30 they love as their hearts and the Holy Spirit dictate. 14:35 Thanks to the prayers and generous support 14:37 of Seventh-day Adventists everywhere. 14:39 Liberty will continue to accomplish its work 14:41 of providing timely information, 14:43 spirit filled inspiration, and heaven sent encouragement 14:46 to all who long to live and work in a world bound 14:51 together by the God ordained bonds of religious freedom. 15:05 Welcome back to The Liberty Insider, 15:07 Before the break with guest Dr. Graz, I was riffing on. 15:12 This is the best way I could put to about a troubling 15:15 addition to a military appropriations bill. 15:18 And I don't want to panic anyone 15:21 and you know and try to characterize 15:22 the United States of some, 15:24 you know, but even that sounds better, 15:26 Banana Republic or, you know, out their regime. 15:28 But it does illustrate to me with a very real threat 15:32 that is panicked even the legislators. 15:35 How we can be overzealous to protect against that threat 15:38 and create an even larger threat 15:40 I think to religious and civil expression. 15:42 Which would be very bad 15:44 because still the U.S. is the-- 15:46 I should say almost the only country around the world, 15:49 which is really still defend religious freedom. 15:52 You know, putting religious freedom in the agenda 15:55 when they have meeting with other government. 15:58 You don't have that with other country. 16:00 They don't care about religious freedom. 16:01 But still in America, you know, 16:03 the government and the institution 16:05 are still considering religious freedom 16:08 as part of the heritage of the republic. 16:11 And of course if one day, 16:13 you know, we can imagine if one day the U.S. give up 16:17 these principles of religious freedom, 16:19 it would be a disaster-- For the great rollback. 16:22 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 16:23 I don't see any other countries, 16:24 you know, who can say that 16:26 this is part of our heritage. 16:28 You have other countries around the world like Brazil. 16:31 Like some other countries 16:33 where you know, you've really a lot of religious freedom. 16:36 But it's not part really of their heritage 16:39 from the beginning of the history. 16:41 In America the difference is, 16:43 when you go back to the pioneer 16:45 you see religious freedom. 16:46 When you go back to the origin 16:48 of the history of the republic, 16:50 you have religious freedom. 16:51 It has not been a fight you know, 16:53 a battle where people were killed for their religion. 16:56 It has been accepted from the beginning. 16:58 In other countries 17:00 it was the result of religious wars 17:03 of a lot of crimes and so on. 17:05 That's makes things very difficult. 17:06 Yeah, it's a very different historical dynamic. 17:09 And I agree with you absolutely, 17:11 of course almost the flipside 17:13 of what you're saying about the present strong leadership 17:15 of the U.S. for religious and civil freedoms 17:18 is that when the U.S. gets it wrong 17:20 that wrong model gets picked up, yeah. 17:22 And so as the U.S. in an overzealous effort, 17:25 I think on occasion maybe restricts 17:29 the potential for freedom. 17:31 And that would be picked up. 17:32 I heard a very interesting debate recently on the B.B.C. 17:37 said the Doha Debate. 17:38 So I think it was from Doha. 17:39 Because a lot of Middle Easterners participated, 17:42 wonderful debate. 17:43 And they were representatives of the Syrian government 17:45 and they made very direct parallels 17:48 to what they're doing 17:49 and things that are being done in the past to the U.S. 17:51 to restrict violent demonstrations. 17:57 And they said, do you think 17:58 the United States would standby 18:00 when people were trying to by violence 18:02 and bring down the government? 18:03 Well that sounds good on the surface. 18:05 Other differences, 18:07 what is the regime trying to perpetuate? 18:09 And I do think the United States as a liberal democracy, 18:13 is protecting something far more worth protecting. 18:16 But we need to recognize that all human systems 18:20 when challenged tend to revert to fairly extreme-- 18:23 And one of the-- And we need to resist there. 18:24 One of the factor of a new factor today 18:27 about religious freedom and the level of the U.S. 18:30 as defending religious freedom around the world is, 18:33 you know, the presence 18:34 and the influence of the U.S. is going down today, 18:38 unfortunately for human right and religious freedom 18:41 is going down and down. 18:43 It means you don't have-- 18:45 and when you go to the United Nation, 18:46 you can see that. 18:47 You know, China is the number 1 probably. 18:50 Then you've all the other new countries and altogether, 18:53 you know they are very strong and it means that, 18:57 it's more and more difficult for the U.S. 18:58 to defend to put religious freedom 19:00 on the top as a priority because you know, 19:03 they don't have the power, 19:07 the influence they had in the past. 19:09 Or even the security that comes from 19:11 financial and trade strength. Oh, yeah. 19:13 You know, when you have-- 19:14 you need the billion dollars to pay to the China. 19:17 You cannot say to China, 19:18 "Hey, you have to follow what we believe." 19:20 I think that's in a nutshell why Hillary Clinton 19:22 who's generally I think has done the right things. 19:25 But early on, she told China 19:28 that they wouldn't be putting 19:30 human rights top of the agenda. 19:32 Of course you're little off to the side because we need-- 19:34 Because China will pay your debts first. 19:36 Yes, so I think there's a compromising 19:38 dynamic the country is needed to be-- 19:41 But in spite of that Lincoln, 19:42 I think really we should you know if the U.S. should 19:45 keep their tradition, their heritage, 19:48 because this heritage of freedom 19:51 made the U.S. as a big power, as a great power 19:54 and when you're great power, 19:56 but you've nothing to share with other, 19:58 just money, you're no longer a great power. 20:01 Has to be a moral vision. 20:02 You've to-- yes, and also you know 20:05 we should not underestimate the principle 20:10 or the value of freedom. 20:12 Many million, billion people are living in country 20:14 where they have no freedom 20:17 or they believe they don't have a freedom. 20:19 For them when they hear, 20:21 they hear someone or a government 20:23 defending the principle of freedom, 20:26 religious freedom, freedom of expression, 20:28 like it is something fabulous that they dream about that. 20:32 Even if they have no voice 20:34 because they have no freedom, 20:35 we should not forget that they exist 20:38 and they're million and million, 20:39 million around the world-- 20:40 U.S. represents the last great hope for mankind. 20:43 Some famous person is, but I think that's very true. 20:46 And I know prophetically Seventh-day Adventist 20:50 pick up from Daniel and Revelation 20:52 the very end of the whole human story 20:55 powers like the United States and perhaps a power 20:59 called the United States might descend 21:01 into some sort of religious repression. 21:04 But we haven't reached that point yet. 21:06 And until we get there 21:07 I think we need to cry foul 21:09 whenever it looks like it might. 21:10 And it's a sin. You know, it's a sin for us. 21:12 It's a sin for us 21:13 and as individual and as a church. 21:16 You know the fight, 21:18 the battle for religious freedom, 21:20 it's a great opportunity to assure 21:23 and to share with people where we are. 21:25 You know, in this battle for religious freedom, 21:28 there are two sides you know. 21:29 You're on the side of God who gave religious freedom 21:33 and on the side of the enemy of the devil 21:36 who oppressed people, who persecute people. 21:40 And you know, it's a matter 21:41 where do you want to be and even if we are persecuted, 21:45 you know, it's good to be persecuted for the right. 21:49 Oh, for the right thing. 21:50 For the right thing. 21:51 You and I have spoken about this-- 21:52 You give a message at the same time. 21:54 I run the risk when I was talking to religious groups 21:56 about religious liberty saying 21:58 that we can't expect the religious liberty department 22:00 to remove all difficulties 22:01 from holding a particular faith for you. 22:04 Jesus said all who live a godly life 22:07 will suffer persecution. Will be suffering. 22:08 Not necessarily from the government, 22:10 but just to be living correctly in front of God, 22:14 offend certain people and you'll have harassment. 22:17 And in defending and protecting religious freedom, 22:19 we also show which side we are. 22:22 You know, we're with on the side of God 22:24 because God is the God of freedom. 22:25 That is not just only the fight 22:28 that we believe that we'll change the world. 22:30 We're also sign of the kingdom of God. 22:33 It means we cannot accept the fact 22:36 that people could be discriminated and persecuted 22:40 just because to have another opinion 22:42 and that is the sign of the kingdom of the God. 22:45 Freedom is the sign of the kingdom of God. 22:48 As far as to how peoples and even nations respond, 22:52 there's an interesting dynamic that in a time of stress, 22:55 they'll compromise very easily like in Jesus day, 22:58 the leaders of the Jewish people made a comment 23:02 that in fact it was Caiphus 23:05 and he's the one who made the comment, 23:06 better that one man should perish, yeah. 23:08 Or die than the nation should perish. 23:10 And we can easily slip into that. 23:12 Well, better and getting this mortal threat 23:16 from outside of the U.S. that a few freedoms be restricted, 23:18 but we're about a good thing. 23:20 Let's--it's always-- And you'll have the majority. 23:23 The majority of people will support 23:24 this point of view, right. 23:25 So it's true that things don't always present 23:29 as absolutely black and white. 23:31 But to accept too much grey is to heading into trouble. 23:35 But you know in the middle ages, 23:38 we're talking about repression and government responses, 23:40 no question of the middle ages 23:41 that was brought to a fine pitch where, 23:45 you know, often-- well in Spain 23:48 under the threat there of the Islamic invasions, 23:52 how they persecuted 23:55 the Christian dissidents and Jews-- 23:57 Muslim, Jews-- Muslims as well. 23:59 Yeah. Yeah. 24:00 There was real military issue at play. 24:03 The security the state was not so certain. 24:06 But looking back on, 24:07 we see just horrible religious persecution. 24:09 You have always a good reason, 24:11 you know, to suppress or restrict religious freedom. 24:15 You know, coming back 24:16 to what happened 20 years ago in Europe. 24:19 When you read article in a press and report, 24:22 you know, they said, like in France, 24:24 they said the government 24:26 or people from the government say, 24:27 you know, they are five hundred thousand 24:29 members of cults and sect in France. 24:33 And of course reading the article, 24:35 it was like if you said 24:36 you have an army of five hundred thousand people 24:40 all united, ready to takeover the government. 24:44 That was just you know these people 24:45 did not know each other. 24:47 They had no organization to be together, 24:49 that was totally divided, opposing each other. 24:53 That was not a one army, 24:54 but it was presented like that, yes. 24:56 It means, you know, people-- 24:58 and of course after people are scared. 25:01 Because you know, one thing happened in white 25:03 and other thing happened 25:05 and they say that we have to defend ourselves 25:07 because we are attacked. 25:09 We're to defend and this is the way, 25:11 to good way to manipulate the people 25:14 and public opinion, yeah. I agree with you. 25:17 It reminds me not to prove the same point. 25:20 But you know Hitler's scathing comment about Roman Catholics 25:25 and the popes backing in World War II, 25:27 you know, how many divisions has the pope got. 25:31 People of faith, there are huge number, 25:33 but they're not dedicated 25:35 that I can see from any record of history 25:38 towards necessarily upholding 25:40 or destroying any civil system. 25:42 People of true faith are dedicated 25:44 to that faith viewpoint that ultimately is transcended. 25:47 So they're no-- 25:48 And sometime the authorities create the problem. 25:51 Because, you know, people have no relation between themselves 25:54 but when they are threatened, 25:56 they tend to build relation between them, yeah. 25:59 And that's not a good way to accuse them. 26:03 We discussed the Arab spring and revolutionary fervor. 26:08 And there's no question 26:09 that's all things are shaken in turmoil, 26:12 religion is part of the mix. 26:14 And the best thing I can say is the state 26:17 needs to keep the state matters 26:18 and people of faith need to keep their faith 26:20 Yeah. Separate-- 26:22 And it's another way of stating 26:23 I think the separation of church and state 26:25 is a wonderful protective mechanism. Yeah. 26:28 And we shouldn't muddle the two. 26:29 Yes and it is very important to maintain 26:32 this principle of separation between church and state. 26:35 And also remember that every human being 26:39 has the right to freedom 26:41 and every human being believers or not 26:44 have the right to religious freedom. 26:47 It's worth remembering that the crucifixion of Christ 26:51 took place at the time of great political unrest. 26:54 In fact, only a few years later 26:56 when Saul later known as Paul rampaged 26:59 around the countryside arresting Christians 27:02 and hailing them off to prison. 27:04 He was probably seen by both Jewish 27:06 and the Roman authorities 27:08 as removing a seditious element 27:10 from this revolutionary context. 27:13 Of course, it was really only a few short years 27:16 later that Rome did indeed destroy Jerusalem 27:20 and put down the Jewish revolt. 27:22 But, that revolt was never the Christian movement. 27:27 And I think today in the United States 27:29 and the western world 27:31 as we are battling in the war on terrorism, 27:33 a radical form of a certain religious expression, 27:37 it's worth remembering 27:38 that there is valid spiritual expression by Muslims, 27:41 by Christians, and others that needs to be protected 27:45 and even when it speaks vigorously 27:47 about another spiritual reality, 27:49 it is not seditious, 27:51 it is not opposed to the present order. 27:53 It is presenting nearly a spiritual alternative. 27:56 We surely must protect the freedom of religion 28:00 and expression to protect every society. 28:04 This is Lincoln Steed for Liberty Insider. |
Revised 2014-12-17